Support for dropping the nap part 12

[Eva's Mummy]

Can I join in please, we are having an awful time. Usually DD1 has 3 NND when she is at nursery then at home she naps 1:30 - 3:00. The last 3-4 weeks this has resulted in earlier WU's 5/5:30

So we have been trying 1hr capped nap. But WU was still creeping earlier. This week on Monday she refused her nap but eventually fell asleep at 2:30 and I woke her after 45mins.Since then she has had 3 NND's in a row . When we picked her up on Thursday she was crying in the car asking to go straight to bed, so no dinner and asleep for 5:30, WU 4:30but managed to get her back to sleep until 5:40

I then let her nap for 2hrs but she wouldn't go to be and ended up awake until 8:55 and woke this morning at 5:00

I'm shattered and at a loss. It doesn't help that at almost 18 months my other daughter still does not sleep through the night either.

[KatyBee]

He's doing 7pm-6.30am ONS though & seems to be mostly coping with that. Hoping we might be through the worst of the transition now.

That is amazing - I would kill for those hours fingers crossed for you it stays that way.

Eva's Mummy your story sounds so familiar - sorry & welcome!

My son is on a NND routine of 6pm-5:30am .... which may or may not involve a few NWs.... I'm pleased that he is sleeping longer overall, but would LOVE to shift this by 30 mins if I can. But if I move BT or give him any kind of nap, he just wakes earlier - so i'm fairly resigned to the horrible early mornings for a while.

I might post on the main page about shifting EWs - but if anyone here has any brainwaves i'm all ears!

[Scottishmummy]

It probably won't stay that way but enjoying the better nights for now! Key for DS for a longer night seems  to be physical activity in the day. Not easy in winter weather but I've been a mean mummy and made him walk everywhere we go & taken him to the park on every non-rainy day!

Kelly- hope your colds get better soon, being ill always wipes DS out too. His last long nap days were when he had a cold.

Katy- would it work to move bedtime gradually later e.g. 10mins or so every 3-4 days?

Eva's mummy- It's hard isn't it to get the balance?
Sounds like 45min on a Nap day might be maximum for your DD?
if your DD is exhausted by early evening after not napping, would a very short 10-15 min nap help get her through to BT? A couple of times DS conked out in front of TV at 5 pm on a NND.  I woke him as soon as I realised so probably a 5-10 min nap (I was cooking at the time & just popping in & out). I thought it would give us awful EW but it seemed to be enough to get him to usual BT (7pm since dropping nap) but not so much it interrupted night sleep.
I would probably also limit any catch up nap day to 45min-1hr only, even after a succession of NNDs and EW.  Otherwise you get into an UT/OT cycle (as I found out from my own experience!)

[Kellyjs]

Hey katybee.. 2 options hun. 1 as scottishmummy says and shift the whole day n increments like we do with daylight savings. Or, option 2 and shoot for a late BT one night as a one off and see if that resets him? I saw one of the other mods recommend it to someone who was having those issues. Personally I think as there's no nap to catch up on now, I would move BT by 20mins the first day hold for the second, then do the same again and hope for a later wu.

Hi Gail.. yes we still have EW here and there. It's definitely worse when she's had a longer nap. I found it much easier with BT when we didn't have a full restorative nap as scottishmummy said too. Much better when we got to 30ins capped nap (she says, still hearing DD singing away upstairs  ) xx

[Bella89]

Hi there,
just wanted to jump in here and ask about 1-0.
My 15 month DS is on 1 nap since 10 month old. Now he started taking longer and longer naps in the afternoon, pushing BT later and EW
I know it's too early for dropping the nap, but when does it usually start?
I think I should start waking him up tomorrow after 2h:( Wdyt?

[Eva's Mummy]

Hi just wondered how everyone was getting on. Katybee did you manage to shift bt? We are stuck with ew too.  Exact same same as you,  if we stretch bt which we have done for the past week to 6:30 then wu has gotten earlier to nearer 5:10

Guess I'm looking for a miraculous success story as we are both really tired now.

[First mum]

Hi Ladies, just thought I drop in for a spot of advice  My lo has just turned 2 in early May and we have had our first run of NNDs at day-care.  It was just once a week and she had quiet time in her cot but just wouldn't sleep.  Bedtime is usually 6:45 so I figured we would move it early and see what happened.  First time she barely made it to 6pm  brushing her teeth with her eyes closed.  Following week 6:15pm and last night we had a massive meltdown and conked out at 6:30pm. 

I've heard from her carer today and same thing.  Quiet time in her cot, but no sleep.  She is still doing a 90 minute nap for me 4 days a week with maybe a bit longer on a Friday after a long week.  I have 2 questions really.....

Should I change anything with her routine at home?  wu 6:30-6:45am nap 12-1ish for 90 minutes and into bed 6:45 (asleep between 5-30 mins later). We have the odd change but we are pretty consistent.

On the NND how early is too early for bed?  should I just aim for 6pm and tweak as she gets used to the NND?

TIA, hope all is well with everyone!

[ginger428]

Anyone still here?

Firstmum, Gail, Bella- any good updates?

[MarciaMSPT]

Yes, is anyone still here?  Cause I'm jumping in with my 3.5 year old.  He started refusing his nap every now and then back in June... but for the last two weeks, he's refused it completely.  I still do quiet time after lunch and a bit of activity.  Around 2 but over the last three days I resorted to forcing a cat nap in the car since I sensed that OT was becoming an issue.  My signs for OT were basic behavior but more the long blinks, occasional yawn, red eyes and sometime darkness under the eyes.  I just don't think that a 15 min CN is cutting it.

We've tried to make bed time earlier but I'm afraid I'm only trying to tack on about another 45 minutes to his night since he is dropping his nap and that tells me had needs less sleep?  I think I'm wrong but EBT generally gets a night waking (but not for long) and a slightly early wake up maybe 6:15 at the earliest that I'm not worried about...  BT used to be at 8:30 and he would fall asleep by 8:45 on the button.  We are trying various EBT's but may not have stuck to any one long enough to know what we need. 

We are even doing a bit earlier BT even when I take him on a short Cat nap in the car... 

Seems I just need someone to give me some general overall advice and direction on what to try first/next and how long should I stick with it until the next suggestion?

Hoping someone is still here

Thanks in advance,

[jessmum46]

At 3.5yo I would say just pick a bedtime that suits you all and ride it out until he gets used to it.  For us with DD (she was rather younger - just under 2.5yo) bedtime became 6.30pm and straight to sleep, rather than 7-7.30pm with messing around on nap days.  So say 30-60 mins earlier than previously.  We just went with the set bedtime, threw in a random catnap every now and again and eventually it all settled.  Some OT is inevitable with the transition but at 3.5yo I wouldn't have thought it would cause too many problems for too long....what was his routine (WU, nap and BT) before refusing?

[MarciaMSPT]

Hey thanks for the big picture... sure calmed my nerves...

His routine WU before refusing naps was usually 6:30ish on his own - sometimes a bit later but not later than 7am.

Nap was 1:30 to 3:00 and sometimes 1-3.

BT was 8:15 with him sleeping by 8:45.

If I just pick a bedtime... and it's too early, I'll get NW and EWU - because I've had them before... so trying to navigate it all...

Should I not pick a bedtime that is 1.5 hours earlier to make up for what he's loosing for his nap? 

Marcia

[jessmum46]

I would look at what his average sleep in 24h has been lately, and set bedtime on that basis, perhaps 30 mins earlier as often total sleep increases a bit when it is consolidated after a nap transition.  So by looks of things he was getting about 11.5-12h in 24?  I'd maybe shoot for a 7pm ish bedtime in that case and see how things go x

[MarciaMSPT]

Wah?  Did you read my mind?  That was my next question... I just figured that he was needing overall less sleep now but not so!  In fact just yesterday he slept from 3-4 in the car and then ASKED to go to bed at  7:30!!!  Before I never let him sleep after 3 and barely got him to sleep by 8:45...

I've resigned to APOP in the car for now... 

I'm not sure I can handle the melt downs with nothing even if BT is super early... but the other day he wanted to go to bed at 6:30 and seems to be asking for EBT before meltdowns so maybe I should just run with a super early bedtime and see how it goes for the long haul.

Is there a sleep regression at 3.5?

Thanks again!

[jessmum46]

I think there can be regressions around half birthdays in general - behaviour, sleep, whatever.  DD has always been super-sensitive and tearful leading up to half birthdays here.  How are you getting on?

[ginger428]

Hi! Can anyone offer a suggestion for BT tonight with or without nap? Am I missing any OT?
The night before he woke at 5:30, fell asleep later and woke at 8. I compensated by making BT at 8 with no nap, but maybe I should have stuck to 7 BT?

Max's night was 10.25, NND yesterday, WU 6:30.

This past week's easy-

WU 7:30
N 3:15-3:35
BT 8:30

WU 6:45 (10.15)
NND
BT 7:10

WU 6:30 (11.20)
NND
BT 7:30

WU 6:30 (11)
N 2:04-2:30
BT 8:30

WU 6:30 (10hr)
N 2:40-3:00
BT 10:00

WU 7:30 (9.5)
NND
BT 7:05

WU 5:30 (10.25), 7-8 (11.25 total)
NND
BT 8:05

WU 6:30 (10.25) TODAY