Figuring out A times and wind down routine for possibly touchy 10 week old

[creations]

I see no problem with an 8pm BT so long as she's getting rest/sleep rather than super-silly-long A times.

These short naps shouldn't go on for ever, it's a phase lots go through, if you can't link the naps together by extending, using W2S or APOP and they remain short there isn't much else you can do other than offer more of them in the day.

Is LO going to sleep independently?

[Tabathagucci]

Thank you!  She is going to sleep in the crib with the paci in. I sit in the chair next to her bed most of the time but have left the room and she does ok as long as the timing is right.  She generally spits out the paci and is asleep. Sometimes she needs it back, which is why I sit in the chair but she can't see me when I do that. 
I haven't been successful much at extending the naps.  I think she might need an even longer A time but she's literally rubbing her eyes and wanting to sleep as I put her down, yet I still get only 30 mins and no extension or if I do get an extension it takes 25 minutes or more to get her back to sleep and she only sleeps 30-40 more minutes.  The few times I've gotten and easy extension it's been with a long A time in the afternoon on a day where she's had really short naps 20-25 min car naps and we've been out of the house. 

I keep thinking I need to push her A time in the morning but she's already so tired it doesn't seem right...

[Tabathagucci]

Ps her A time is currently 1h50-55 minutes and she falls asleep almost immediately when I put her down and I don't rock her or anything.  I swaddle her, pick her up to burp her one last time, pat her for a minute or two and put her down.

[creations]

If you've had the better success on the longer A time after short naps and feel in your gut that she needs longer then I'd go for it - I'd try an extra 15 mins even though she looks tired.  The problem with UT naps is LO always looks tired but can't sleep properly.

BTW, just my opinion but if you are in the room I'd bet she knows whether she can see you or not. Babies feel the presence of Mummy there, your breathing and such, it's one of the things which I once read helps to regulate sleep and breathing (and I think is why SIDS guidance is to sleep in the same room you are in) although I wouldn't be able to say that for sure.  Whilst it may help in the first sleep cycle if you are then not there during the transition it could effect her ability to transition alone.  Maybe just something to think about.

[Tabathagucci]

Ok I put her down 10 minutes later and she was almost asleep
As I put her down.  I left the room right away.  She pretty much fell asleep right away and the paci would start to fall out and she kept sucking it back in every couple minutes for 5 minutes or so.  I pooped back in to take the paci out once she was asleep.
She slept 30 Minutes and eyes popped wide open. Trying to get her back to sleep now but doesn't seem likely.  Does it take a few times at the new A time for them to get used to it?

[Tabathagucci]

Well it took me over 30 minutes but I finally got her fully back to sleep!  She woke up on and off that whole time... I have been able to get her back to sleep in under 10 minutes but only a couple times before, but like I said it was when we had big days (out of the house all morning). 

[becj86]

Trying to get her back to sleep now but doesn't seem likely.  Does it take a few times at the new A time for them to get used to it?

Yes, it can. Generally if you sneak in at 30min and hold a hand on her that can help her to extend the nap.

[Tabathagucci]

Ok so we're at an A time of about 2 hours at 4.5 months old.  I tried pushing it further and it was just too much.  I'm now getting 35-40 minutes for nap and can often extend when I have time, which is not often. However, I'm getting a wake up 30-40 minutes after bed time every night and it takes anywhere from 5-30 minutes to get her back to sleep.  Would love suggestions as to how to possibly get rid of it?  Here is our typical day:

Eat 6:30
Sleep 8:30-9:10
Eat 9:15
Sleep 11:10-11:50
Eat 12
Sleep 1:50-2:30
Eat 2:35
Sleep 4:30-5
Eat 5
Eat 6:30
Sleep 7pm

She then wakes between 2-4 am to eat and then she usually wakes between 5 and 5:30 and I have to nurse her back to sleep again and she's up for the day at 6:15-6:30.   Would love suggestions on five to 5:30 AM wake up too!

She uses the paci to fall asleep.  I usually put her down awake, swaddled with the paci and she falls asleep on her own within 5 minutes.  I have to help sometimes but usually not.  thanks in advance!

[creations]

How long has it been since you tried to increase the A time?  A week or so can make quite a difference at this age as the A times start to increase quite quickly.  Waking after BT like that mean OT from having a series of short naps through the day rather than some longer naps, it's not just about the A time before bed really, it's about how much and the quality of sleep across the whole day too.
Sorry about the early starts, mine always woke at 5/5.30am too, I was stuck with it for a long time.  Looking back I think if I did it all again I'd push BT later to get a better WU as I was exhausted with the constant early starts and feel I might have let DS dictate the day a bit too much.

[Tabathagucci]

Sorry been a busy week!  It's been 1 week since pushing. Not sure I'm ready to push yet because sometimes she's already falling asleep as soon as I put her down.  We are just coming out of the four month sleep regression so think she's been needing to catch up.  Also, when I stretched the A time before, it didn't seem to help, in fact naps seemed to get a little shorter (30 mins instead of 40).  But I can try I suppose!  I feel like I should wait till a day (or two) when I'll be able to spend time extending naps, what do you think?
I decided to darken her room a couple days ago and since then she's been sleep till 6/6:30 instead of waking at 5/5:30 and having to nurse back to sleep so that's great!  She's now waking between 1 and 3 to nurse and then going till 6/6:30.  Yay!  We're still getting the wake up after going to sleep at bed time and you're probably right about the overtired, but also think it's just her inability to transition at this point. Once she gets past that first transition she's usually fine.
My next issue is how to deal with night feedings and getting her back to sleep.  When I nurse at night I don't burp her and I let her stay latched till she's fully asleep and then I put her back down.  It's worked pretty well but feel like I'm letting her linger too long instead of putting herself to sleep in the middle of the night.  My issue is, if I put her down fully awake she tends to stay awake for an hour or more and I often need to go replug the paci.  So how much is too much in the middle of the night?  What should I be doing to help relax her but not wait till she's totally passed out?  Or is it ok to let her totally pass out and then put her down?

[Tabathagucci]

Example on night feeding, tonight I nursed her at 1:30, she fell asleep while nursing, but I didn't let her fully pass out. Put her down at 2 am, she woke up, gave her paci.  It's 2:45 am and she's fallen asleep twice but then woken up as soon as the paci falls out and I have to go put it back in.  If I wait till she's fully asleep, I usually don't have to go back in at all or if I do, she falls right back to sleep once she has the paci back. 

[creations]

I've never had experience with night feeding like this so my advice is limited really.  I have read that many LOs have no issue with feeding to sleep in the middle of the night if they are self settling for all other sleeps so it is perhaps not something to be concerned about. If the waking and needing to BF started to be more frequent and not clearly linked to hunger then I'd certainly tackle it.  You might want to post on BF or NW boards about it?

[Tabathagucci]

Ok thank you!

[ireneasheard]

Why don't you do a dreamfeed? It would theoretically push the sleep past 2am so you'd have possibly 1 wake up not 2... also at 4 months old I'd have thought stretching to a 4 hour routine would b re more appropriate? Just some thoughts. My son is 3.5 months old and is already transitioning from 3 to 4 hour routine as he simply isn't hungry enough at the 3 hour mark to be feeding? Just some things to think about.

[Tabathagucci]

Thank you!  Once we got out of the 4 month sleep regression she started sleeping longer on her own and going between feeds longer.  She now wakes between 1 and 3 am, sometimes we give her the paci and she sleep till almost 5.  She goes about 3-4 hours between feeds during the day now too.  We were doing 8-9 nursings in 24 hours and now it's 6, sometimes 7.
We tried a dream feed at one point but then she would wake between 1-2 and again at 5 so we just stopped.  She kind of figured it out on her own once the sleep regression ended!  Whew!
Anyway, thank you all so much for the advice and support!  I'm sure I'll need more when the next regression hits!