Trying weaning again...any advice...

[AliG]

Hi there,
I tried weaning my little boy when he was 5mths and 1 week. He is a big boy - was 4.1kg at birth and was 9.75kg 1.5wks ago (at 24wks). So, I thought he needed more than milk and was pretty bored of it, especially as he is on the max amount of milk per feed and hungry milk. However, he didn't really seem all that interested - just looked at me non-plussed and didn't open his mouth. I tried for 4 or so days but as he wasn't showing any signs of becoming more keen, I left it.

Now he is going to turn 6mths at the end of Feb, it's time to try again. And I know this time I have to persevere. But, how? I'm wary of 'cajoling' him into eating and don't want him to make any negative associations, but how am I supposed to feed him and get him to open his mouth?! And how do I persevere if he won't open his mouth, without causing any negative associations?

I have the Annabel Karmel book and am planning on following her meal plans etc.

Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated, as I'm pretty daunted about trying again.

Thank you in advance.

[~inbalance~]

Have a read here for reassurance:  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=182686.0

TBH, if he won't open up for a spoon, I'd ditch the spoon altogether.  Some babies just do not want to be spoon fed, and you really can't force them if they won't open up for it.

Have you considered Baby Led Weaning?  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=92560.0
It is a very different style of weaning, but it's great for babies that are not interested in being spoon fed, or who would like more control.  It really does help these sorts of babies develop healthy eating habits without trying to force them to eat.  You just have to be prepared to take a different approach.

There is a BLW support thread if you'd like to talk to other BLW moms.  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=184657.0

We did this with my DS2 because he would not let me feed him at all, and like you I didn't want to create any negative associations with eating.  I can't say that he ate very much for the first few months, but I'm so happy we did it because now he is really starting to enjoy foods and he eats a wide variety of things.

HTH

[AliG]

Thanks Martina.

I'll give it a good go, and if all else fails, maybe BLW will be the way forward...

[AliG]

Hi again,

Think we're going to go down the BLW route, as spoon still being refused. Yet, he is keen to reach out and grab it from me. Think he wants to be in control, so am hoping BLW might work with him.
I get worried about him already having negative associations though, given I've tried to spoon feed him with no success. Obviously I've been very mindful of not pushing him/it, but at the same time I have tried. So bit worried now...

[~inbalance~]

Try not to worry.  It takes a lot of coaxing I think to form true associations with the spoon.  Join us over on the BLW support thread if you have any questions at all about how to start, some of the mommies over there are seasoned pros!    I also recommend the book as well for more info and guidance. 

[jesie]

DS wouldn't take the spoon to begin with so I gave him some banana and he held and ate it so I kept the banana for a few days, he now had the taste for food and started to take the spoon.

Good luck  

[AliG]

Hi Martina,
I wondered if I could ask you a few questions about BLW? Sometimes, things can get a bit lost in the thread, and I know you've already done it once... Hope that's ok.

I'm apprehensive about gagging and choking... I know it's best to offer stick shape pieces at first, but how big is too big if he manages to suck off a chunk and therefore will be at risk for choking and similarly how small is too small? That's what I'm struggling with a bit. So if a piece breaks off, I'm not sure whether to let him keep handling it, or take it away. I gave him apple this morning with the skin on - presume that's ok? Same with pears? (I got organic so just gave them a quick rinse). I also thought it was easier to cut the apples into quarters and quarters again, rather than sticks. Seemed a bit more sturdy and easy to hold (?)

I've tried cheddar sticks too, but they break really easily. So would a good alternative be Edam or something a bit more rubbery?

Also, if I try yogurt, or porridge, or something sloppy, do I offer him a spoon?

I bought a bag of baby rice cakes, which are round, not sticks. He seems quite keen on sucking them, but again, they then break into bits and I don't know what to do!

Finally, if you steam, say carrots and broccoli, how long will they be ok for refrigerated do you know? Or is it best to cook with a view to eating as soon as cool?

Any help much appreciated. Thanks very much,
A

[~inbalance~]

Hi Ali!  I'll do my best to answer your questions. 

About the gagging and choking.  First of all it's good practice to know what to do in such a situation.  You could take a baby first aid course, or even watch videos on YouTube a lot.  Most moms feel better when they know what to do.  Remember that gagging is totally normal and is not the same thing as choking.  A baby's gag reflux is more sensitive to protect them from choking, and it lessens as they get older and learn how to move food around in their mouths.  Prime choking size is about the size of a grape, for reference.  A grape is the perfect size to get stuck.  Sticks or large chunks are the best sizes, but once your baby masters his pincher grasp (this was 7mos for both of mine), you can offer smaller pea-sized pieces.  I always preferred tiny pieces, some mom like offering very big pieces.

It really takes months for them to learn how to deal with texture and pieces in their mouths, and to figure out how to swallow.  So if it seems like all he's doing is chewing or biting off big chunks but not actually eating anything, then everything is fine. 

Pears I always offered in thin slicess with the skin on once they are really ripe because they kinda melt into a juicy mush that way.  Apples are a little trickier because they are crunchy.  The true point of BLW is actually to just let them go at the whole thing.  With apples I avoided them for awhile because of the hard bits.  Also, some varieties of apple are softer than others, so you could try different kinds to see if one is more manageable.  With DS1 I used to steam the apple pieces and he enjoyed them that way.

With cheese, try grating it.

With things that require a spoon, you are supposed to offer him the spoon as per BLW so that he figures out how to eat himself.  This takes a lot of time, patience, and mess!  But if you don't mind, then go for it. 

Rice cakes I find get mushy fairly quickly, so if he is chewing on those they will probably get really soft and he can manage the pieces. 

I would think cooked veggies are ok in the fridge for a day or two.  Another option if you want to make ahead is to freeze them on baking sheets then transfer them to a freezer safe bag for container.  Then you can take them out and defrost as needed.  It's best to heat them up in hot water instead of the microwave.  You can pop frozen veggies into boiling water for a few minutes to heat them up.

HTH

[AliG]

Thanks so much Martina, that is a great help.

So, if grape size is prime size for choking, anything smaller, in theory, can't be choked on? (but can cause gagging?). Just want to feel a bit reassured, so if small bits of the food sticks he's gumming break off, I won't start taking them away unnecessarily.

Good tip about the cheese - thank you. And maybe I'll start steaming apple pieces a bit so that as he gums them, they go mushy and then can be swallowed. Though, I'm not expecting anything to be swallowed for a while. He seems fascinated watching me eat - following bits of food from my hand to my mouth and then watching me chew. And he's had a good gum on cucumber sticks (seemed to like those!), rice cake, toast fingers and apple. I guess another good idea is to spread some fruit puree on rice cakes. Not found a good way of offering avocado yet though. It just turns to mush if he holds it; same with banana. I know the suggestion is to leave the skin on both, but not sure how to go about that either!

Thanks so much again,
A

p.s. I am indeed going to do an infant first aid course, which is in a couple of weeks. That's a good tip about YouTube though, thanks.

[~inbalance~]

Right, smaller pieces should be able to be coughed back up again.  Also, choking is silent and gagging is not, so if he is sputtering and coughing then he is not choking, kwim?

While gagging is very common, choking is actually very rare.  Of course you want to practice safe eating, never leave LO unattended, and know what to do.  But I would say the odds of a baby choking are no worse than anyone else.

Avocado and banana are tricky.  The riper they are, the softer they are, so maybe try them when they're still a little firm. 

[Texomamama]

Ali,

Don't know where you are, but a couple of related suggestions:

- in addition to grating cheese, you can also buy pre-packaged cheese "crumbles".  I am pretty sure Kraft makes some.  Bigger than shreds, but not as big as cubed.  I used these for DD1 when she was about 7-8 months old.
- Gerber makes jarred carrots, apples and pears as part of their graduates line.  They are already the perfect size and nice and mushy, plus they keep for a little while longer once opened (2-3 days).The downside is, of course, you are paying a lot extra for the packaging.  Also, I believe they package the fruits in a small amount of juice (in case you want to keep it all natural).  That never really concerned me though.

HTH

[AliG]

Thanks for the food suggestions - I'm in the UK so not sure of equivalents, but I'll check it out. The grated cheese yesterday just ended up smeared and scattered everywhere, not in the mouth!

Martina, first gagging incidents yesterday, which totally freaked me out. The first one, I think a small bit of ripe pear had broken off, as a couple of bits came out first. Then there was this horrible noise, and I panicked as he seemed to stop and go silent. Then obviously his body cleared out - nothing came out though.

Then, after sucking on a rice cake, it started to disintegrate so he gagged badly again as a piece obviously went down his throat. I then gave him a bit of water to see if that would help but he then gagged more and was sick. I guess being sick is normal as the food has stimulated the gag reflex? Just like adults can be sick if they put their fingers down their throat.

TOTALLY alarmed me though and now I feel a bit nervous about giving more food

[anna*]

Gagging and being sick is fine, totally normal, not a sign  to end a meal or stop weaning! Just clean up and carry on! The vomit is just his body protecting him from choking! All good stuff. Yes parents are alarmed by it but don't let him see that you're anxious or he'll pick up on it.

[~inbalance~]

What Anna said. 

It is really scary for parents, but it's important you don't panic.  Gagging is a protective reflux, they're supposed to do it until they get the hang of things.  Sounds like he is on track. 

[AliG]

Thank you very much all.

Re first foods, anyone got any suggestions? I tried carrots today but was a bit apprehensive as they just went quite slippery and showing signs of breaking before even being held. Anyway, any tips of good things to try for the first couple of weeks - and similarly things to avoid - would be great. ps no teeth yet!

Thanks so much again.