Wriggling 7 month old wont sleep!!

[clazzat]

(((hugs))) It is hard, but sometimes you have to give him some space.  You should listen to his various cries and try to work out what each one means - I'm not brilliant at it with my lo, but one thing I have learned is that she does have a very loud cry (sounds like someone is trying to kill her!) which doesn't last very long.  I used to rush to her when I heard it, but I have learned that it isn't actually a cry that needs immediate attention but rather often subsides without my help. 

When he cries listen to what he is trying to say - if he is desperate for you to come to him, then go to him straight away; if it is not a desperate cry then give him a minute to see if he can settle himself.  It takes a while to learn, but you will get it.

[~inbalance~]

I agree that you should try leaving him, especially if he is fighting you.  You can't do anything to help him if he fights you when you're holding him.  When DS gets like that I just put him down and leave, and usually when I come back he's more willing to negotiate.    He's a little older though.  At night, suggest to your DH to wear earplugs while you sort it out.  Even I wear earplugs, and TBH it's really helped me during the times when I've had to block out the cries (when they're not urgent, but even at night it drives me nuts).  I have found wiwo very very effective, but I think your LO might still be a little on the young side.  It's worth looking into though to see if you think it might be something that will work for you. 

(((HUGS))) I know it can be really frustrating!  But trust we've all been there one way or another so you are not alone, and there is an end to it!! 

[mokey_cat]

(((hugs)))  It is so hard to deal with NW's!!

I leave DD for a few minutes crying unless its a desparate cry.  And it did take me ages to figure her cries out (sometimes I'm still not sure!).  She does settle sometimes (it gets to a point where there are gaps between her cries, then she gets off to sleep) but other times it escalates so I would then go in.  As with the pp's her cry is really loud and i hate leaving her to cry but I when I learned to give her a bit of space, she surprised me and got back to sleep on her own!! 

Im just wondering - what age is WIWO appropriate?  I have been doing something like it for NW's recently (although didnt realise it was a method of sleep training until I read the earlier posts  ).

X

[TurboMum]

You ladies are awesome! I love you ladies for being sooooo supportive! I kinda need that! THANK YOU SOOO MUCH!!!

Ya I remembered that in the book it says if lo is pushing you away that means he wants to settle himself so I should lay him down.  But then he cries like in hell when i do that... so i was reallly confused!

And re the cries -- oh if I was ever clear about what sort of cires he does i probably wouldn't be in the situation i am in right now! Gosh.. i wish I was a bit better in doing that... everytime I tried to listen the difference, they all sound the SAME! Gosh.. I'm soo crap......

I will definitely do some research on wiwo side.... for the mean time, when you ladies do it, how many days do you have to do it to see effect? Do you do it for all naps and night time sleep? how does that coordinate with being OT then? How long does your lo take to settle to sleep each time? sorry soo many questions...

Also my lo is a tummy sleeper so he hates on his back. But if I lay him in his cot he will def wriggle and roll onto his back and he'll get upset...and I wonder how he can settle himself back to sleep (on his back)? 

Oh Laura - you just posted when I did! 

As with the pp's her cry is really loud and i hate leaving her to cry but I when I learned to give her a bit of space, she surprised me and got back to sleep on her own!! 

It is very encouraging to see your success! You always encourage me! 

Well I found WIWO in toddler sleeping training board.... so I suppose it is more for babies perhaps around 10mo and over? Just a guess...

Thanks sooo much!!
T xx

[mokey_cat]

I only started using WIWO in the last few weeks since DD started waking shortly after going to bed for the night.  She usually falls asleep on her own but we use is if she wakes before its time to get up (so recently I had to use it for a few naps too).

And re the cries -- oh if I was ever clear about what sort of cires he does i probably wouldn't be in the situation i am in right now! Gosh.. i wish I was a bit better in doing that... everytime I tried to listen the difference, they all sound the SAME! Gosh.. I'm soo crap......

Honestly, Im sure everyone struggle with it!!  I always find it difficult and still question it everytime!!  I wish it was more obvious.

X

[nazmommy]

It is always sooo encouraging to read other people's posts!  You ladies are always so supportive!

Turbo Mom....hang in there.  We are right in the middle of it too.  She is having 3-4 nw/ew and they are getting really frustrating.  TBH, I just nurse her but that takes a long time. S
Becky, at naps, is awesome.  She is so supportive and patient.  She got me through a really tough time of 30 minute naps.  Now dd naps for an 1 hr and 15/20 minutes!!
I wish I was better at ready cues too.  You are not crap, love.  Its just hard being a mommy.
I learned that my wd needed to be A LOT shorter.  I was doing WAY too much.  Mine was only 5-10 minutes too but I shortened it to about 2/3 minutes that really worked better.  She is a touchy baby so the shorter the better.  DD is a tummy sleeper too.  I lay her down on her tummy and hold her leg with my left hand and won't let her roll.  I am struggling with this right now b/c I don't want it to become a prop but these ladies have encouraged me that it won't.  So, for right now, that's what we are doing.  I would like to see her do it ALL by herself, but that will come.
8 nw's is super hard!!  DD did that for awhile too but I figured out she was a paci addict so I had to take it. 
I too struggled with the OT monster cycle.  APOP was what worked until we could get her naps in place.  Now for the NWs.....We'll get there hopefully one day before I melt away from no sleep.
Hang in there.  You are doing awesome!!  You WILL get through this! 

[TurboMum]

Thanks Nazmommy! It's really good to know that you've been there and been out of successfully for the naps! I'm still struggling a bit with his naps - we had a couple of days good naps that DS slept for 2hrs without a peep but then that's it! And it was never that good for any two days in a roll  I often get one good day then followed by 3 bad days... it was like one step forward and then 3 steps back!    Soo discouraging sometimes! I also tried to hold down DS's legs but he'll do his mini push-ups and look around and sometimes get really upset cos he CAN'T move! grrr...

I only started using WIWO in the last few weeks since DD started waking shortly after going to bed for the night.  She usually falls asleep on her own but we use is if she wakes before its time to get up (so recently I had to use it for a few naps too).

DS does that too! Literally everyday at bedtime! I read from somewhere waking shortly after going to bed is due to OT - do you think your LO was OT when going to bed? Some bubs need a bit shorter A before going to bed apparently.... just a thought for you to know...

Well... perhaps I should have bought lottery ticket yesterday as last night was amazing!!!!!! Only 2 NWs!!!    I couldn't believe it! (I hope I don't jinx it for saying this but it probably will since I did!  )  I was completly over the moon when I went to bed and couldn't sleep as DS hadn't woken up yet after 2hrs since his last NW at 8.30pm.   Then he woke up at 12.30am and I fed him and he was surprisingly pretty easy to go back to sleep as well. I basically walked out straightaway and he didnt' wake up until 6.30 this morning!!!     But on the other hand I still didn't get any sleep I was tossing and turning in bed, waiting and thinking why DS hasn't woken up yet!   Oh well....

Also I found him completely heading the opposite direction from when I put him down for sleep this morning! Surprised and wonder if I should lay his bed mattress down to the lower level... When do you ladies move the mattress down for your LOs? I wonder if it would still a bit early to do that for a 6.5mo old or is it about time?

Thanks and hugs,
T xx

[clazzat]

There's no harm to moving the mattress down - apart from the nuisance of having to bend down further! - and better to do it before it's necessary than too late.  We did it when dd started looking like she wanted to stand up.

Hurrah for the good night, though.  How were his naps yesterday?  Multiple NWs are normally OT, so you should probably try to recreate the naps as best you can today.  Sorry you didn't get any sleep anyway - I was the same when dd2 started sleeping better!  Hope you get another good night.
Cx

[mokey_cat]

Thats great news T!!!  I hope its the same tonight for you!! 

DS does that too! Literally everyday at bedtime! I read from somewhere waking shortly after going to bed is due to OT - do you think your LO was OT when going to bed? Some bubs need a bit shorter A before going to bed apparently.... just a thought for you to know...

You are right - I think it was defo OT causing these NW's (along with teething, stomach virus and noisy neighbours grrrr) so I am trying to fiddle with A times just now to get things back to normal.  She is still unwell though so A times are all over the place but once she is better, I am going to need some serious routine tweaks to get better naps and stop NW's and EW's.

X

[TurboMum]

There's no harm to moving the mattress down - apart from the nuisance of having to bend down further! - and better to do it before it's necessary than too late.  We did it when dd started looking like she wanted to stand up.

I hate to think about that - it's already hurting soo much even when mattress in up high here!  What do mummies do wrong to deserve this? But of course you are right - it's better safe than sorry, isn't it? Oh well...I was thinking of trying to put it off maybe another week or so but DS wacked his head on the top of the bars REALLY hard at bedtime today, so hard that I have to banish the work to get him to fall asleep on his own!  He was almost there after about half an hour tossing and turning in bed and then "bamm!" I had to pick him up again! Arghhh.... why is the end of the tunnel soooo farrrrrr away??? .... got to get some more bumpers to cushion the bars up - we already have doubled it up you know!

Yup I let him sleep quite a bit yesterday although a bit broken. Altogether he probably had about 2.5hr in the am nap but pm nap was really short and no CN... so....not sure if that helped... but today I'm not sure....I think I may go back to my multiple NWs as he had a quite long CN to start with, then OT at bedtime again (I thought I've got it on time today but then he woke up when I place him down @ 7.30pm and spent another half an hour trying to go back to sleep... so again one more time spending over an hour to get him down  ... things just never go as planned, aren't they? There's always something up! )  We'll see how it goes tonight.... fingers crossed!

Oh actually I'd like to ask you ladies, when your lo has a short am nap, then a fairly long pm nap, then the CN would be super early, even if I try to put lo down for early bedtime, he still wouldn't make it... would you let your lo sleep longer during CN? I probably have messed things up by letting him sleep a bit too long for his CN today - 30min+1hr (oh no!  )

Laura - sorry that Holly is still unwell.... hope she recovers soon!!! I'm sure you can get her back on track very quickly! you are very good in tweaking her routines!

Thanks ladies,
T xx

[clazzat]

When mine were 6 months and still needed the catnap, they slept 9-10, 12.30-2.30 and 4/4.30-5 - never longer than one hour for CN, and I think at 6 months it was more like 20-30 minutes.  Bedtime was then at 6.30.  As they got older, the CN went (a pretty easy transition), and am nap gets shorter but lunchtime nap stays the same.  Now dd2 is sleeping 9.15-9.45, 12.30-2.30/2.45 and bedtime is still 6.30.

[TurboMum]

Oh now she's sleeping only 30min in am? How old is your DD2 now? What time do they get up in the morning then?

I know I really shouldn't let him sleep for long CN but because his naps are mostly short and I soo wanted him to catch up some sleep but somehow it always end up he does the best with CN which is supposed to be short? sigh... so I often cave in and making the same mistake again and again!

So yours had CN of 20-30min at 6months? DS's CN was never exceeding 30min mark if he does have one and he always wake up grumpy and that's probably why I felt he needed more sleep. Perhaps I should just let him be like that rather than extend it and let it mess up the night...

Oh well.. night's messed up as expected   ... overall it hasn't reached our record - 8 times - so at least that's something comforting.   Today is a new day isn't it? Will see how it goes...


T xx

[annette.xx]

turbo mum.....

im so sorry to hear you are having such a hard time with NW .....its the hardest thing ever to deal with so you must be knackered!

sorry if I missed it but what is your LOs routine wake time?....and then what time do you put him down for his first nap of the day?

Annette.xx

[clazzat]

dd2 is now 10 months.  She's a bit of an early bird - we get up at 6, but are battling waking at 5 at the moment, but she is asleep by 6.30pm so I think 6 is a reasonable wake time.  dd1 used to get up at 7.15, but we are waking her early at the moment so that she goes down for her lunchtime sleep more easily (she's 2.5).

I know how hard it is, but you have to resist letting him make up sleep with the catnap - the problem there is that the cycle just continues, whereas if you are firm about enforcing good naps during the day then he will catch up much more sleep.  For example, if I let dd2 sleep 45 minutes for her first nap, she would only sleep one hour at lunchtime (total sleep 1h45) whereas if I restrict her to 30 minutes for her first nap she will sleep 2h+ at lunchtime - so overall she does much better on sleep because I enforce the sleep at the "right" time.  If your lo is sleeping too much at the catnap he is probably losing sleep overall because he can't actually get enough sleep that late in the day to make up for all the missed sleep earlier on - does that make sense?

I know that dd2 was really grumpy every afternoon (from 5 until bath at 6) for ages, even with the catnap.  It is very common for los to have a grumpy hour in the late afternoon/early evening and it is often not related to sleep.  She has mostly grown out of it, although if she is going to be grumpy and difficult, that's the time it will happen.

(((hugs))) hope you have a good day.

[mokey_cat]

My LO also has a really grumpy hour just before her bath every night (6-7 usually)- it does not matter if she has had good naps or not.  Its been like this for a while so we just have to pay her a lot of attention and play with her a lot during that time.

We always found that a longer CN (I tried it too for a while when we were having short naps to catch up) would usually lead to either NW's or more often EW's.  DD's sleeping actually got a LOT better once we dropped the CN altogether (for a while anyway  )

Clazzat - can I ask what your LO's routine looked like at 7.5ish months.  DD was able to manage long A's from when she was about 5 months but she has been doing 3hours now for about 2 months and we are getting NW's and EW's now.  We were getting 1.5-2 hour naps but now the morning is between 55mins-1hr25 at best (usually 1hr).  Then the afternoon is a bit confusing as she has been waking after 30mins crying but she has been a bit unwell so I think that may have something to do with it or maybe because the morning nap is shorter she cannot handle normal A's in the afternoon??  It was really easy to read her cues for that last 2 months but thats getting harder too  .

T - hope you have a better day today 

X