anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch?

[Layla]

Michelle I think 30mins might be too short for her. She is still fairly young and I think 30mins is really towards the end of the transition. In fact I only did 30 mins with Isabella at 15months for about 1-2 weeks and then she was on 1 nap just before she turned 16months.

[OliverRowland]

Michelle, do you think she may be going through some SA?

[EsMum]

She probably is now after the difficult week we've had!  But honestly, I don't think so.  I thought it was when this started happening a few months ago, but it was only nap 2 we were having a problem with and I don't think SA is that selective.

[chocho]

Hi, thanks for reading!
DD just turned 15 months.  For more than a month, she has been skipping her afternoon nap so last week we started the 1 nap routine.  Before she started skipping her afernoon nap, she usually took 1 1/2 hrs morning nap.  

We push back 1 hour later than her normal morning nap (from 10 to 11AM). At first, she took two hours nap but has been cutting down to less than 1 1/2 hour.  She is more active, excited, and energetic these days and seems to be fine to stay up for 6 hours until we started the end of our day routine: bath, dress, reading, but falls sleep quickly and no wake up during the night.
  
Should we get back to two nap or just let her be?

Here is our routine now:
7:30up
8:00 breakfast
9:30 snack
11:00 nap (only until 12:10pm)
1:00 lunch
3:30 snack
5:30 dinner
6:00 bath, read
6:30 bed time

When we first transitioned her morning nap from 10 to 11AM, she was able to take 2 hours nap and her bed time was 7:30pm.  Since she takes less than 1 1/2 hours nap these days, we thought we should put her down by 6:30, so she doesn't stay up so long (more than 6 hours  )

what do you think? stick with current routine and let her be? or back to 2 naps?
I just can't believe that suddenly she only needs less than 1 1/2 hrs of sleep during the day  

[Layla]

Chocho - believe it or not when they go to 1 nap, it can be anywhere from 1.5-2hrs. I know the misconception is that there will be a nice long 2.5-3hr nap but toddler (which she now is  ) only need about 13hrs in total so if she is doing 12hrs at night, 1.5hrs may all be what she needs. Isabella only did 1.5hrs as well, then it went to 2hrs and now its back to 1.5  . I personally wouldn't go to 2 naps BUT I would be trying to push that nap to 12ish with a 7ish bedtime.....

hth
Layla

[EsMum]

Michelle you would be shocked with SA and how it effects. Some its only naps, some only bedtime, so never in sleeps and lately yeah some only one nap, not other. Dont rule SA out. She may have some SA which then could get complicated from some overtiredness. 

My instinct would be not cut down am nap tomorrow and let am go as long as she does, just to allow her to catch up. This may mean pm nap will be hard to get, but I guess you may need to co nsider some AP, or a car or something.  I wouldnt battle any sleep if possible the next few days and t hen re start since she will be rested.

Its really honestly probably from this whole 10-11 month crap most go through, could be some SA, now o ver tiredess and shes really getting experimented on alot!  So I would get her caught up on sleep, take a break from the fights to sleep (AP the pm nap if you need to) and start a new. 

Hi Stacy,

Re SA, I hadn't heard any of that before.  I'll have to read up on it so I can be a little more sensitive about it in case that's what it is.  I do think she is overtired though - I figured out today that she hasn't been getting 2hrs naptime during the day this week and it probably all caught up with her, hence the day from hell. 

So do you think if I AP the pm nap for a few days it will help her settle and get used to the routine again, and worry about fixing the AP later?

Thanks.

[EsMum]

No, I'm going to do my best not to mess up the morning nap if I can help it.  Hopefully I can keep that one on track and just worry about the pm one!

[texasmom]

Hi girls,
Well yesterday I cut Collin's morning nap.  He woke up at 6:45 (yay!), and I let him sleep from 10:15-11:15 (probably should have woken him at 11 because the p.m. nap was hard to get).  I finally got him down in the p.m. (LATE) at 3:45.  Let him sleep only an hour so he'd go to bed.  He slept till 6:40 this morning (so happy).  I could tell that he was really tired this morning because he couldn't go his full A time.  So I'm going to let him sleep 1.5 today to avoid OT.  We may have to go back and forth for a bit.  I just know that if I wake him today, I'll be pushing too much.  So if he wakes at 11, he'll easily go down at 2:30ish and sleep till 4, which works out well for bedtime.  Then tomorrow I'll probably cut the morning again. 

I thought about you, EsMum, in my thinking all this through because I thought your LO sounded OT.  I read your post yesterday and got scared about pushing Collin too fast.  I bet she will do a lot better once she catches up on some sleep.  Not that I claim to know a THING.  Collin just acts like you described when he gets overtired.  Anyway, I hope your LO rests well today and feels better. 

Sophie,
How is Oliver?  I like your new pic.  Cute! 

Layla and Chocho,
You were talking about overall sleep for the day.  Collin really seems to have cut back on sleep.  I wondered if it is normal.  At what age is 13 hours normal?  He seems to be doing that now, or just a little bit more.  It was like all of a sudden he went from 13.5/13.75 to 13/13.25 h in a day, and sometimes less (but I think maybe because of things being a mess).  I have been worried. 

Brooke

[OliverRowland]

We have had a great run with the 30 min am nap; however, I think we are now entering  a new territory where every day has different sleep needs.  I think gone are my very predictable nap times!  Ever since the morning he woke at 7am instead of 5:30-6am and didn't want his am nap, we haven't had the same day twice!    Anyways he is doing well with few NW and is consistently waking 6am or slightly later.  But naps are not always easy to initiate ESPECIALLY when I put him down.   It is taking me a long time to settle him.  This am DH had an easy time settling Oliver for his am nap at 9:30-10.  But this afternoon the struggled to get him to sleep.  When I put him down in the crib he sits right back up.  I must have laid  him down a dozen times telling him it was sleep time.  I ended up leaning over the rail with my head close to him so he could stroke my hair (which is very short hence the lean way over) and then he fell asleep.  APing, but I don't know what else to do?!
it is heart breaking to know that I have a long hard road ahead of me before the end of this transition.

[debo620]

Oliver Rowland,
I have to admit, I don't quite understand, if he's sitting up at nap time then thats okay. Just do your windown, into crib, and leave!. If my son wants to talk, rollover, sit-up---then I don't interfere. I just leave him be, as long as he isn't crying, then he falls alseep when he wants to.

[Layla]

Texasmom - Jasmine is doing about 11hrs at night and 2-2.5hrs during the day these days (but 2 naps) so although it seems like the've cut ALOT of their day sleep, I do think its normal. I think its great that Colin is sleeping in again - mine has gone back to waking at 5.30am again so I think I might try & push her morning nap till 9.30-10.15 and slowly towards 10am so that she can take the pm nap later, make bedtime later and hopefully fix the EW for once and for all! (who am I kidding, lol).

[M and N's Mom]

EsMum - I agree that your lo sounds OT.  I was thinking back and I think what helped us was giving him LESS A time than I expected.  I had been giving him about 3h before each nap at that age.  Someone told me that since you are cutting the first nap you are not giving them as much sleep, so you don't want to let them get completely tired.  So, I backed it up and started offering 2.5h of A time and it worked. I didn't think he'd sleep then, but he did.

From about 11-15 months we did roughly the following (just changed this week):

wake
2.5h A
40 min nap
2.5h A
1.5-2h nap
3-3.5h A
bedtime

The other thing I noticed was you said you have tried every combination of times you could think of.  Did you change every/most days?  I think you need to stick to the same schedule for at least 3 days to see if they adjust.  For example, I just cut DSs nap to 30 mins...the first few days he was really cranky when waking him at 30 mins, but he seems to have adjusted now as the last 2 days he was okay.

Anyway, good luck with getting past the OT, and just my thoughts for when you try again.

[Isabella's Mummy (Lilab4)]

We are having a rough time at the moment. Layla is halping me out loads, but wondered has been through this and can offer any advice...........

Isabella has been really poorly this past week with teething (I had no idea it could be so bad) she is still miserable, but I think it is now OT as much as pain. She hasn't slept properly through the night for a week and isn't really eating, but she kept to her 1hr nap in the am, 1.5 in the pm for most of it... until the last to days where she resisted her PM nap and ended up with 30 -40 mins in the afternoon and in bed at 6ish. Today she was up at 6am and was so so so tired she went back to bed for an hour at 7.40!!! I really didn't want her to, but in the end I  felt I had no choice. She was desperate to go. She then went down again at 12.15... it's now almost 1pm and I don't know what to do. Do I wake her at 1.5hrs if she doesn't wake herself? Do I leave her because she is so tired? If she is up at 1.45pm, do I try for a cat nap later to put her to bed at 7pm or do I let her go at 5pm? I don't want to reinforce the early times, but also I want her to catch up on sleep. HELP!!!!!!

Thanks for listening x

[OliverRowland]

Debo, we are not at the stage where I can leave Oliver alone.  He started SA early and I have not made it to the point where I can leave when he awake without a major meltdown.  So, I am still sitting in a chair next to the crib.  I guess I panic as we have such a short window to get a nap in without messing up the whole day.  And when he sits up and starts babbling to me, I sit there and fester as I know he is tired and needs this nap!

[Isabella's Mummy (Lilab4)]

Thanks for the advice. She was up at 2hrs and has just gone down now at 6.30.....lets see what the night / morning brings....

She wouldn't have her milk today and ate about 1/8 of her normal intake.....she really isn't herself. 2-1 and molars!!! Arrgh!!!

We are travelling 3.5 hrs to stay with the in laws tomorrow and I'm dreading it. Still, at least she's messed up already!!