Support and Chat thread for moms of early waking toddlers

[smum]

Hi Layla:

Really thanks for your help & concern. Two days ago, after gotting only 75mins nap all day, I put him down at 6:30 and he slept until 6:10. But yesterday and today he began to wake up earlier (5:30am) even if his daytime nap is less than 2hrs. I also notice his daytime naps are not in good shapes. I'm quite confused now, not knowing what to do next.

* day before yesterday*

6:30pm-6:10am
10:05-10:55am (50min, I cut it)
2:10-3:15 (1hr05min, I didn't cut it)
7:30pm-6:45am (5:30am NW, but settled at 6am-6:10am, total:10hr40min)

*yesterday*

6:45am wake up
10:05-10:45am  (35-40min, I didn't cut it)
1:55-3:05 (1hr05min, I didn't cut it)
7:13pm-5:30am (10hr20min)

*today*
5:30am wake up
9:25am-10:05am  (am nap 40min, I didn't want to cut it but accidentally woke him up)
1:27pm-3:57pm (pm nap 1.5hr, I cut it)
7:30 bedtime (I just want to delay his bedtime a little bit, but it seemed to go too far. His A time is 20min increment. If I miss 4hr10min, then I need to wait another 20mins.)

Getting up at 6am is ok for me and I really don't mind earlier bedtime. The reason I want to tweak my lo's routine is I hope he can sleep more at night and will be better rested. I don't understand why earlier bedtime now brings his wake-up time earlier especially when his daytime sleep is reduced so much. (from 2hr30/50min to 1hr40/50min)

I'm also confused about when I should let him have his am nap b/c his wake-up time is not regular now, ranging from 5:20/30, 6:10, 6:30, 6:45(once), 7:00 (once).

I felt so bad this morning, but after my lo took a 1.5hr pm nap, I felt better. Everyday my feelings is high and low according to my lo's sleep condition. Do you have any suggestions as to how to continue this stressful sleep training?

[Layla]

What I used to do is keep the morning nap at the same time if my lo woke up anywhere from 5.30-6.30am. The morning nap was always at 9.30am. If my lo woke up from 6.3am onward, I used to to 1 nap for that day and put her down for that 1 nap at around 11am.

Everyday my feelings is high and low according to my lo's sleep condition. Do you have any suggestions as to how to continue this stressful sleep training?

I know exactly what you mean!!! I think if he's up early and content in the cot until 6am, its probably easier to accept that the wake up time will range during the transition (well with us it did alot too) . EW are common at this age and even when your lo is on 1 nap, he will go through stages of waking up earlier than usual.

I think acceptance is what got me through the 2-1 transition. Just knowing that its not going to last forever and that tomorrow is a new day! That was/is still my motto when things are tough...."this too shall pass".

Big HUGS!!!

[DebLillian]

Just when I thought we were reaching an agreement Lillian decided to shake things up   She went back to her old screaming from 4am on thing last night.  From 4-5:30 I just tried to get her back to sleep to no avail.  Ugh.  Prior to this pd/wo was working to get her back down.  I am going to try to keep positive...

Layla- I like the keeping the am nap at the same time thing!

[JenB1974]

We are in exactley the position with our DS - he is 2 yrs 3 months and very willful! For the last month he has been waking at somewhere between 4.45am and 5.15am which is a killer for my husband and I as we both work full time . His routine is typically:
Wake: 4.45-5.15
Nap: 12.30-1.30 (at creche)
Bed: 6.30pm (but takes 30mins to fall asleep)

I think I shall try the earlier bedtime as advised in other posts as we too tried a later bedtime and has not made any difference to waking! Yet he his yawning by 9am!! Any thoughts on his nap?   It is set by his creche so not sure if it is too much, although it's a bit of a vicious circle as by the time 12.30 come around he really needs the sleep!

Jen1974

[JenB1974]

WHat a night - after deciding to try early bedtime - 6 instead of 7 - DS got up at 2.10am but anaged to get him back to bed only to then wake at 4.45am and not wnat to get back to bed. I am reading other threads and from his normal routine in my previous post he is only getting 11 hours sleep in total. Should I be extending his sleep at the creche to 2 hours? I don' t know what to do - working full time and so SLEEP DEPRIVED!!!!!!! 

[Layla]

Jen, I do think that 1hr might not be enough and what I would try and do is have him put down for a nap earlier. Preferable around 11.30-12pm (no later than 12pm) and in that case you can aim for an earlier bedtime.

And yes, talk to daycare about trying to extend daytime sleep.... 1.5 hrs min

[annielm]

Hi all and (((((hugs))))), I feel like I could've written so many of your posts!  Layla's right, it WILL get better!!

LAYLA- I have a quick question, still battling the one nap monster  , but having a little success here and there.  and 

Anyhoo, I tried to PM you, but can't get into my PM's without my computer crashing each time.....
No idea what that's about.

So figured I'd ask on here as maybe it will help someone else on this thread, too.  I figured ds is now caught up as much as possible doing two hour naps a lot and 11 hours at night.  But, it still means we wake at 5am-ish.  So, I'm attempting the pm catnap to move bedtime ahead a little (he WILL NOT take a short am and long pm, probably because I can't get the times right, but who knows, really)

So the pm catnap is working a little so far !!!

My question is this.  Is there a BW normal rule of thumb for when to offer the pm catnap??

I put him down for 5 hours asleep after waking in the am, but am kind of at a loss as to when to offer the pm one.  Do I make sense?  I know that after about 20 minutes of catnap he is R E A D Y  for bed at 2 hours later MAX.

So I've been doing 5 hours a-time am (he needs a short am a-time, or has a touchy nap), wake him at 1 1/2 if need to, 20 minutes catnap at 4 1/2 hours later?

Ex:
6am wake (if the sleep gods allow it)
11am nap-12:40wake (on his own thus far)
4:50-5:10pm catnap (20 minutes)
7pm bedtime (falls asleep within 5-10 minutes!!!!)

I'm just gonna do this for a week or two hopefully, as I know he can do the schedule you suggested to me (5.5hrs a-time am, then 5 hours a-time pm), but the 6pm bedtime, 5am wakes are killing me!! 

I know he just needs his bedtime to be pushed along a little and then hopefully we can start to fall back into that great schedule you helped me figure out, but just an hour later!  I think I got very carried away with the early bedtimes to solve OT, and offered them for too long, resulting in consistent EW's.  I have to trust that he can do some of this on his own!

Anyway, thank you, and good luck everyone!!
LAYLA you rock!! 

Annie.

[JenB1974]

Well we have seen an improvement with our DS whereby he now does not seem to be waking in the middle of the night. He seems to be naturally sleeping 1 1/4 hrs for nap at creche and we are putting him down at about 7pm. He is still waking at 5.am so I have been trying the W2S but not having much luck! I set my clock to 4am and go and move him about a bit but he is still waking at 5am. Tracy's books say that it's usually successful - I'm wondering whether I am moving him about enough? I think it says that they should be sort of awake - an tips from mums who have successfully done W2S would be great!

[DebLillian]

Jen- We did w2s with a bit of success to get us to 5am...  it's not worked to get her to sleep any later than that.  Did your LO sleep longer than 10hrs prior to these EWs?  Our DD seems to only be able to sleep 10hrs a night no matter what we do   When I did w2s I changed her diaper hoping that the fresh clean diaper would encourage her to sleep comfortably a bit longer.  Sorry I can't be of more help.  Good luck!

[mumtothree]

Hi Guys,

I think I need a bit of help with my 16 month old DS.  For the last four months or so he has been waking between 4 and 5 EVERY morning  . 
Some mornings he will wake up really happy and is quite content to chatter away for 15 minutes by himself, other mornings he wakes crying and I know he's still tired but just can't resettle - we've tried wi/wo with very little success. 
He is at daycare four days a week and they transitioned him to one nap about two months ago, initially this worked really well and he would sleep for 1.5 to 2 hours (normally needing to be resettled after an hour but still...pretty good for him!) but now he is only sleeping for 1 hour (I am trying to get them to work on this tho).   
On his days at home I find it really hard to keep him awake and he will generally have a morning nap of 20 -30 minutes and then have a pm nap of about 30mins to an hour. 
He is generally in bed by 6.30 at the latest (when I know he's not napped well I aim for 5/5.30), I have tried pushing his bedtime back but this doesn't change the EW's, I have also tried for a pm catnap on daycare days but still no difference.  He's getting a good 10-11.5 hours sleep a night - so I keep telling myself at least he is getting a decent sleep.   

Here's his daycare routine:
5 am wake
11.30/12 nap for 1 - 2 hours
5.30/6.30 bedtime (depends on length and time of midday nap)

At home his routine is more like:
5 am wake
9.30/10 nap for 30 mins
1.30/2 nap for 30mins to an hour
5.30/6.30 bedtime

I know when he's teething as then we get NW's but right now (touch wood) things seem ok.  He definitely isn't cold as his room is kept cosy and warm all night and he doesn't often guzzle his bottle down as soon as he wakes so I don't think it's hunger that's waking him.  Do you think he could be OT?  Sometimes I think daycare is overstimulating him and he can't settle there very easily but I'm not sure what I can do about that  . 

I'm wondering f I have to resign myself to the fact that DS is just an early bird and although I'm starting to get used to the EW's now that winter's here it's getting much harder to roll myself out of bed...I'm ready to try anything and look forward to hearing your ideas

Thanks heaps,
Bhumi

[JenB1974]

Thanks Deb - before "the 2's" he seemed to go through the night from 7pm-6am and 6am seems fine now! Especially as last night he woke at 4.45am!!! Talking to another mum at my creche her DS is going throught the same thing and we found together that it seemed to co-incide with taking the cot sides down. He now knows how to get out! I guess I should hope that this is a phase - at the end of the day I don't want to be a control freak about it!!!! 

[DebLillian]

Bhumi- Perhaps over stimulation or OT but I really don't know.  Putting him to bed early sounds wise so that he can get the sleep he needs.  For us wi/wo never worked either.  It sounds like the wake up time varies so I'm not sure that w2s is your best bet (my understanding is that w2s is best for habitual wakings that are always at the same time).  Hmmm... I don't really have an answer for you but I'm hoping this will bump it so that someone else can give you some advice.  Good luck!

[mumtothree]

Thanks Deb, did your LO's grow out of this? - I'm worried it's not just a phase but that I will be waking early for many years to come   This morning it was 4.26am, I was hiding under the bed sheets hoping it was just a bad dream.  I think I would feel better if I at least knew that this is just another phase to get through

[DebLillian]

We improved from 4:30 to 5:08... and somehow anything past 5 seems like heaven now.  Basically Lillian only does 10hrs or less at night (and never sleeps past 5:15).  I have resigned myself to this for now and know that someday she will grow out of it.  Probably not what you wanted to hear...

[RegMum]

Hello All
Don't know if anyone will be able to share advice with this, but if not, I can let everyone know how it is going as we progress....

DD is 20M, has one nap at 1230 for 1.5-2 hr.  She often would EW when she was younger than 1 year, but would generally go back to sleep with help. In the last 6 months or so, she has been waking between 630 and 7 consistently.  She is usually asleep between 7 and 730 at night.

In the last month, she has been feeling poorly, and vomiting a few times a week - likely due to the start of her 2 year molar teething.  (Since she was having trouble sleeping and was getting alot of cuddles when feeling poorly, I transitioned her to a regular bed with rails - this does not seem to have caused any additional problems.)  In the last two weeks, she has regularly started waking at 530, and does not seem interested in going back to sleep. She wakes and whines for Mum and Dad, and does not progress to crying until she is ignored for 10min or so. We have been following the BW advice on toilet training, and she takes almost all of her BM on the toilet.  Problem is, if I leave her in bed whinging when she wakes at 530, she often soils herself by 630; other times she can make it until I get her up at 645 and put her on the toilet.  I am scared to put her on the toilet when she wakes, as I figure this will make it harder for her to go back to sleep, but on the other hand, I can hardly expect her to sleep if she wants to go on the toilet.  (She does not give verbal cues for needing the toilet yet.) We also haven't yet been giving her pain medication for the teething, as she seems to be able to get through the night without it.  Since she wakes once every night and appears to be in pain, I am contemplating giving her pain medication to see if that will help at 530, even though she can go back to sleep without medication after some comforting.

Anyone been through something like this and can offer advice?

I think will start with a W2S to try avoid the 530 wake, and putting her on the toilet if she wakes anyway.  I'll let you know how it goes...