Please! - need help with early riser and naps

[debo620]

ok Thanks Stacy---he actually woke at 30min on his own, but woke happy. next nap btwn 12:30 and 1pm you think? I figured out yesterday that if he sleeps well at night, 40min nap=4hrs, so maybe 30min nap=3hrs??

[debo620]

well with that nap from 930-10:00,
I ended up putting him down at 12:45pm---he played for a bit though and fell asleep at 1pm, he only slept the 1hr 20min though. does that mean he was overtired? I think I will move bedtime up a bit, maybe 6:45?,

[debo620]

well Noah was asleep last night at 6:45 but up this morning at 4:30am, I'm thinking that he was a bit overtired at bedtime so really the nap from 1-2:20 yesterday wasn't that great.
it seems as though the afternoon nap has to start/end at the exactly the right time on order to allow for not too much/ but enough A time before bed. I've said it before and I'll say it again... this is just soooo crazy.

[Zaiby]

Here's an update..

We had one nap yesterday of only 1.5 hrs...he went down at 11:30 after having awoke at 6:45 (but this was because of a 5:15 initial wakeup and being soaked - so I changed him, gave a cup of milk and he went to sleep)

I wanted to do the catnap but had to be somewhere at the time - so I thought maybe in the car(yeah right) - but no go, so 1 nap it was..
Bedtime was 6 - asleep 6:30

Today
Wake 4:30 - again soaked (what's the deal with Pampers Baby Dry?) gave milk at 5ish slept again for 30 min
Wake 5:45
Catnap 8:50-9:20
Nap 12:40 (actual sleep time 1:20 - And this was with me "helping" him to sleep - Bad I know - but at the rate he was going - it didn't look like he'ld ever go to sleep - how can he do that?  On only 30 minutes in the am?  I thought about putting him down at just 3 hrs, but he so didn't look/act tired - I just knew he wouldn't sleep - or would he have )...I'm so frustrated - I can't seem to get these catnap/long nap timings right...

SO...I have a feeling you might be right Stacy (about just needind less night sleep etc) - though I'm going to keep trying for another couple of weeks before revisiting..I haven't given up hope just yet!lol

[debo620]

Ok, Noah had good naps yesterday after that 4:30am wake---and I let him, 1hr 20min in am and 1hr40min in pm. he was in bed by 6:45pm and asleep by 7pm
today he woke at 5:10am, first nap 8:40-9:40,he woke on his own and I thought this would be ok since he only had 10hrs overnight.
well I tried for 2nd nap about 4hrs later 1:40pm, he moaned for 20min like he was going to fall asleep, played for 20min and then started crying the come get me cry, tried a bit of "go to sleep now" and leaving but that didn't work. its 2:50pm and I gave up on a nap.
what the heck? he's never done this before? played for a whole nap??
what do I do?
do I just keep on trying every 30min?
try for a catnap at 4pm?
to bed early? which I hate since he'll wake early tommorow?

[debo620]

Hi Zaiby, thought I'd chat with you on this thread instead....
well after the 7am wake-up
Noah was sort of cranky all morning
he went down for a nap easily at 10:05 and slept 30min on his own.
2nd nap at 1:05 or so I thought----he didn't actually fall asleep until 1:20pm and awoke at 2:20pm??
so there you have it.....had about 11hrs last night and 1.5hrs today. 12.5 TOTAL, can't seem to get anymore.
not sure what time I'll do bed tonight, maybe 6:45pm or so?

[debo620]

Oh Stacy, so what is your day looking like with the 30min am nap, I would be ok with it if I could just figure out how to get a good pm nap. Noah only lept the 1hr this pm until 2:20pm and was just shattered when I was giving him his last bottle at 6:20pm----he was asleep by 6:45pm,
what do you think of the approach that Tracy talks about....pushing the morning nap out by 15min every few days until it becomes the pm? does this work? do you think this would work if he has a had a decent night sleep?. I can't really handle this trying to figure out the amount of A time Noah needs after a short am nap, I never know when he's tired...its jut not as easy as it used to be..I wish I could go by the clock but that is not working either to ensure a good pm nap???

I just posted on the other 2-1 nap thread, so my apologies if you already read that...

[debo620]

ok th:anks Stacy,
I have been trying to just keep the am activity time consistant and see what he does, not waking him but letting him wake on his own and go from there.
so:
bed 6:45 monday night
tues woke at 4:30am
nap 8-9:20
nap 1:20-2:55
bed 6:45pm as he was so tired/

wed
woke 5
nap 8:30-9:30
nap attempt at 1:30 but just moaned in his bed, I'm not sure that he slept at all.....was either way by 2:10pm
in bed an asleep by 630pm
woke at 2:30am and talked for 30min or so
started to wake at 4:45 but I fed a 6oz bottle and back to sleep til 7

today
wake 7
nap 10:05-10:35-----maybe this was too early but he was so grumpy and pretty much right out crying...?
nap nap 1:20-2:20??
in bed and asleep by 6:45pm

I should mention that ALL day he seemed to be occasionally rubbing his eyes and burrowing his head into my shouldrer, after waking, 1hr after waking 2hr after waking...is he overtired???

[debo620]

ok thanks Stacy, I used to put him to bed at 7pm everynight, so we have been doing 6:45pm lately. the problem I have with trying to fit in a catnap is that he just won't take one......
and your right, it like always falls at 5pm, we usually eat 5:15pm
so I either take him for a walk and hope that he sleeps, and then risk a later supper which it makes it hard to fit in with bedtime milk and bed...
plus its like minus 20 these days  as you know....

as I said... I think I will just keep up with putting him down after a consistant amount of A time in the morning, which is usually about 3hrs 15min and he is asleep by the 3hr 30min mark and see how long he sleeps. if he sleeps well the night before, he will only sleep for 40min at the most....so he just doesn't get caught up.

I would alo think that a consistant wake time would really help??.....so if he wakes at like 4:30 and I can get him back to sleep, shoould I just let him sleep till whatever to catch up or should I wake at the desired time of and go from there....

[Zaiby]

you know Deb, I think I'm right there with you..granted Riyan is almost 16 mos, but we still are facing the same issues..

This week has been so inconsistant as far as naps go..Thouhg the last couple of days he has had 2.5hrs in the day...I'm starting to think that he is still not ready for one nap and is still overtired, or has become overtired yet again..I just don't know what to do anymore.

Wed:
Wake 7 (after horrible night - )
Nap 12:10 - 2:40
Bed: 7:10 (asleep 7:20)

Yesterday
Wake:5:25
Nap: 9:00-9:30
Nap: 1:00 (fell asleep 1:40) - 3:40 (I had to wake him)
Bed: 8:00 (asleep within 10 minutes)

Today:
wake: 5:10 (only 9hrs )
Nap: 8:20 - 

Should I let him go for the am today and see what he does?  It's early enough that I may fit in another later pm nap - but I'm not sure.  Maybe limit to one hour? or still do 30 min catnap?
I think 7/7:30 is ideal for bedtime for him (as even later doesn't tack on any sleep as much as I would love that)
I am soooooo confused. And Tired.
Thanks

[debo620]

hi Zaiby, Noah had a bit of a restless night as expected and was up at 6am, I'll see how the morning goes....
 If I were you I would stick to as consistant of a bedtime as possible, probably 7/7:30.

ok I just layed Noah down at 8:30, he seemed to be asking me to go to bed...kept on coming up to me and crying and then when I picked him up he rubbed his eyes again, but really he's been rubbing his eyes all morning. so he was really only up for 2 1/2 hrs, maybe he'll need a few days of less activity time and a catnap to get back on track. ??

if he's not asleep within the next 20min or so. I'll just go get him up and do nap at 9:15.

I just want him to get caught up.....whatever it takes..

Stacy, yesterday was the first day I could get him back to sleep, and I went in there basically right  at 4:45am as soon as he stirred, and I offered him his bottle right away, really just a bit of accidental (on purpose) parenting... it did work but that was a surprise.  I don't really think he is waking from hunger though..... also at that point he had only probably had 9hrs of sleep btwn being up earlier etc. If its been 10hrs its a different story.
I am not really sure I want to continue with a bottle habit.....KWIM?

ok, its 8:50 am and no sleepies and starting to complain, I figured I'd just get him up and try again in 30min or so, he might aswell burn off some energy out here....

[debo620]

ok, I had Noah in his crib for 9:25, he had sort of gotten quiet----but not cranky anymore, a bit of yawn during windown, he quite happily played for 15min and then fell asleep at 9:45am, maybe he'll sleep 40min?  its gotten a bit late for him to sleep any more then this as his afternoon nap will fall too late but... I think I'll let him sleep for however long he wants....really our routine is so messed up right now I don't think it matters....

[Zaiby]

I think you guys are right - I'm going to try and stay consistant with 7:30 bedtime and see if that changes his wake up time at all..
Until then, he's going to need 2 naps for sure...and hopefully at times that can get him to set bedtime...
I'm not even sure why I started trying to transition - maybe becasue I thought at his age he should be - but if I can't get him to sleep later, then there's no way - unless we do the early long nap - but then getting to bedtime will be rough as he doesn't catnap in the stroller/car...

Stacy - Kelly(zandersmummy) suggested milk to get him to get back to sleep in the morning what do you think?
I did check out the thread on this board about toddler early wake ups, and they have some ideas - W2s - which scares me quite frankly and that he doesn't wake up the same time everday or cold turkey to one nap at 11/12 for however long, PD - but he's not really crying usually, wi/wo again not crying, but will if he sees me...leaving him until a certain time - does that acutally work as is hasn't so far... etc..
I'm not sure what to try first, though..and suggestions?

TIA, and thanks for putting up with me and my confusion...

[Zaiby]

that would be great if you could talk to Kelly, Stacy - thanks...
Yeah - he was doing fine on naps - just that his A times between naps were getting longer and so I thought it might be time.
I just need to fix this early wakings first - you are right - he's been doing this forever..

As far as bedtimes..
He woke today at 3:30 from a 2hr pm nap - Bedtime 7:30? No matter what time he wakes up I should keep 7:30?  What if he's not tired? Or it's been too long since pm wake up?

THanks a bunch
Z

[debo620]

totally know what you mean about the early am milk.... not really a longterm solution to the early wake.
I honestly am perfectly ok with 7pm-6am, as I am going back to work in 3weeks part time and have to be at work by 7......but I can't fit two decent naps in with this, and thus I think if I find the right combo of shorter am/longer pm we will be back on track. Definately not interested at this point in 1 long nap-----especially because the LONG just isn't there and he can't handle the awake time til bed.