Lost my way with 6 mo old EASY

[creations]

Well, in the BW books Tracy shifted A times quite dramatically, here we usually increase in smaller increments of say 15 mins every few days but if you reduced to say 2hr 30 or 2hr 45 I wouldn't see a problem with moving directly to 3hr.

I will say though, if teeth are coming it can certainly be the cause of that long NW.  Was he crying or playing in the night?

[JennVanessa1083]

I have to get her second book BW Solves All Your Problems!

Ok I can start that tomorrow. Today I did a first A of almost 2:50 and got a broken nap sigh and a second A of 2:45 with another OT broken nap. Of course it could be the bajillion NW last night and a long 2.5 NW smh.

The last two nights he will go back and forth between playing and crying. He would cry a ton when I tried to put him back to sleep as he was wired!!! I wonder if maybe the position was making his gums hurt as I once read that horizontal or lying down makes teething worse for them. I don't know. I even tried nursing as a last resort but he was biting too hard.  Finally he passed out crying in my arms as I walked around. I gave him Motrin and Camila together before bedtime but I guess it's just not enough. His two bottom teeth are poking through the gums but they aren't fully in yet. I thought once they broke guns it gets better? Maybe that's wishful thinking 

I'm just desperately seeking a light at the end of a very long and exhausting tunnel.

[creations]

sorry to hear things are rough right now.

I wonder if maybe the position was making his gums hurt as I once read that horizontal or lying down makes teething worse for them. I don't know

Yes, it can help to elevate the sleeping area, if you have a cot safe wedge for instance or cot blocks.

I thought once they broke guns it gets better?

There can be pain before the teeth cut and after, they are still moving after all. It's awful, I know. Hang in there.  Every tooth through is a one less to come.

[JennVanessa1083]

Yes very true!! I will do a dance when these teeth finally come through!!

Anyways, I'm sticking to the 3 hr first 2 A times and hopefully a 2.5 A to bed (hasn't worked yet). Today naps were better but he still woke up midway but much easier to resettle. Fingers crossed for bedtime!

General question: Do you ever increase A while LO teeth like this? Also do you think (given the information I gave you) set naps would be beneficial for him? I have seen several type of routines but this seems to be the most common:

WU 7-7:30
S 9:30-11
S 1:30 (or 2:30)-3/4
BT 7-8 (basically 4 hour A to bed I think)

Sounds crazy but some have had success but I'm not sure if I should go there...Or is it better again based on the info I have given:

WU 7
S 10-11:30
S 2:30-4
BT 6:30-7 pm

The last A is a huge mystery. Im gearing up to get him on some routine since it feels like it's all over the place trying to read cues etc. he's also had a lot NW this week (teething and constipation  ) which has pushed the routine forward to the point where his BT is 8.30 and we are in a vicious OT cycle.

[creations]

I can't imagine giving such a young LO a 4hr A to bed.  Sorry can't advise on that.  Maybe a new thread if you wanted to get some feedback from others who had tried it?

Do you ever increase A while LO teeth like this?

It would always be nicer and easier if things could come along one thing at a time, but with babies that just doesn't seem to happen, so whilst it's easier to work out routines if they are not ill, not teething and not going through a developmental leap, sometimes you do have to just go ahead and try a tweak.
If you feel there would be benefit to trying a longer A then by all means try it, remember you have your own instinct and you are the one observing daily, I'm only looking at words on a screen.
xx

[JennVanessa1083]

Very true...

I don't think he needs an increase from 3 hours yet...I guess I was wondering how one can even tell the difference between say teething and routine tweak. It all seems to blur together! My concern is how I can even tell the difference in NW and now EW.

I guess I'll know more when I get him on an earlier routine. Right now he's almost at a 8:30-8:30 routine and I'm sure that's just not working out for him!

[JennVanessa1083]

I wanted to ask for some guidance on my EASY...

Is it possible that with him cutting teeth, his naps get shorter and shorter? Now he's waking up at 27 minutes! He also seems clumsier....maybe from the discomfort? I feel like he's so OT and I don't know how to stay on top of it. He wakes about 4 times still ( with one long one) and is getting less overall night sleep. He used to average 11; now it's 10 about but very broken. I can't give him meds bc I feel I have doing it for weeks straight and  scared I'm damaging him. He also seems constipated and I think it's the Motrin.

Any advice?

[creations]

Looking back it seems to be about a week ago you reduced the A time to see if that would help (when you were asking about increasing back to 3hrs) so whilst it does seem from what you're saying that he is acting tired and OT (clumsier and the 27 min naps) I would be less inclined to suggest a shorter A simply because you've quite recently tried it.
How about increasing the first A time to 3hr 15 and seeing how that goes?  I remember a time my LO was doing something similar to this, short naps and seeming tired all the time, and one poster suggested UT rather than OT.

Can you switch pain meds to children's paracetamol.  I've just looked up Motrin which is ibuprofen, it could be giving tummy ache.  I'd give a dose of paracetamol about 20 min before nap and the longer A time for first nap then (if he's been doing 27 mins) prepare to W2S, get in there at 20 mins and either put a hand on or ready yourself very close by, resettle before the full wake up.  This would hopefully help him get a good first nap and overall feel better.

Can you record your EAS times for this and post them please?
It may also be that he's getting too long in the night if his overall night time is 12 hrs (8.30-8.30) and we could look at reducing how long he is given at night, ie a shorter night but all/more sleep.

[JennVanessa1083]

Hi Creations!

Thank you for responding. Obviously my DS is definitely keeping me on my toes!

So I think your suggestions sound great. I'm assuming children's paracetamol is the same as children's Tylenol? I actually researched Infant Motrin and it seems as you say cause stomach issues including constipation. My poor DS has had constipation this week where we had to use a suppository to clean him out. I suspected the Motrin since for solids I have been sticking to foods that supposedly aid digestion such as oatmeal, pears, prunes etc. I didn't give him any medication last night and he slept slightly better but was still rather restless. I am wondering if maybe it's not only the teething but him being UT which is causing some of the nap and ultimately sleep issues.

Here is a picture of what has been happening. I did shorten yesterday as I tried to catch him up on sleep but the end result was the same. 

Thursday
NW 9:30, 10:37-11:27, 2:55, 5:07 am

Total ~10.25 hrs

WU: 8:57 am
E 9:08 am
A
E 10:45 (oatmeal/pear)
A
S 11:55-  1:38 pm (A 2:58; humming with minimal patting; took 8 minutes to settle( woke up at 38 minutes crying); fell asleep in my arms. Put him on the bed to finish nap.)
E 1:45 pm
A
E 4:07 pm
A
S 4:37- 6:06 pm(A 2:58; took 20 minutes to settle; no crying; was not tired. Shh pat)
E 6:30 (oatmeal/pear)
A
E 8:19 pm
S 8:56 (A 2:50; tried for 2.5 he would not settle had to rock him; too wired)

Yesterday
NW 9:22-10:42, 11:51, 2:37, 5:33

Total~10.25

WU 8:18 am
E 8:43 am
A
E 10 am (oatmeal/pear)
A
S 10:56- 12:53 pm (A 2:39; self settle with my arm next to him)
E
A
E 2:45 (prunes/ oatmeal)
A
S 3:40-5:08 pm (A 2:47; sung and pat; fought sleep; woke up fussy at 36)
E
A
E
S 7:58 pm (A 2:50; rocked; no time for wind down due to suppository inserted)
Today Thus Far:
NW: 9:15-10:54, 1:52, 3:59

Total ~10 hrs

WU 8:13 am
E 8:16
A
E 10am (prunes/oatmeal)
A
S 11:28-still sleeping (A 3:15; patted; wired but probably because not a good wind down with DH in the room. He gets hyper when dad is around. Woke up at 29 minutes; wide awake took me 10 minutes of rocking)

He's getting less night sleep despite the long night. He used to average 11 hours just last week. I would love it if we can somehow shorten the night but have more quality night sleep 

[creations]

S 10:56- 12:53 pm (A 2:39; self settle with my arm next to him)

Was this an unbroken nap yesterday after the 2hr 39 A time?  any resettling needed?  Just wondering if you were right about the shorter A time. Sorry I know that's contradicting what I said earlier but I was surprised to see this great nap here.

[JennVanessa1083]

Sorry yes he woke up crying at 27 minutes so I'm like ok is it UT, OT, discomfort? It was the shortest he's ever stayed asleep for a nap. Today after a 3:15 A he woke up at 29 minutes (which is expected since it's a jump in A) but after resettling in my arms he slept for 2 hours!

So here in lies my continuous confusion.

[creations]

OK perhaps try a couple more days at 3hr 15 then.

Looking at the NW the 9.15/30 ish one seems habitual, do you agree?  Just he woke at roughly that time with a 9pm BT and also with an 8pm BT. What do you do in that 1hr+ NW?

[JennVanessa1083]

I can definitely try 3:15 A before the am nap...now if he had a terrible night (10hrs of sleep or less), do I still go for 3:15 first A? Also, for the second A should I stick to 3 hrs? Or cut it back to 2.45?

 For the last A I can try 2.5 A. Currently it never really works out. He is so awake wanting to play and roll until he starts getting agitated and cries because I don't take him out. Not sure if now that I'm pushing the first A it will make him tired enough for bed so we shall see.

As for the long NW. I thought about it being habitual. No matter what he will wake 30-1.5 hours after BT. Usually I let my husband take over while I get a break then eventually go back in and rock him bc he's crying hysterically by then. If it's been more than 3 hours since his last feed, I'll nurse but it doesn't usually put him right back sleep. So not sure what that's about.

[creations]

Bit of a guess really but I think I'd try
WU
A 3hr 15
S
A 3
S
A 2hr 45 - 3hr
BT

I know we've been looking to keep that last A time shorter but as the NWs haven't changed perhaps we've gone the wrong way??
Sorry I know it would be more useful for you if I just had the right answer, I'm just thinking back to when mine was little and most posters thought OT, only 1 thought UT and turned out to be right...sometimes it is hard to work out which it is.

if he had a terrible night (10hrs of sleep or less), do I still go for 3:15 first A?

If this is routine based disturbance then yes, stick to it.  I know teething has been, maybe still is on the cards too, just to add to the confusion.

[JennVanessa1083]

Yes I can definitely give the suggested A times a go today.  Yesterday was out the window because we did a family day trip day so his sleep was all over the play then he woke every 1-3 hours last night. I expected it since he was very OT by BT.

Anyways, is 10 hours night sleep too little for a 7 month old? To me it seems low especially since he used to do 11-11.5 hours not including NW. Am I just being unrealistic to expect the same now or do their night sleep needs dwindle this early? Even when given the opportunity to sleep in he won't and it seems to average out around 10 hours. Or is this accumulated OT?