2:1 transition with a 1 year old

[Mum2lucy]

Hiya,

I'm starting a new thread here as my lg turned one yesterday (had topic in naps before this). I'm still struggling with the 2:1 transition. She has been on one nap for about a month. She rarely takes a catnap even if she has a bad nap. It's like she can count and knows when she has had one nap 

The last 3 days looked like:

Nw:5.36 (fed)
Wu: 8.04
E: 9.00
A
S 13.05 - 14.35 (woke crying but won't resettle)
E 17.00 dinner
Bt 18.50 (had to shhhh to sleep as kept crying)

Nw: 06.04 (fed)
Wu: 6.45
E: 7.45
A
S 11.22 - 12.45 (woke crying but won't resettle)
Bt 18.20 (tried for 6pm but took me 20mins to get her off, had to shhh)

Nw: 5.05 (quick moan but I didn't have to go in and back to sleep)
Wu: 6.55
E: 8.00
A
S 12.07 - 13.21 (woke crying and I left her for 20mins to see if she'd go back over, she didn't, I tried to get her back to sleep but couldn't
Bt 18.40 (into cot 18.20 but again was upset so I had to stay with her until she went off)

for her nap, she settles beautifully by herself but at bedtime she can't seem to self settle??

I have no consistency in Wu and bedtime. I working on a 5 hour 10mins am awake time (just upped it to 5hrs 10mins today to see if it would help extend the nap). Do you think I should go to set nap and bt? My lg shows no clear tired signs.

My main focus is to extend the nap and try to make bedtime less upsetting for her

Thanks xx

[Truly Blessed]

Hi Hun,

It seems to me that maybe it would work better to look at her first WU as the start of her day (if you can stand that!?) It's really hard to get a consistent day without a set WU time, almost impossible IME. It's possible that if you give her an early start for a short time, and a set nap/BT that you can then shift the WU and get to a routine you want. IIWM even though she refuses 2 naps I would try at least to give her very low key wind down when you would ideally like her 1st nap to be. Would she lie in her cot quietly? This would give her the opportunity to nap but if not allow her to rest. If she gets upset when put down at that time maybe you could sit by the cot initially with no eye contact? Play gentle music or white noise  Does she have sleepy cues?

for her nap, she settles beautifully by herself but at bedtime she can't seem to self settle??

This could be OT by BT so could change with set routine.

What do you think? HTH. (HUGS)

x.

[Mum2lucy]

That morning wake up is different every day too. I don't want to get up at that time but would do it if that's what is best for her. Today she woke at 5.40 and lay quietly until 6:20 so I just left her and started the day then.

she won't take two sleeps and has a long morning awake time to get to the first nap so the second Cn would be a pm one. She isn't the best at going in her cot unless it is the correct time for her to sleep (she won't do under tired nap in cot without a huge 40mins or so fight so I've just stopped doing it as its too stressful for both parties!)

She doesn't have any sleepy cues. For example she'll seem absolutely fine no tired signs etc and then I do the wind down routine for her nap and she'll start yawning and rubbing her eyes but doesn't show that unless it's in her routine?

Do you think I should set the nap time then irrelevant of when she wakes in the morning? I've been working on a 5 hour 10mins awake time. She normally only sleeps for 1.5 hours. If that was going on today's wake up, she'd be awake at 12.15 after her nap which is an awful long time to bedtime even if I made it 6pm! 

[Truly Blessed]

Hello Hun,

I think it's important that you as her Mum have faith in what YOU think she needs too. I know how blinkered you can get when you're in the thick of it, so from what you've said here's what you know:

She doesn't take kindly to being put in her cot unless she is ready.
She doesn't show sleepy signs until you wind her down.
She likes a long first nap and any second nap would be a cat nap.

Going with the above here is what I would suggest:

Wake her up at 5 am (I know! it's harsh but it's short term)

Give her a good long low key wind down from around 4 hrs 15 mins so 9.15 am to try and achieve her nap by 9.45/10.00

Put her in her cot once wound down and sit with her maybe one hand on shushing (if this is necessary? Sorry I know you said she SS alone for her nap but don't know if that is in her cot or not?)

Leave her to sleep until she wakes, hopefully at least 11.15/11.30 (cap at 2 hrs if she happens to sleep longer than usual though)

Try for a cat nap in the cot around 3.00 pm (winding down at least half an hour before as per morning) again staying with her if necessary using only a sleepy phrase and no eye contact. Keep her there for around 20 to 30 mins then abandon if it's a no go.

If cat nap is a wash out try and keep the A time to BT low key.

BT 6.00 pm. Same as earlier in the day, long WD then staying with her with a view to using gradual withdrawal for all sleeps once into her routine.

I think there is an element of ST needed Hun. She sounds to me like she needs routine to set her body clock, especially if she has no sleepy cues.

I would stick with this for several days (at least a week) if you possible can and see where you're at. If it works hopefully she will get over the OT and she will shift the routine herself and start to consistently wake later. In an ideal world eh Ultimately you might look at shortening the first nap and pushing it out later, and the cat nap being around 20 mins until she is older and can pull one long nap.

At least with the early morning and full commitment you should get plenty of you time in the evening.

Let me know what you think.x.

[Mum2lucy]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I appreciate your thoughts but I don't think that's the way forward for her. I've been on one nap for a month now and I feel like messing with that is going backwards rather than forwards and might be confusing for her. Trying for a catnap 3.5hours after a long am nap wouldn't work either as she won't entertain it until at least 4.5hours (I've tried loads).

I've also discovered over time that she doesn't like a long wind down. She likes it quick and then to sleep. For the am nap, she has a short wind down and is asleep within 10mins as I know I've got roughly the correct awake time. She sleeps in her cot for this and ss.

The last three nights she hasn't woken at the 5.30am mark and it has been half 6/6.45 wake up which is much better. she had a short pm Cn one day also as I managed to get her asleep in the car. The short pm Cn when I put her to bed meant she ss well so the other nights when she hasn't must be due to being more tired.

What do you think about a set nap time of about 11.30/11.45 and set bedtime but still having a slightly inconsistent wake up? Would that work? Xx

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

It could work...that is actually sort of what we did once we were on one nap - on my non-work days I let them sleep in as they liked. Gave them a spot to tack on if they needed. One question though...do you think that having a feed at that ew is perpetuating it? ie she expects it at around that time and wakes for it?

[Mum2lucy]

Yes I imagine there might be an element of that. She hasn't had it for the last 4 nights as she's slept through it. Well she has stirred at that time but has continued to sleep through it. The 5.30am wake up if def when she's OT.

If I go to set nap and bt, if you have a rubbish nap, do you still do sebt or do you stick to usual bt and push through to it to regulate their body clock?

I'm back to work in a month so I think I'd be doing what you said about catching up on my non work days.

[Truly Blessed]

Hi Hun,  I bow down to your knowledge of your Daughter and what you have tried before

It sounds like things are improving already, so yes IIWM I would set nap time. Personally I used to set WU also, because with DS the consistency gave us a better nap length, and whenever I tried to allow CU time in the morning or brought BT early it worked for that day but upset the following days, so ultimately I found set times to work best for all sleeps (BT too after a rubbish nap) However, I too had a lot of trial and error to come to this conclusion. The only thing I would say is that whatever I tried I always gave it a good week at least to come to a conclusion before switching it up. Consistency is key.

Good luck going forward Hun. Oh and I agree WRT to feed.

x.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

I have actually never done ebt much less sebt unless my kids are ill...they just would never settle until their actual bedtime so we just dealt with the crankiness if the nap was crappy and pushed through. So really depends what your lo will do, lots are fine with a sebt to make up for bad naps.

[Truly Blessed]

Eeek Heidi! that must have been rough on you!  I was in a different predicament. DS would go down for SEBT and sleep on and on, but the next day was a right palava! lol.

These days at 6 YO I have to drag him out of bed for school. I don't however have to drag him out of bed on the weekends 

I would never have believed there would be dragging of any kind until teenage years when I was going through those 4 am starts to the day lol.x.

[Mum2lucy]

Hiya,

Do you think trying for a Cn on poor nap days is counterproductive when I'm trying to get her body adjusted to only having one sleep?
Thanks!

[Truly Blessed]

Do you think trying for a Cn on poor nap days is counterproductive when I'm trying to get her body adjusted to only having one sleep?

Once again it's trial and error, and depends on how she reacts to a cat nap and if it's counter productive or not. I also know now it depends on what type of parent you are, because many people prefer to dig heels in and ride it out until LO settles into the routine, because all the faffing about drives them insane. Others prefer to take chance on a happier little one and let the next day take care of itself lol. Go with your gut x.

[Mum2lucy]

Hi all,

My lg was sick there for a week and I know it sounds daft but her sleep was great. She was showing tired signs and I went with them and she slept well with a Cn before bed. She self settled every night and slept 12-13 hours at night.

Now she is better and sleep is a mess. I am getting 1hour - 1 hour 15mins sleeps. When I put her down for her nap, she gives hardly any fuss and is asleep within 5 mins. she won't take a cat nap no matter how much walking/car I do. She's OT at bed and won't self settle. I've been trying a 6.30 bedtime but she's still ot. . I'm in a mess again basically and don't know where to go from here?

She did one big nap when she was sick on a 4.5 hour A time but I don't know if I can really use that as an example as she was sick.

The suggestion before was to go to set naps. She is starting nursery soon who do a nap at 12. Maybe I should start set nap at 12?

The past few:

Wu: 7.08
S: 11.38 - 14.52 (I woke her. She had illness at this time)
Bt: 19.07

Wu: 06.45
S: 12.03-13.09
Bt: 19.20 (was in bed from 18.30 and OT cried until then with us shhh)
Nw: 20.40 (short cry, went in and she settled quickly)

Wu: 06.30
S: 11.27 - 12.43
Bt: 18.45 (was in bed from 18.20 and OT cried until then with us shhhh)

Any ideas? Words of wisdom? I feel like I've been stuck in this no routine/ 2:1 transition forever

[zissi]

following as in similar position. sorry no advice!

[Scottishmummy]

Hi again!

Looks like 5hrs A time is giving you an UT nap.

I'd try for set nap as the transition has been dragging on for you..but wonder if 12 is too early if you want a 7ish wake up. Your DD has done higher than average first A time when younger, so maybe try for a set nap at 12.30 & if that doesn't give you a long-ish nap and good night after trying for a couple of weeks, try it later

My DS was older (18mo) when he completed 2-1 but his single nap was 1pm-3/3.30pm (wu around 6) with a shorter A time to bed (7/7.30pm)

ETA- just thought - how many days will she be in nursery and what time will she need to be up in morning to get there? If she's going to be there a good chunk of the week it makes sense to align her nap with the nursery time. A set nap at 12 might work with an earlier than 7 wu. You might also find she is more tired from nursery and sleeps longer when she starts anyway. Nursery has always exhausted my DS.