Author Topic: Figuring out A times and wind down routine for possibly touchy 10 week old  (Read 9767 times)

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Offline Tabathagucci

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I've been trying to put her down early to mellow out in her crib when she's all jerky but maybe that's backfiring on me? I posted in the support for touchy babies thread but not sure anyone's active over there.  I'm really struggling with her.  Every time I seem to get a routine in place that works, it works for maybe 2 days and then it doesn't work all of a sudden.  And I cAnt figure out where I'm going wrong.  I forgot to try the lovie during the transition today.  I think transitions are ok for her early on in her A time but once she hits maybe 45 minutes, things like trying to put her back down in a seat get her all freaked out.

Offline Tabathagucci

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This was our morning...she woke at 7:45, changed, nursed, hung out in bouncy chair while I ate and played calmly with ODS on the floor next to her.  At 45 minutes I picked her up and walked around with her calmly while doing simple things like taking my vitamins and drinking some tea, all moving calmly and slowly.  My husband was getting my son into the car around the 1 hour mark so things got a little hectic but no screaming or anything.  I tried to put her down to get my sons vitamins and she started crying so I picked her back up and got them while holding her.  Then I took her straight upstairs and walked around for a minute calmly, changed her slowly and calmly and put her in her crib with her lovie and white noise on.  I went to the bathroom, came back in, swaddled her (she always fights me on swaddling but wasn't too bad today) and gave her the paci, closed blinds, picked her up to burp her and brief cuddle, put back in crib with paci and sat shushing her at 1h15m mark. She kept laughing and smiling at me and wasn't as jerky but still excited.  Since she wasn't calling down with me there I patted her and left, returned once to replug the paci.  She calmed down but is still trying to sleep and 1h37m.  Wait. She just spit the paci out and is asleep!  We'll see if she wakes.  But regardless, does that wind down sound ok? Anything I should tweak?  She's 14.5 weeks.

Offline Tabathagucci

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She slept 34 minutes and was woken up by the trash truck.  Imagine I would have gotten 40, that's her longest nap!  Used the same exact routine for this time but 5 mins earlier because of short nap and she seems a little more excited.  Maybe I should have done it earlier because of short nap?  But all her naps are short...

Offline Tabathagucci

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Laughed and talked for a long time, went in and held my hand on her chest and kept reinserting paci, she calmed a couple times only to start wiggling and talking again, finally spit paci out and kept eyes closed at 1h45m.  Fidgeted a couple tunes and I could hear reflux, but stayed asleep. Slept 35 mins...

Offline Tabathagucci

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Wondering if anyone can read this and comment?  Sometimes I can lay her down and give her the paci and she'll spit it out after a while and fall asleep.  Other times I have to spend 45 minutes reinserting it because she falls asleep, spits it out and wake up again within a m few seconds or a minute.  I think this happened about 12 times tonight.  It took her over an hour to fall asleep this way and I had to sit there replugging the paci the whole time...

Offline becj86

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Sounds horrid :( Is her reflux bothering her? Waking that frequently sounds like reflux flare to me - maybe a med dosage adjustment is in order if it hasn't happened in the last few weeks - has to be increased with every few hundred grams of weight gain...

Offline Tabathagucci

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Her reflux is not painful so not medicated.  My husband finally gave her her dream feed even tho she wasn't asleep and then she fell asleep so I think she was hungry!  I have a low supply at the end of the day and she is a lazy sucker so kind of gets mad and gives up once it's not flowing fast. I hand express into her mouth but that only gets me so much.

Offline Tabathagucci

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Also wondering if you can read above and see if I need to tweak anything?  This kid is seriously a mystery and what works one time won't work the next. Thanks in advance!

Offline creations

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Hi there Tabathagucci
I have some thoughts which you may take or leave.

I noticed a few things through your thread, a lot of mention of OS, OT, resisting swaddle, resisting nap, laughing or smiling at you at nap PD.  And on the opposite side I read she has gone down easily after a busy school visit, has had one or two exceptionally long naps after being totally OT/OS, is being active and making noise when there are activities at a distance from her, going down easily during the period you had a nanny or sleep trainer in when she was awake 90-120 mins at a time.
As an outsider looking in all of this sounds to me like too little stimulation (US) and too short an A time (UT). I realise I am the lone voice in suggesting this, about 5 years back a lone voice suggested similar to me - and was right.

It seems to me this LO is ready for more stimulation, she would like to be held, spoken to, played with and right in there with the action, being shown things and told about things, handed things to hold and explore (not necessarily toys, many household objects are safe enough to offer, a wooden spoon for instance or a plastic tub).  Rather than signs of OS when she is watching from a distance it may instead be frustration that she is not right in there in the action and being interacted with fully and completely.  Frustration may also be due to activity not being changed when she would like it to be, so rather than too much activity it is that she is ready to move on to something else, and not necessarily low key just something else.

WRT A times, I imagine she is going to sleep somewhat better with increased stimulation but I would also increase the A time and keep it set for a few days to see how it rolls out.  1hr 45 minimum regardless of nap length, so yes even after a short nap.  and possibly looking more towards 2hrs.  In my opinion the naps currently are awful, entirely too short and no good for anyone, and this has been the same situation for some times now so perhaps it is safe to say two things:
- the shorter A and lower stimulation had a chance and didn't seem to help
- how much worse can it really get?  Have a think about what could happen if you try longer A and more stimulation, at worst totally rubbish naps, well that is what she is having already.
and finally on A times, it is actually also okay to go over the guidance times if that is what your LO needs. Mine needed longer than guidance as do many others, those times are only guidance not set rules.

I would keep E times steady rather than automatically feeding on WU, if that means feed times are sometimes closer to nap time that's okay.

I would also watch out for and listen for any reflux signs.  I have also experienced a doc (or several) telling me my DS did not need meds because he was not in pain and was a "happy spitter" believe me there was nothing happy about it, but he politely smiled at strangers so they didn't see the screaming fits.  If you see any signs of reflux or silent reflux, smelly breath or hiccups etc I would return to the doc and be clear you want meds/different meds/increased meds/a referral to a specialist, whatever it takes to get LO the attention needed.

Some things to think about there.
Wishing you rest and good sleep vibes whatever you decide.


Offline Martini~

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Will just say that my DS who in the end was quite an average sleeper (2y4mo now and doing 11-11.5h night and nap of 1.5h), was at 2h of A time at 12weeks. Without it he was doing UT naps (we changed from 4 to 3 naps at that age and from 3h easy to 3.5h). I also almost never shorten A time at that age after a shorter nap. I was too afraid of UT naps which were unresettlable, when if I had and OT nap, I could easily help him transition.
~Marta

Offline FPT23

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Hi I haven't had a chance to catch up but I must agree with the above!

My LO is 14 weeks and now starting longer naps since increased A time and he's been a 45 min napper for awhile now. As I approach 4 mths here myself he's barely starting to increase his naps. Not all but at least one or two. We are Also closer to 2hrs/1:45 A time. I also agree with OT naps being easier to help transition into the next cycle rather than UT naps.

As far as the stimulation, that could very well be spot on too with how Creations put it. My LO seems to get frustrated just laying in his little rock n play... And I think to myself, why? As soon as I get in his face or pick him up he's all smiles and I guess it's what he wants! (Usually when I'm cooking and he's there with me- I think he gets bored!) ..I also want to add that after too long of a drive in the car, he gets upset and I think he just wants stimulation! Talking to him won't do the trick until he looks at me he's ok ::) it's interesting but makes for frustrating drives with a crying baby all the time haha ;) (sorry off topic) My LO seems to also like to be switched from places often. And starts cooing when wanting attention! He might be a handful when he's older it seems ;) haha! Loves all eyes on him and constant stimulation. My first was quite the opposite and super calm... Super suuuuper touchy with too much stimulation... Cried at every loud restaurant, birthday party etc. He liked all things peace and quiet... ;) unlike this one who seems to thrive off extra stimulation! Hates being PD at times just wanting to be held or in the action ;)

Give those suggestions a go for a few days and keep us posted!

Best of luck!!! :D

« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 22:02:35 pm by FPT23 »
Fabi






Offline Tabathagucci

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Wow definitely a lot to think about here!  I will definitely try longer A times (easier for me!!!) and see how it goes.  She seems to need. A super short A time after a series of short naps because once a day my husband wears her and rakes a walk and she falls asleep around the 1 hour mark and either stays asleep for an hour or more or wakes and will go back to sleep writhing 10-20 minutes.  But that's only when walking.  She won't extend in the crib usually.  So it's all worth a shot!
And honestly it makes me happy to hear she's understimulated, I was so worried I had this fragile baby, but whenever I take her places she does awesome!  Never cries unless bored or hungry or hot.  We went to Disneyland today, she hardly slept at all and did awesome!  Sooo...maybe you're all onto something. 
As for the reflux, she never screams.  I think she has been in more discomfort the past couple days from it though because she whines a little here and there and I let her sleep on me this morning after her 4 am feed and it seemed worse than it has in weeks.  I am on a really strict elimination diet (which is why I think her reflux has not been painful) but I've slipped a little the past couple days so maybe that's why.... Will keep an eye on it tho!
Anyway, thank you everyone!!!

Offline FPT23

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You see? Mine too does great out and about w/ that extra stimulation. I had that fragile baby the first time as I mentioned above ;)

Worth a shot!! Positive vibes!!!!

Xo :)
Fabi






Offline Tabathagucci

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Well, being scared to over do it, I started putting her down (swaddled in crib awake) at 1h20-25m mark and she has gone down easy (fell asleep at 1h40m for first nap and 1h30m for second) both times, even putting herself to sleep with the paci for first nap.  Naps are still short, 35 mins for first one so maybe tomorrow I put her down for first nap at 1h30m?  I feel like she still needs shorter A time as the day goes on because she gets increasingly OT but I could be wrong.  I've also increased her stimulation and when she gets bored as it gets closer to nap time I wear her in the Bjorn as I finish up stuff around the house before putting her down.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 19:38:18 pm by Tabathagucci »

Offline creations

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If you try out the 1hr 45 - 2hr first A time there is a chance of a long nap and that would go far to reduce any OT build up through the day.
IMO fear of OT is what often ends up keeping some LOs OT, they need the chance to get really tired so they can sleep well.
I'd like to send you some courage to try :)