Figuring out A times and wind down routine for possibly touchy 10 week old

[Tabathagucci]

Ok so it seems her A time needs to be increased to around 2h20 or 25 minutes.  When I put her down at 1h5m she falls asleep at 1h15m fairly easily but sleeps 35 minutes.  When my husband takes her out for a walk in the carrier before nap time she falls asleep around 1h20-25m and sleeps an hour or more.  However, when I try to put her down a few minutes later at home she seems to get OT or OS and then takes forever to settle and sleeps 20-25 minutes.  I think taking her for a walk keeps her distracted yet calm so the longer A time is ok.  How do I manage to do this at home?  Meaning stretch her A time without getting her upset?  I have my other child who can be occupied with the TV while I put her down in another room but I can't take her out for a walk and leave him....

[becj86]

She may just do better with a walk as part of her WD - DS liked to have a walk around outside in the garden or looking at the pictures in the house, I just talked about the leaves or the weather or the picture we were looking at. 1hr 20-25 would make sense as she gets closer to 13 weeks.

[Tabathagucci]

Ok all of a sudden lo seems to be getting overstimulated way easier.  I put her in her bouncy chair in our kitchen/family room area and make it a point to not move too quickly/talk too loud or fast as I'm working in the kitchen but she somehow ends up wide eyed and jerky movements within a few minutes.  Is it possible this is due to leap 3? We're on the tail end.  She's been fighting me for naps hard (seemingly because she's OS), but doing better with the nanny twice a week. The nanny can put her full focus on LO and I can't tho because I have household duties and the 4 year old.  Anyway, not sure if I should add this to this thread or start a new one in general sleep issues?

[FPT23]

Hii again!

It could be OS or OT/UT. If you suspect OS, it's best to keep things low and calm before a nap... Sometimes walkng around the house or outside for about 10 mins before her nap/wind down may help. Or, you can take her to her room and dim the lights, play quiet games on the floor or read a book before wind down.

Fighting naps can also mean OT or UT as well though tricky isn't it!! I know it's hard with other babies around too! Hugs! ....how are the A times? How old is baby now? Just to take a look at the whole picture

Xo

[Tabathagucci]

I always try to stay as calm as possible but even sitting in her bouncy chair 10 feet from where I'm making breakfast (fairly calm and quiet while my ods is still asleep) she gets fired up.  Maybe she's bored and gets annoyed?
Also when putting her down she gets annoyed being swaddled and rocked then when I put her down in the crib she smiles at me and laughs...then takes forever to settle. Can't figure this kid out...
Maybe putting her down too early?  I had to stay in ods class today with her for a bit and got her home late for her nap.  She went down pretty easy! 
She only ever sleeps 25-40 mins.  Occasionally I or the nanny get her back to sleep and she'll sleep 40-60 mins more or longer.  A time is at 1h20m.  I try to head up 20 mins before that and swaddle her 10-15 mins before.  I used to rock her or walk around to calm her down and get her drowsy but that now seems to annoy her so I put her down and out my hand on her chest and reinsert paci as needed...
Maybe I'm missing something???

[Tabathagucci]

Ps she turned 3 months on 5/11

[FPT23]

Hello!

Sometimes those activity centers gets them OS! It's not a bad thing though. They are pretty much learning everything at this age, yk? They are realizing they have hands and feet and how fascinating the world around them is! I think it's pretty hard to avoid OS in general at this stage! .... have you done the personality baby quiz to see your babies temperament? Helps a bit some babies OS easily- spirited babies need to constantly be moved around as they get bored or touchy babies get OS often and it bothers them and need more low key activities, kwim?

At this age, mine is also 12 weeks-- they are figuring out their arms and legs! Mine has recently fought being held too so I had to change it up and soothe from the crib now. Which is better in general I feel as its setting the stage for self soothing and later you can reduce the amount of help to doze off to sleep ....they become super mobile right now (later will be the same when she starts rolling over in the crib, sitting and can't lay down, standing and can't sit down haha so fun huh?) and sleep routines need some adjusting. I find they go down easier when OT too then UT. Just a rule of thumb 20-25 nap is OS, 30 OT, 40/45 UT... I've also seen around the forums how 50/60 minutes can mean OT. Haha lots of info ...

A time is good at 1:20/1:30 ...try monitoring A times and see how she's doing. Consider some quiet/calm A time if you find she is easily OS.

Your doing great!

[Tabathagucci]

Sorry it took so long but I did the quiz and got mostly textbook (eight answers) and then angel (6) with touchy being a close third (5), mostly related to sleep.  I've found that holding her to calm doesn't work anymore either so I put her in the crib and shush and she settles fairly easily, even when OT.  My biggest issue now is the paci so I'm going to start the gradual removal tonight and see how it goes. She needs it to fall asleep and often wakes when it drops.  Sometimes she can keep it In for the whole nap (25 mins).  She still in only sleeps 25-40 minutes but thinking its developmental and I need to just go with it for now.  25 seems to be OT/OS and 35 maybe undertired and 40 right on time... Although one time she went 2 hours between naps and slept 40 mins so who knows...
So now I want to know, how hard to i try to get her to transition through sleep cycles? I feel like if I keep her in the room/crib trying we're wasting our day away... I'm finding it hard to balance getting her some stimulation, getting my son out of the house and also getting her some decent sleep.

[Tabathagucci]

Oh and thanks for the support! 😊

[FPT23]

Gradual paci removal? Intrigued hehe based on my paci post

If answers related to sleep were touchy then that's probably the case. Touchy babies prefer less; less is more with sleep. That can explain not wanting to be held but could be age. Around 3 months they discover their limbs! So sleep changes a bit as far as wind downs etc! Mine is the same... Suddenly hated the swaddle and being held. Still needs his swaddle so we are holding onto it but I've also began to settle from the crib for a few weeks now!

20-25 min naps can mean OS, 30-35 OT, 45-50 or around there UT. At this age short naps are so developmental. Think of it like this: 0-3 months they work on their night sleep (Extending  night hours)... 3-6 they work on their day sleep (extending naps) ...after that it's mainly a matter of other things such as teething, nap transitions, developmental milestones... Etc! Be guaranteed the first year is a lot of up and down but one day your going to find your self capping naps and wonder how you arrived to that!

As far as helping with sleep cycles, you can attempt W2S, or resettling as often as you can. Honestly, the way I do it, is try my best to have the first two naps of the day at home since they are the most restorative. I do what I can (IF I can) to resettle and extend naps. For now that's all I can do! I do not spend more than 15-20 mins trying to resettle or nap. If I do, I just step out bc as you say, it's wasting the day away and it surely is. Especially with a toddler around. I'm the same. I can't keep him alone that long and so often... They get restless too and need to be out and about! I've realized with multiple kids it's another ball game. I had all the time in the world the first time to do this- now I just have to go with the flow and with such little A time too, and such new stuff to them, it's hard to prevent OT/OS yk?

if you decide to work on some ST, you have to commit and stay consistent

Hugs and good luck! Keep us posted

[ireneasheard]

I have a touchy 7 week old - coming up fast to the times you are talking about. I too am very much looking forward to less sleeps and naps even though it means that babyhood would be over. I also have a 4 year old, am lucky my 4 year old is quite patient. He has waited for me while I pat my 2nd to sleep which is really so helpful. A friend suggested a special box or something for when baby is being settled which I am looking into making one up.

But your queries - I would have thought at 12 weeks that awake time would be slightly more but each baby is different. My son is 7 weeks and already awake for 1 hr - 1 hr 15 minutes. The line between over and under tired is so hard 😢 i have not found that putting my son to bed right at the first tired sign has worked well as he resists sleeps. I might start heading up to his room and might pop him in his cot to look around as part of his wind down while move around the room doing a few things that means he is awake a touch longer. It also gives him an opportunity to absorb that we are heading toward sleep time again instead of being put in wrapped immediately which he might not be quite ready for so the adjustment time for him helps (not too long). I'll then wrap him and sit in the nursing chair with him and sing a song quietly before . putting him to bed. This part is getting shorter than even just a few weeks ago as he rubs his face on me when he is ready to be put into his cot. Seems to work for us atm but I guess I'm illustrating our wind down is changing a little as he gets older as he needed me to hold him more to drowsiness when he was smaller.

I also find my son does not respond well to shushing but only to firm patting. Initially shush was fine but it seems to irritate him now so firm patting on resettle works best with him. I'm also about to introduce some white noise as he startles easily when there arr sudden noises.

Anyway. I'm following this post with interest as we are heading into this soon ourselves!

[Tabathagucci]

Here is the gradual removal plan!  Went ok last night although we had some reflux issues that don't usually happen.
PANTLEY'S GENTLE REMOVAL PLAN

So A times are between 1h20 and 1h30 it seems but I have to take her in and out her down early it seems or she gets too OS before nap.  I'm still figuring this out tho because I was trying sleep training with a sleep coach the last 3 days and it was a little too much too fast for me (too much crying for my liking) so I'm putting that on hold for now.
Id like to try to get 2 good naps at the beginning of the day but my son has school 9-12:30 m/w/f so it makes it tough.  I'm lucky if I can extend the nap during school time and if not, I'm lucky if I get another short one in before I have to pick my son up.  I definitely think 25-30 is OS/ot but 40 I think is where she just has an issue transitioning.  She just can't do it during the day.  I try to extend but it maybe happens 1 out of 10 times.  I guess I will keep trying, like you said for 10-15 mins. I was able to get her back to sleep more often during sleep training but I'd be in there trying for an hour which is just too long IMO. 

Irene, sounds like you've got a good start at 7 weeks!  Keep us posted!

[Tabathagucci]

Ok so I can't figure this out maybe someone can help me?  I was working with a sleep coach for three days (which I put on hold for now because I'm not sure I like her methods).  She had me putting her down at 45-60 minutes after getting her up.  The thing is, sometimes she had been awake for 90-120 minutes because I had been trying to get her back to sleep with no success (we were on a specific schedule with feeding and nap times set at a certain time give or take 15 minutes).  She would go down sooo easy.  Even being ot.  Since stopping that, I've been putting her down between 1h and 1h15m after waking and she's totally OS.  So maybe she needs waaaay less stimulation?  The thing is we don't do much during her A times just walk around the house, nurse, do some tummy time and watch my son play and we don't do all of that each A time.  There's jot much time with feedings and diaper changes...  So how can she be THAT OS?  I'm so confused...  I can take her to drop my son off at school (major stimulation because we go in the classroom) and bring her home and she'll go down easy even OT, but keep her home and she's all jerky and takes forever to put down...

[becj86]

Do you think its transition from one activity to another that's more the issue wrt OS? I know L coped much better if there was some link from activity to activity, so bringing a toy from play to bed helped. Was there a difference in pre-nap routine with the sleep coach? Was she feeding closer to nap time?

[Tabathagucci]

Hi!  Thank you...It may be the transition I can try a movie (she's not really into toys yet) but she seriously seems to get overstimulated even sitting in the same place kind of far from the activity.  With the sleep coaching she was feeding sometimes closer to nap, sometimes further away because her naps are so short and feeding was always at the same time.  And the same occurs with us not being on the same schedule.  The only real difference that I can tell is that she was in her room almost all the time except for feedings and some VERY brief activity time because I spent the better part of the day in her room trying to soothe her back to sleep.