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SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: *Jo* on April 27, 2010, 09:41:45 am
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so we are at 5 hours A time but still only having a nap that is 1 hour 15mins -1.5 hours long, so our day gets shorter by 30 mins everyday which means wakeup gets earlier by 30 mins everyday, i thought this was annoying at 4.5 hours A time but this is getting really annoying, does anyone else have this issue?
Ive been waiting three months for a long nap, im starting to get resentful about this with him.
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Hi Jo,
Sorry to hear it's rough for you at the moment. Has Caleb always been low sleep needs? I'm just wondering if even though he might be able to handle long A times sometimes, he can only do that when the deep OT is sorted out? Does that make sense?! For example, Ben was taking shorter naps and shorter nights recently, and one option I tried was stretching out his A times to 'push through' - and although we got the odd long nap - the majority of the time we were getting short naps, shorter nights, and I could tell by his behaviour, bags under his eyes etc, that he was OT from the last few weeks of one nap. So rather than it being specific A times that I concentrated on, I started lookign at the bigger picture of the last month or so. I spent about a week really doing everything I could to try and catch him up - lots of two nap days, APOP short naps in the car etc. Also giving early nights where I could. That seemed to catch him up so that he could handle some longer A times. But I have still been throwing in some two nap days when I think he needs them.
Just reading the end of your last thread it does seem odd that he sleeps fine at night but won't transition during his day time naps - this could be OT as he will be less relaxed to sleep through sleep cycles (I find that if I push Ben's A time a bit much he will often scream at 45/50 or 1hr20 mins and it is a gamble as to whether he goes back to sleep or not). Is his room pitch black for nap times, and could you try using some white noise to blank out any other daytime sounds?
When did things start going pear shaped with his naps? I can't remember what he used to be like - and why you started transitioning him early, was he a nap refuser? It just might help some new people spot something that might help!
:-* :-*
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hey jo
hope you are well
this is sooo tricky at this age isnt it...I have set my dds naptime to 12pm no matter what and I get nap lengths varying from 1 hr 10 to 2 hrs 15 (when I wake her up!!) I did get one 30 min nap but all in all its not too bad - bedtime is set at 7pm and thats that - no changing times just simple 12pm nap, 7pm bed - if wake is 5.30 then its still 12pm nap - I had a few bad days at beggining but was advised to ride it out for at least 7 to 10 days and body clock will adjust and sure enough it did...
this is my super touchy dd that had an A time of 3 hrs 45 before going to one nap!! I was getting NW and EW all the time so had to do something and with work it was just impossible to get her to bed earlier than 7pm so this seemed like a good idea - its not always simple cos somedays she will only nap 1 hr 20 so bedtime is a little OT and she sometimes rolls around for 30 mins before sleeping but she always seems to adjust after a bad day sleep or night sleep - after a few days shes back on track roughly!
I too found that wake time was just getting earlier and earlier and because of all the messing with A times I am now stuck around a 6/6.30 wake up wheras it used to be 7/7.30 tho 6.30 is a massive improvement on the 5.30 I was getting with tweaking A times!! (tho I still get maybe one 5.30 wake up a week!!)
anyway thought id share as you always so kindly help me ...might not be for you but an idea??!!
good luck
Annette.xx
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Hi there Jo, maybe he needs a top heavy routine, that is a longer AM A and then a shorter A to bed. Lots of LO's are like this. Have you tried more than 5 hours? I would even go to 5.5 or 6 and see what he does. We only got a long nap out of Finn by pushing that first A really hard.
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thats a great idea from wendy cos the only way I got jas sorted was to ignore that EW and go from 5.30 straight through to 12pm so ended up 6.5 hrs A time!!!! and even now she wakes 6/6.30 so its always 5.5 to 6 hrs A time before that nap and then 4 hr 45 - 5 hrs before bed!
Annette.xx
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Have you tried more than 5 hours? I would even go to 5.5 or 6 and see what he does. We only got a long nap out of Finn by pushing that first A really hard.
This was the same for us.. although I'm now starting to think my DS is going to be a morning rather than afternoon napper!
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Has Caleb always been low sleep needs? I'm just wondering if even though he might be able to handle long A times sometimes, he can only do that when the deep OT is sorted out?
When did things start going pear shaped with his naps? I can't remember what he used to be like - and why you started transitioning him early, was he a nap refuser?
I don't know your background, but I'm thinking along the same lines as Claire. At 15 mo, I tried several one nap days with my LO, and just like you they were all around 1 hr 10 min to 1.5 hrs. It just wasn't enough to get her through the day. So, we went back to 2 naps, with some of them having to be AP'd (ie. short CN in car on days she wasn't able to do it at home). We then switched to one nap at 17.5 mo, and it started at that same length, but within a couple weeks was lengthening out. I did a set time at 12 pm, like Annette has mentioned and it really did work. Then, my LO started getting her eye teeth (yes, very late at 18 mo), and the one nap started shortening again and OT crept in quick. So, now at 19 mo, we are mostly on one nap days (anywhere from 1.5 hr to 2.5 hr, but with 1.5 hr being the most common, and some still shorter). But, when she wakes early (between 5:30 and 6 am), I still do a morning CN and longer one in the afternoon. I know most people think that's not appropriate for a 19 mo old, but it's the only thing that helps my DD not to get completely OT. If I push her to one nap when she's not ready, she will sleep only 30 min to 1 hr and wake up screaming mad.
So, after all that being said, if it doesn't work to push him out as others suggested, I would try a couple days with a morning CN and a longer afternoon nap, and just see if it helps. You may only need to do one here and there, or you may need to do a few in a row to get him caught up, if you do think he's OT. To me, it just seems that after 3 months, you've waited long enough and it doesn't seem to be lengthening.
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Just reading in and I have to agree with several pp's. We pushed out the morning A time and get 2-2.5hr naps (sometimes more ;D). We were getting 1hr 15min naps on the dot until I pushed out to 5.5hrs A time. We also go with a 12pm nap time even with a 5:30 wake up which doesn't happen often unless teething, immunizations, or sickness upsets our routine. In the beginning there were some days when my LO just couldn't take anymore A time in the morning so I'd put her down anyways and get a short nap but then I'd try again the next day.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
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hi ladies, thanks for all your wonderful advices, unfortunately Caleb doesnt do well with set times, ive tried it a few times, hes a kid that needs to go with tired signs or the current A time he is at. ive tried two naps, in fact i tried two yesterday with a long drive in the evening at the time he shouldve gone to sleep anyway (5.30pm) and he still didnt fall asleep in the car. the APOPd catnap only works a handful of times. i cant do short catnap in the morning cos then he still refuses his PM nap and what a mess we are in then!
he went to bed at 8pm last night (so a 7 hour A time in the PM) due ot the fact we were visiting family (hence why i tried to get a catnap in the car out of him so he could handle it) he was fine but woke once at 5.30am, at these recent nightwakings all i have to do is come in, tuck him in and he goes back to sleep, but he woke up at 7am so an 11 hour night after a 1 hour 15min nap.... not happy about that.
I tried to push his A time yesterday but we were in the car so try as i might, he fell asleep at 5 hours A time, which we have only just jumped to.
Ive tried putting him down earlier for naps and he refuses them too. he definately needs more sleep at least during the daytime, hes a wreck at the end of the day
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i cant do short catnap in the morning cos then he still refuses his PM nap and what a mess we are in then!
When was the last time you tried this? I would have thought the exact same thing with my DD, but it turns out that when she is OT and a little touchy from teething that she definitely is able to do the short CN and still nap in the afternoon. I completely understand if you don't want to try, though; the resistance to that pm nap is frustrating!!
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the last time i tried was awhile ago, it never worked for us we always had to do long AM/short PM for him. his room is darkened, always has been, he wont sleep in a room thats not dark, tried white noise last night and he still woke up at 5.30am and 7am so that doesnt help
Ive just stretched him to 5 hours 20mins and put him down for a nap. the funny thing is that while we are out visiting people (we are on holiday at the moment) he shows tired signs really early so i take him home (cos i gather hes also had enough of socialising) and we get in the car or at home and hes fine, tired signs almost gone.
so all in all we are getting about 12-13 hours sleep in a 24 hour period, i dont think thats enough for this age is it?
We have just gone through molar teething in the past few weeks (all 4 at once) so his A time was a bit skewed at that, he even got down to 3.5 hours A time at one point and teething doesnt usually affect his A times at all so i know they were bad. hes still a bit grumpy, i would like to hit that whining on the head, i figure its due to not enough sleep, hes doing alot of activity and not enough sleep to cope with it I feel.
Hes always been average sleep needs, not low or high really that i can think of. his A times have always been a bit higher but then they stabilize for quite awhile.
so heres hoping todays nap is better, im tired of only having roughly an hour to myself everyday, i rush around like a mad woman trying to get everything done in that short amount of time and then hes up and i get no rest cos he wants to play
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Well, if he's done with the molars, then pushing that A time out might really help. With molars and now eye teeth, I'm noticing quite a difference in A times on certain days. I've also found that when we're not at home (vacation or not), everything is so different, it's tough to read DDs cues well, so that may be part of the confusion on his tired signs (maybe he just needs a break from the action?).
so heres hoping todays nap is better, im tired of only having roughly an hour to myself everyday, i rush around like a mad woman trying to get everything done in that short amount of time and then hes up and i get no rest cos he wants to play
I soooo hear you on this. That short break is not enough and I end most days wiped out!
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OMG! its coming up 2 hours and hes still asleep!!!!!
ok he just woke up, so 1 hour 50mins in total, how awesome is that!
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Just wanted to pop on here and give you some *hugs* Jo!! I hope you're onto something, judging by that last nap :)
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Jo I just wanted to say that some of them just never nap longer. My DS was like this, and we've had times where we'll get good naps for maybe a week but the reality is that he's just not that long of a napper. Hang in there though, it does even out when they finally get to a place where they just don't need as much sleep. Now anything over an hour is good for us and T still sleeps well at night. There's only so much tweaking you can do, so much of it is personality. ;)
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Jo, we are in a very similar place to you. At the moment even an hour would be good but I think there is a lot of truth to what Martina is saying. Hope that good nap was a sign of things to come x
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Agree with all these fine ladies too BUT I also look at my kid who does a great nap now (after months of pure crap) and only gives me short nights, always has, no matter what we do. So sometimes you don't get both, long naps and long nights. However, I would still proceed with your slightly longer A time and see what he does. 1 hr 50 is better than 1 hr 20 - but not if it starts cutting into your nights :-) It's a fine balance between what they need to be bearable during the day, but also get a decent night.
But I certainly hear you on the not having any Y time, at least now my Y time is at work lol. Not quite the Y time I had in mind but hey.
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yes i was wondering about how the nights would go, when i used to extend his naps to two hours wiht patting i would still get a 12 hour night, however last night i had 4 NW's and an 11 hour night but i think hes coming down wiht a cold, i could hear him struggling to breathe on the monitor all night and hes been sneezing and coughing alot so thats a whole other ball game! will see what todays nap does
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hes been sneezing and coughing alot
I blame the airplane! lol
Yeah you can't predict or really have any expectations when they are ill. Poor wee man.
Let us know how it goes.
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so yesterday we got a 1.5 hour nap so its dropped back again and then a 10.5 hour night!!! 6am!!! Im so freaking tired, i feel like this hasnt really been a holiday for me at all, i have a tired headache, theres just no time in the day for me to actually rest!
so what should i do today? stick to 5 hours 20mins again or go to 5.5 hours or go shorter seeing as he had a shorter night (i have found this doesnt always affect him too badly but he is at the beginnings of a cold so that could affect him)
I dont even have time to go to the toilet! the place were we are staying is not baby proof at all so I have to watch him with everything, so i need to wait till he goes down for a nap to go to the toilet if you know what i mean. the people dont have kids here so when he woke at 6am he was only moaning, loudly, so i couldnt leave him to moan and whinge like i do at home, as there bedroom is right next to his and of course all i heard about this morning was how he was awake at 6am and i was thinking "yeah but im the one that got up to him, at least you got to go back to sleep till 7am"
grrr i just snapped at him because i need to go to the bathroom and i am gonna have to wait 3 more hours to go and im getting upset.....
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Oh Jo, I'm sorry things are a bit all over the place. Can the people you're staying with mind him for a bit?
I reckon stick with the usual. I would've said longer if he'd had a good night and no cold but given he's not quite right I wouldn't push it.
Thinking of you hun :-*
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unfortunately they work so they cant watch him, i did actually go to the movies last night while the husband stayed home and watched Caleb, but Caleb was asleep so i had no worries there. i feel kinda selfish now, i mean at least i get a good night out of him most nights, its just that im so shattered by the end of the day i just crash, hes actually a really good boy i just dont have the energy to play with him and i think he gets bored and whinges which then gets on my nerves and i start to get resentful of the fact i cant even do the dishes without him hanging off me moaning. i am just hoping for a really decent nap out of him today
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hugsss to you Jo. After months of EWs, NWs, and short naps, we are now at 2h nap and probably 11.5h night but NWs due to illnesses and probably about to be sorted as DS is almost recovered. But then molars... argh..
What I noticed from DS was not just A time but the kind of activities he does. He needs to get his energy out and since he started walking, he gets nicely tired and I think that's how he started taking longer naps.
Would that be something application to Caleb? I know the feeling. I'm so sleep deprived all the time that I came down with 3 viral infections in 2 weeks!! :( Still trying to recover. Hugssss to you
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Sorry to hear of your troubles- sounds like us during the day too.
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Glad you got a bit of me time. Fingers crossed for a good nap.
L xx
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he woke up at the 50 min mark, took me 10mins to pat him back to sleep and he slept a total of 1 hour 20mins, then we had a 10 hour night, so up at 6.20am, im not happy, in fact i was crying over his cot this morning about it,im SO tired
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Oh honey I am so sorry and wish there was something I could do to help. Do you reckon you could go for 2 naps - would he do that? Even an AP in a pushchair (I assume you have a pushchair with you?)
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no point today, we fly out tomorrow morning and have to be up at 3.30am! so will be giving him an early night, hes fallen asleep now at 5 hours A time, exhausted.
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well he slept 1.5 hours, and hes in bed asleep at 6.30pm, gosh i cant wait to be home again, i miss my husband so much.
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oh Jo!! Safe trip home and I hope that your DH can give you some help and things would improve with Caleb. hugssssss
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Safe trip home and I hope that your DH can give you some help and things would improve with Caleb. hugssssss
Ditto
Hope you have an ok journey back.
Post when you get a second. :-*
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ugh! what a day, got Caleb up at 3.30am and he fell asleep at 7.05am for half an hour on the plane, then he fell asleep in the car and we transferred him to his bed, he woke up at the 50 min mark (surprise surprise) and i patted him back to sleep where his total nap was 1.5 hours long. hes really strange today, throwing massive screaming tantrums where he is hitting me in the face, doesnt want to go anywhere near DH, screams if he takes him, poor DH thinks Caleb has forgotten him. im so tired i just want to cry, i nnearly passed out in the store earlier so im about to take a nap but Caleb onlly wants me, is this normal? hes been fine all week pretty much with everyone else but hes never been like this with DH.
so we are aiming for a second nap later today, not sure what time though because hes instantly tired as soon as hes awake due to the short night so going by tired cues isnt going to help at all.... *sigh* im not going overseas again without DH.....
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:'( perhaps get DH to take DS out for a walk in the pram or something?? Caleb might be OT and OS and teething and all :( Just so tough!! hugsssss
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Hugs Jo
I wouldn't worry too much at this point. You've gotta remember little Caleb has been through a lot in the last week or so. 2 plane trips at odd times, a time change - twice and probably just starting to get into a routine somewhere else and is now back home. He may have a bit of clinginess as you are his only constant - iyswim?
I know you're tired but if you can get through the next few days I think you'll get there. Just do as much as you can with DH too and get DH to do stuff with Caleb whilst you're still in sight.
:-*
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Yeah I wondered if I was the only co stanat and that's why he was clingy, DH took him for a walk in the stroller to help him fall asleep and it worked fine and he had another 55min nap then early to bed, he woke up once at 3am and I just went in, pulled he blankets up and left, I'm figuring he needs me to reassure him I'm still there just at the moment. So he was asleep by 5.45pm last night and awake at 5.05am, DH got up to him (he actually really wanted to!) so I went back to sleep. I must admit it's been a crazy couple of days, I think I might be doing a bit of APOP till things settle down.
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that's good!! sounds like things are starting to improve already!! great job!! get some rest yourself :)
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Yeah I wondered if I was the only co stanat
lol i am brain fried, that was meant to be "constant" :)
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Quote from: Calebsmummy on Today at 04:23:40 AM
Yeah I wondered if I was the only co stanat
lol i am brain fried, that was meant to be "constant"
hahaha i did wonder what that might mean and thought it must be my english :P
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Glad things are picking up. Yes just APOP what you need to at the mo and then get straightened out soon. :-*
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Jo when we went overseas we had a big adjustment coming back and a big fat case of SA. Then when we moved house the same happened again and that was one of the times I ended up sleeping on his floor. These LO's are just objecting to and dealing with the change I think. So APOP sounds warranted in my opinion.
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well he also now has an ear infection in both ears and then this morning hes woken up with a full on cold, this of course was at 5am that he started his day! i managed to APOP the second nap yesterday and his bedtime was 6.30pm so i wasnt really expecting him to wake so early this morning!
it seems to be the second nap i need to APOP only, as hes so used to only one nap, he only had one naps per day while we were on holiday, so we cant get a second nap wihtout APOP, but how am i gonna get his wakeups back to normal? this 5am business is rough lol, i cant really stretch out his day much longer, hes still taking short naps in the day (yesterday was 55mins and 40mins long)
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this 5am business is rough lol,
Welcome to our life lol
I wish I had some advice but really it's survival mode when they have an ear infection etc. But I know that Finn bounces back really quickly, his meds only take like a day or so to kick in and then he's all back to himself. What about APOP back to sleep at the EW? Or if you sleep on his floor - go in when he wakes and just tell him to go back to sleep while you lie there with eyes closed?
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WEndy - I wish that would work but pretty much as soon as we are in his room if its been more than 10 hours sleep he will stay awake so we try to prolong going in as much as possible until its an actual cry. sleeping in his room wont work either, hes just one of those kids it wont work for, if he knows im in his room he will want me even more...
well ive just given him nurofen for the ears and cold, just put a vaporiser on in his room and put some olbus oil on a hanky near his bed to help him breahte better, lets hope we get a decent nap out of him this morning!
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I wish that would work but pretty much as soon as we are in his room if its been more than 10 hours sleep he will stay awake so we try to prolong going in as much as possible until its an actual cry. sleeping in his room wont work either, hes just one of those kids it wont work for, if he knows im in his room he will want me even more..
Yep same here. It's tough isn't it. Better to just leave him to it then, will he play in his room with some toys in the cot - you could try putting stuff he hasn't seen for a while? At least he's getting 'rest' if not sleep at that early hour.
Hope he gets back on the sleeping wagon soon!
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nope, tried toys, doesnt even bother with them, he just cries out. he hardly every wakes up "happy" im getting really sick of his waking up cry, its like a cough which then escalates into a cry, annoys me! he just slept an hour and 15 mins for his nap, woke up at 11.20am so its a long day till bedtime grrrr
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At least it was a longer nap... *try* and get an afternoon nap and then a later bedtime. More hugs to you. Hopefully Caleb will feel better soon.
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oh poor Jo and Caleb. For us, when there's an ear infection, at least DS slept during the day a lot!! Doesn't Caleb feel sleepy? I hope the day will go smoothly
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Nope he refused the PM nap completely, I got so mad I yelled at him and walked away, leaving DH to deal with him. Bedtime was 6.30pm and he woke up at 5.30am. I'm so over it, completely over it! I'm sick of feeling mad at him all the time, what's wrong with me and why can't I just deal with it? It's not only the sleep issue it's everything about him at the moment, I can't take him anywhere, he won't listen to me, he doesn't want to be in a stroller or trolley he only wants to walk but as soon as hdeepes he just runs away, he won't hold my hand, he throws tantrums all the time and I'm trying to figure out what's going on! I'm trying to catch him up on sleep to help him be able to cope better during the day but it feels like I'm pushing uphill and sliding backwards!
Then I feel resentful toward him because if he would just only sleep!!!!!! Then we could get through this I'm sure. How can one little thing like sleep (or lack thereof) disrupt a whole family?? Now poor DH has come down with a cold so I need to look after him too!
I feel so lost with Caleb, everything is a battle with him
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More hugs your way Jo. I completely empathise with you. I understand why you are mad and just want to say don't beat yourself up. You're tired and he's tired. One thing that has helped me push through my mess is fairly fixed times for everything despite EWs and NWs and bad naps. It's literally been the only thing that has helped keep me sane as that way I knew nap time and bed time was "x" and I'll just *try* to accept the rest. I wonder if you should fix nap time for the next few days so at least you are avoiding the stress of trying to get 2 naps and see what happens. If only tog ive you a break for a bit. Say noon nap and 7pm bed?
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Calebsmummy,
I'm so sorry your having such a battle!! I too am crazy these days with my LO#1. She's a very very late teether (22 months and still has 8 more teeth to come in) and has been OT for many many weeks. She's out of control as well and I have a new LO to care for. Its about given me a break down!!
She goes bonkers while I'm trying to feed or care for the baby and has terrible tantrums. I can't control both of them when we go out, so we aren't going out much these days.
The only thing I can say that I do is to give her stroller naps. She's doing the 2-1 transition very late and its not going well. She's very very high sleep needs!! She sleeps well at preschool 2 days a week but NOT FOR ME!! So towards the end of the day when she's bonkers I take her and my newborn out in my jogging stroller and run until they both fall asleep!!! ;) It seems to help her a bit. But every day is crazier than the last!!
So good luck and I hope it starts to get better for you!!
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Babybarr,
By fixing naps and bedtimes does it make their body adjust where they start taking better naps and less EW's? My DD 22 months is working on her eye teeth and has been OT for so long now. She's a late teether and has been getting 2-3 at a time constantly now for 2 months. Its been bad.
She's finally napping for a hour every day and goes 12 hours at night some nights. But we still have days of EW's and she's EXHAUSTED every day by 9am due to the teething and EW's. But I can't get her back down in the mornings. When will she sleep to make it up???????????????????????????
I feel like screaming 'sleep child just SLEEP'!! I understand Calebsmummy, its soooooooooooooo frustrating!!
(sorry Calebsmummy, I don't mean to hijack your post!!)
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By fixing naps and bedtimes does it make their body adjust where they start taking better naps and less EW's?
I can't comment on EWs particularly, but I do think that if they get used to sleeping at a particular time for a good week or so it *can* help, not necessarily always, but when my DS was on 2 naps fixing the nap time stopped my bad 45min napper from short napping. I guess it "trains" their body to sleep at a particular time. I would also play things a little by eay but it has helped me stay sane if no amount of tweaking or trying to APOP a nap works. iyswim?
Laura xx
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One thing that has helped me push through my mess is fairly fixed times for everything despite EWs and NWs and bad naps. It's literally been the only thing that has helped keep me sane as that way I knew nap time and bed time was "x" and I'll just *try* to accept the rest.
Ditto. I have been a much happier camper since doing that. No more A time - it just it is what it is, x & y like Laura says. I know you say Caleb has to be driven by A time but really you will be surprised how quickly they adjust to set times. It's how the daycares all make it happen. And it helped ME which was paramount to me helping HIM, IYSWIM.
And then when things even out - you can see where the chips have fallen. Go back to 2 naps or tweak the A time so it suits.
Hang in there Jo, we're only at the toddler years, we have to make it through the terrible 2's lol
And extra hugs because it's doubly hard when everyone is sick, I can totally relate these days.
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And it helped ME which was paramount to me helping HIM, IYSWIM.
Just want to say I totally agree with this, because I've been there. Some days you just have to do what is best for you, and like Wendy mentioned, see where the chips fall. If you're going crazy with it (which I do a lot too), it's always harder on both of you. I would give the set time a try too. If it were me, I'd probably wait a bit until he felt better, as I find DD doesn't do well at all with a set time while ill or teething, but when she's well, it really worked and was better for both of us.
How can one little thing like sleep (or lack thereof) disrupt a whole family??
Been there too! It's tough, that's for sure, but keep your head up and remember to take care of yourself too.
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Thanks ladies, I'm just so scared of set naps as we had tried it previously and it was total disaster but he was under 12 months at that time. Just wondering how you figure out what set naptime to have??
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Hi Jo, you don't have to do set times forever, just if it helps you to stress less for a while then it's worth it. It *should* at least stop you getting as frustrated if you can't AP a second nap etc.
Can you think of a time he was napping well on one nap - and what time was that?
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um i think it was about 11.30am but that was when he was waking at 7-7.30am so thats only a 4.5 hour A time and hes up to 5 hours 20mins so would i just do it until hes back to his old 7am starts? cos these 5am starts are killing us!
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Ok I would stick with the 11.30am nap for a good few days 4/5 and see what happens. You can then decide whether you want to go back to A times etc then.
Loving your new pic btw!!
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hehe thanks :)
well i forgot to say as well that today we had a great nap, he did wake at the 50min mark and i did pat him back to sleep but he went back to sleep and slept a total of 2 hours. in bed just now at 6.50pm so hoping for a good night! Im gonna wait till we are at a semi normal wakeup time before doing WI/WO for the 50min pat if necessary
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that's a good plan!! Good luck with it. I typed a long post about set nap time but then it's lost grrrrrr... sounds like you got a great plan already, so I won't bother retyping it.
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blast, dont ya hate it when that happens!! :)
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blast, dont ya hate it when that happens!!
Yep - which is why I have started to copy my post before pressing the post button!
Jo I think that sounds great. Good luck for tonight and glad you got a great nap. I wouldn't worry about the patting until things have evened out a bit. :-*
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Jo it sounds great. And it doesn't have to be forever, you can reevaluate when he's a bit caught up and sleeping in a bit later.
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well last night went well, down to sleep at 6.50pm and up for the day at 5.50pm so it seems we are inching forward in 20min lots each day which i am happy with as long as it doesnt go backwards! lol hes majorly cranky today and now hes up to his normal A time amount, im a bit scared to keep pushing it for another hour and a half till 11.30 eeeeeeek, i need some hand holding today lol
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I know you're really trying for that set nap time, so don't want to hinder that, but if you feel like he's just not going to make it, you could always go for 11:15 or so. I've found that 15 min can really still make a big difference here. Hope it goes well for you!
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calebsmummy,
Just wanted to offer some encouragement. My LO is doing pretty good with fixed nap and fixed bedtime now. Its been a couple months of OT hell from teething and 2-1 transition. But it seems as if her body is figuring it out. Tonight she even asked to go to bed!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She kept saying 'tired, night night' and holding her bear. So I was like 'Do you want to go to bed'? And she crawled upstairs and into her bedroom!!!!!!!!!! I couldn't believe it!!!!!
I sure NEVER thought it would get worked out!!!!! Its been soooooooooooooooooo hard here!!!!! Ahhhhhh! And I have a new LO as well. Its funny that my toddler has been more work then my baby!!! ;) LOL!!
Hang in there. His body will just 'get it' one day. :)
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well i counted wrong! it had only been 4 hours A time when i wrote my last post! so ive just put him down to bed now at 11.30 and his total A time is 5 hours 40mins, so only actually 20mins more than normal and hes crying, he doesnt usually cry at all when i put him to bed so i guess hes not handling even 20mins more :( i think im gonna have to go in and pat him to sleep now.....
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Sorry to hear that Jo. A question for you - is crying at nap time/bed usually OT? Only ask cos when my DS started this I assumed OT but he actually was just stressing at me cos he wasn't ready for bed - but I don't know your LO.
Hope you get him to sleep though soon. Xx
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yeah crying at bedtime is OT for us, otherwise he goes to sleep fine. if hes not ready for bed he will cry as soon as i start wind down and get upset at me, thrashing the books out of my hands etc. the nap didnt go too bad, I did have to pat him to sleep but he slept 1 hour 15mins and woke up, i patted him again and he slept another 25/30mins so all up about 1 hour 40 nap, not too bad i think. i will see how the night goes and look at trying the 11.30am nap again, if he wakes up at say 7am tomorrow (oh please dear Lord!) do you think i should stick to the A time instead of the set time as 11.30am will be too early for a nap for him if he wakes up at that time.
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If he wakes at 7am I would do something in between the 2 - maybe don't push as much as today but obviously not the "set" time either. Glad the nap went ok in the end. Hope you have a good night.
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Hi hun, just wondered how things were going? Hope no news is good news?
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Yep so far so good we are back to where we were previously though, he fell asleep in the car yesterday at 4 hours 45min A time and so I transferred him to his bed and he slept 1.5 hours straight, so now I'm quite confused, 5 hours and upwards gives me a waking at either 50 mins or 1 hour 15 with a high chance of resettling and the possibility of a total of 2 hour nap, 4 hours 45mins gives me a full 1.5 hour nap with no wakings so it's very frustrating because I still don't think 1.5 hours in the day is enough however last night we finally got a 12 hour night, he's been giving us 10.5-11 hour nights lately.
So what do you think?
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looks like i spoke too soon, a 4 hour 45 min A time today gave us a ..... you guessed it, a 50 min wake up and this time he didnt go back to sleep *sigh* this has been going on for months, what works one day doesnt the next, we cant do 2 naps anymore, he just simply wont have any more than one nap, not even APOPd. ive tried less A time, more A time, nothing really consistantly works. hes been so grumpy lately that he wont last until 5 hours A time so i just dont know what to do anymore
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5 hours and upwards gives me a waking at either 50 mins or 1 hour 15 with a high chance of resettling and the possibility of a total of 2 hour nap
This does suggest that he needs that little bit extra and the fact you had that silly waking of 50mins with the 4.45 A time
I think if it were me (and obviously it isn't!) I would do the slightly longer A time and resettle him to get him a 2hr nap and once I'd done this a week and thought he was caught up I would see whether wiwo would be an option to get rid of the resettling - if that makes sense? I think you're right 1.5hrs is not long enough with a 12hr day.
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Sounds like a good plan. Do you think I should start with 5 hours A time?
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HI there agree with Laura, I would be aiming for 5 hrs at this point.
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ok... starting to get a little peeved off with this nonsense... he was asleep at 5 hours 5mins and woke up at 50mins, needed patting, ive patted him back to sleep but he could wake in 10mins or could sleep longer. he did cry out a bit when i put him to bed, he was pretty tired, as soon as i turned the lights off for us to have a cuddle before i pop him into his bed he was yawning, rubbing his eyes and swaying his head, he almost always does that once i turn off the light. so tomorrow aim for 5 hours 15???? i dont get it, he can sleep 11-12 hours with no need for me patting... oh hang on hes awake now, wow that was a whole 5 mins....
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I will tell you this whole 2-1 transition seems to be just HELL! Hugs!!!!!!!!!!!!! I sure hope your sanity lasts till you make it to a consistent schedule.
I know this is driving me bonkers too!!
Sometimes it makes me look forward to the days with no naps. ;) No more worries about when to put them down, why they won't stay down exc............
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so tomorrow aim for 5 hours 15?
Yes... In my experience with a crappy napper the 45/50min naps are UT - just not quite tired enough iyswim?
More hugs. Wish I could be more help.
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Agree here. But it depends on the LO. I mean at the moment Finn is having a ridiculous 7 hrs A time before his 2 hr nap...now I don't suggest you go there of course but I think you can afford to push a bit :-) Even what you are saying about the patting and he wakes again in minutes, it really seems UT and is probably because he's having long nights.
Hugs Jo, it's rough going.
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I tried to put him down at 5 hours 15 mins but he fought me so DH had to take him because as soon as I took him he tried to get out of my arms etc but was better for DH, he cried for a bit when he went to bed and we could hear him shuffling and struggling to sleep for 10mins so I think his A time total was 5.5 hours then he woke up at .... 50mins! I've patted him back to sleep but I did try W2S thinking the waking was habitual but doesn't seem to have made difference. And after all that he only slept a total of 1 hour 20mins....... For flips sake!!!
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Have you tried meds before nap? Long shot I know but worth a try at this stage? If you think the fighting is cos you've missed the window then drop the A time back. Fighting sleep for us is UT...
More hugs. Will he sleep longer in the pushchair?
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Tried meds, made sure the room is warm etc, I've done everything I can think of to be honest, I just don't know where to go from here, more A time than 5.5 hours??? Really? At this young? And this quickly? He was on 4.5 only just over a month ago, I just don't know anymore. I'm fine with only 1.5 hours in the day if he's sleeping 12 hours through at night but now it's seeming like even that's a struggle to acheive now
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Jo I wonder if you try the 6hr A time and just see - if it backfires then we know it's a no go. If it works then you have your answer. What do you think?
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Laura honey im willing to try just about anything now :) cant do it tomorrow though, he has swimming in the morning and that always tires him out really soon afterwards but will see how we go :) i will wait a couple of days i think and then take it from there, you ladies have been gold to go through this with me, i feel like such a nuisance, 6 pages just because Caleb wont transition most days! gah! feel like a bit of a whiner to be honest LOL
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Don't be silly! You've seen my whinging posts so I don't think you have anything to worry about!
These boys are just sent to try us - do you reckon girsl are generally better sleepers by now - there does seem to be fewer girl issues on the toddler board.
Keep me posted anyway. More hugs your way :-*
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just checking in to see how its going!
still tough huh?...just thought id chip in on the same lines of what others have said about a little more A time...
im finding that because I have set nap and bedtime that the nap length always varies and have kind of noticed a pattern...
when dd does an EW at 5.30 (very rare) she then has 6 1/2 hrs A until her nap at 12pm but will then usually sleep 2 hrs+ and I have to wake her to keep to my set bedtime of 7!!
when dd wakes earlier say 6am then she has 6 hrs A until her nap at 12pm she will usually take a decent nap of around 1 1/2 to 2 hrs
when she wakes at 6.30 (5 1/2 hr A) she always takes about 1 hr 30 mins and when she wakes nearer to 7 (5 hr A) she always naps about 1 hr 15 mins!...
its a nightmare cos it means on days that she shorter naps she is a bit more testing at bedtime unlike the days when she wakes up early where she takes a good nap and in turn is much easier at bedtime!
Ive learnt that whatever happens im either going to have a hard time in the morning with an EW so early start and long day or after a good morning I end up with a bad bedtime settling!!!
its sooooo hard isnt it! keep trying things and you'll soon get your magic formula (let me know what it is when you do!!)
Annette.xx
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well maybe theres a bit of SA going on as well or something, i dont know, he wouldnt go to DH for bedtime tonight, started to struggle, cry and fight DH so i took him and did bedtime routine and into bed, he was perfectly fine for me, but then that doesnt explain how he was for naptime today, the complete opposite (except the crying once he was in bed)
has anyone tested tired signs at this age? how reliable are they? maybe i should try looking for those instead?
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We have some luck with tired signs lately, he starts laying his head down on the floor lol. You could just follow Caleb for a bit. Just don't look at the clock and keep him up until he shows you he is really tired.
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Just don't look at the clock and keep him up until he shows you he is really tired.
And I would emphasise the "really" bit...
DS will often lay on the floor but isn't really *that* tired ::)
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Yeah I mean like falling over and the total zoned out look in his eyes...that little phase just before second wind.
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Ok well we had stirrings and a Nw and then an EW at 5.40am so I'm thinking he was OT, he had just over 10.5 hours sleep, i don't think I should push him further, but I just can't find that sweet spot of an A time for him, he got really hyper yesterday before naptime so I think I missed it, however 2 weeks ago when we were in NZ hewas doing great at 5 hours 20 min and doing decent naps too, now it's not happening.
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oh scrap that thought, DH told me that Caleb had done Poos this morning and thats probably what woke him, they were hard and dry (gosh where else can you comfortably talk about poos but at BW! lol) and then he had another BM at 8am which were alot softer, so maybe just that??? anyway we took him to swimming and afterwards he was literally falling asleep on us so he was in bed at 4 hours 50mins A time and he slept 1.5 hours! we heard him shuffling around at the 50min mark but it never eventuated into anything so that was great! however its a long time till bedtime, stupid EW's always mess us up! so, my conclusion is taht any A time around 4.45-4.50 hours is good at the moment (when that will change who knows!) especially after an activity, im looking at putting him into care soon as i really think he needs the interaction, i think he may be seriously bored at home with me, he is such a social kid he just loves other kids so Mamma is boring really lol
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my conclusion is taht any A time around 4.45-4.50 hours is good at the moment
Then stick with that... I guess the issue then is do you try for a catnap or just do early bed? What do you think?
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He won't do a second nap anymore but now he's been fightng bedtime which we've never ever had before, tonight I even tried patting him to sleep and he wouldn't do it, he stood up! So DH had to do it instead of me, I made his bedtime 6.30pm so iguess I shouldve made it earlier I just didn't want another Early start
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Oh dear. I guess you're stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea at the mo? Will you be able to APOP any sort of catnap? We don't have a lot of luck ourselves but just thought I'd ask?
Try an earlier bedtime and hopefully he'll pull a good night.
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Yep it sounds like you are a bit stuck until he has a catch up in A time. We managed 2 naps over the weekend, 1 in the car and 1 in crib because we had plans and needed to be out of the house during nap time. But normally we wouldn't get 2 crib naps.
I know earlier bedtime can mean earlier wake up at this age but really he will be better rested and that is probably better no?
And Finn has actually slept much better since starting daycare, both for naps and nighttime, so the activity level and keeping busy has a lot to do with it. These social kids just crave stimulation!
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so the activity level and keeping busy has a lot to do with it. These social kids just crave stimulation!
Until they start to re-live all this in the middle of the night ::)
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well he woke up at 5am and i managed to pat him back to sleep (hallelujah!) and he woke up at 6.40am so a 12 hour night, but i never have to pat him back to sleep so either OT or im becoming a prop with the patting!!!! which is something i feared....
i can try an APOPd catnap tonight in the car, its getting harder and harder to get him to take a second nap, even the old tricks are taking longer and longer to work and sometimes they dont at all.
DH is looking after Caleb today as i have to be out this morning and this afternoon so not sure how today is gonna go
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DH had Caleb asleep at 5 hours 15mins and he slept 1 hour 20mins so that wasnt too bad and in bed by 7pm with no fuss...... but then awake for the day at 5.40am
I just dont get it, i cant figure this out, every second day he does a 10.5 hour night and the other night he does 12 hours, so what am i missing?
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I have been following this nap situation and I'm at a total loss. Sorry to to be of any help. But wanted to offer ((((hugs)))))
When our LO's are crazy like this its so rough on the WHOLE family!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Jo I am trying to wrap my head around it, it sounds like some sort of weird self-regulating but I would bet if he's not teething or anything then this messy sleep is trying to tell us something.
Can you post the past 2 or 3 days like EAS - let's go over it with a fine-tooth comb.
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ok here we go
Mon:
awake at 6.20am (11 hours 50min sleep)
nap 11.25 - 12.15 (5.05 hours A time produced a 50min nap, he did not go back to sleep here, i tried wI/WO for 30mins)
bedtime 6.40pm
Tues:
awake at 6.40am (12 hour night)
nap 1 12.10 - 1.30pm (5.5 hours A time, he struggled to go to sleep here, DH had to take over and put him to bed for me as he fought me, had him in his bed at 5 hours 15mins)
bed 7pm
Wed
awake at 5.40am (10.5 hours night sleep)
nap 10.30 - 12 (4 hours 50mins A time, slept 1.5 hours)
asleep 6.45pm (he struggled to fall asleep, was in bed by 6.30 but had to be patted to sleep then woke at 5.05am and i patted back to sleep)
Thurs
awake at 6.40am (12 hours night sleep)
nap at 11.55 - 1.15 (DH was looking after him, said he cried a bit before finally going to sleep 5 hours 15mins A time produced a 1 hour 20 min nap)
bedtime 7pm, he went to bed really easily, woke at around 2am crying out but fell back asleep then woke at 5.30am today
so what do you think?
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Well basically it looks like after a 50min nap you get a 12hr night and a longer nap you get a 10.5hr night OR it's a 12hr night after an earlier bedtime...
I think I would trial the early bedtime and see what happens, rather than change bt for the length of the nap iyswim?
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yep, i put him to bed at 6.15 tonight. it was strange, i went to put him to bed at 5 hours A time and he refused his nap, so i got him up, figuring maybe his tired signs are bored signs and took him to the park for 20 mins, came home, read him a story and put him to bed, he cried for about a minute but fell asleep and slept for 1 hour 20mins, so his A time was 5 hours 40mins!!! thats huge! but of course because he was up so darn early this morning it was still only 12.30 that he was up and after we went out all afternoon to play at a friends house he was stuffed and needed to go to bed earlier.
so still a 1 hour 20 min nap, i remember when we first started this whole one nap business and i was complaining about 1.5 hour naps and then i started to settle for them, then i got 50 min wakeups and now im starting to settle for 1 hour 20 min naps, it seems what i will settle for is getting less and less, compared to the desired 2-3 hour naps we all want. and it makes me mad when i see friends on FB stating that their child is having 3 hour naps during the day and yet i remember when they were babies and my boy was the one sleeping so well, now theirs is, it almost doesnt seem fair at all!
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and it makes me mad when i see friends on FB stating that their child is having 3 hour naps during the day and yet i remember when they were babies and my boy was the one sleeping so well, now theirs is, it almost doesnt seem fair at all!
Yep... I know that feeling! DS STTN 12hrs staright at 10.5weeks and now look at our mess :-\ sometimes I don't know why I bother "tweaking" LOL!
Good luck for tonight, I'll def be interested to see what happens. :-*
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I'm a fan of the early bedtime too, but I know it doesn't help everybody. Will be interested to see how it goes. You might have to try it a few days in a row before seeing any improvement, though, unless of course you think it leads to even earlier wakes.
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Yeah I mean at least Finn has done me the courtesy of not being a great sleeper from the get go lol Never STTN until, gosh who even remembers, and always waking before 6 a.m.
With his reflux and my ineptitude, we didn't stand a chance.
But I am much wiser now - so if we do have another he/she better watch it.
Hugs Jo, you are doing everything you can!
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Ladies we had a 12.5 hour night!!!! He did wake at 2.15am but the strange thing was all I had to do was tuck him in and he went back to sleep! He did even see me do it, his face was in the opposite direction the whole time but all i did was tidy his blanket up and leave and that was it. He woke at 5.50am and I thought "well that's 11.5 hours sleep si that's not too bad" but then it went quiet and we didn't hear anything till 6.45am!!!!! So do you think I should do the 5 hours 40min A time again??
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right, i am FUMING! im so over this bullsh*t! did the same thing as yesterday, a 5.5 hour A time and what do we get? a 40 min wakeup, patting didnt help, im sick of this nonsense, i am sitting here trying to stop these stupid tears, im so mad at Caleb! A 40 min nap!!!! for crying out loud!!! this has been going on for far too long, it doesnt matter what A time i do i get inconsistant nap lenghts, i was so mad i picked him up out of his cot and literally threw him at his father and then i walked off and slammed some doors! theres a lump in my throat that hurts like mad because i am trying not to let this overtake me.
I dont get it, i have been doing sleep training with him since he was 3 weeks old, its supposed to get BETTER not WORSE! what the hell am i doing wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I feel like im ready to just explode!
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Hi Jo
I just want to say I have totally been there and can completely empathise with you. I know that's not much help but you are doing everything you can and for whatever reason he won't nap well. I suspect it's cos he did a long night and you could have done a longer A time - BUT that's hindsight for you. I think you need to really try and take a step back and decide what's best... When I got to this point I decided I had to do a fixed (ish) time and then I just accepted nap length and did bt usual time or 15mins early if nec. It isn't ideal and no it hasn't helped our crazy NWs etc BUT it did help me. I *wonder* if at this point you need to try and accept that actually Caleb isn't going to consistently give you a good nap length and decide how you want to approach it- i.e continue with A times or fix the time so you know where you stand. At some point Caleb will adpt to whatever you decide.
YOu have totally done everything you can and you are a very patient and caring mum. Unfortunately Caleb hasn't read the BW books!
I wish I could say yes it's going to get better but I'm no further down the line... however naps are NOT forever.
I wish I could be more help to you hun. :-*
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Thanks Laura, im feeling alot more calmer now, i decided to get over it and we went out for a bit, i took him to a playland and he had an absolute blast, had so much fun and he was in the best mood after that, DH said it was like after all that activity he was actually content, he wasnt even tired after 6.5 hours being awake after his 40 min nap, I mean he wasnt OT untired if you know what i mean, he wasnt hypo OT but rahter just content. I think to be honest we are back to the whole "boredom" thing. I think he needs alot more activity than what he gets at home and thats why hes not sleeping well. i seriously dont think he needs more A time than 5.5 hours for his age, in fact when he went to nap today he didnt cry, neither yesterday as well, whereas every other day hes been crying when we put him to bed and ive had to pat him to sleep, so i think the A time is close to correct but again i think the factor here is that hes just not getting enough actual activity. he craves other kids, socialisation, outdoors etc. im just not too sure how else to get it into him. we dont have a backyard as such, its a mudpit until we get it sorted (which ive been waiting 2 years for already grrrrr to DH) however i managed to inspire DH to make a sandpit and he started that today so that will help, but i think the poor kid is just miserable being with me all the time. Im looking at some type of daycare, just so that he has more interaction than anything, we wanted to hold off on daycare for a few years but i think he actually NEEDS it.
anyway, ive babbled on a bit, just processing my thoughts really. I have thought again today of doing set naps but i dont think thats going to help him if hes not getting the activity he needs. but then again i could be completely wrong, its just a theory and i dont know how to test it really.
after all that playing today and then playing with his Daddy in the garage this evening he went to bed at 7pm (6.5 hours A time) he was not showing any of the normal exhausted signs, like i said, just content, ready for bed. we were going to do an early night after his tiny little nap but he did so well we just let him hang out in the garage for a bit longer.
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but i think the poor kid is just miserable being with me all the time.
I am SURE this is NOT true. However, I know where you are coming from on the whole "boredom" thing.
I worry my DS doesn't get enough activity but unfortunately for us it's for his own good. He can't do a lot of things healthy children do cos the risk of him getting poorly isn't worth it. He doesn't do any form of toddler group (too many children carrying different bugs) he can't do swimming, soft play or anything with enclosed spaces and lots of people. It's hard and I'm sure sometimes he must get sick of me and my mum (who has him 4days a week) too. I think if you could put him in daycare for even just one morning a week that'd do him, and you, the world of good.
With regard to set nap time or A time, you know what works for Caleb (despite what you think ;) ) but I think you need to try and accept the crappy naps (I know - easier said than done!) When he wakes early from a nap will he stay in his bed for a bit? If so leave him for 30mins it doesn't matter and at least it's quiet time. Sometimes you have to do what you need too. :-*
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12 hour night!! It's another day so let's try this again :)
Laura, no once hes awake he cries, never plays happily, this has pretty much always been the case, it used to worryme that he never woke up happy but I guess that's just wh he is, once he's awake he wants out of his bed
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Well I'm completely out of ideas, he had an activity filled morning at church today, had 5.5 hours A time and conked out in the car, teransferred him to his bed and he slept a total of 45mins!
I feel so lost, my last thought of not enough activity has gone right out the window as well as my confidence with this thing, I now feel like a liar after promoting BW sleep methods, because I've clearly done it all and it's just not working for us anymore, how can I promote BW when someone else looks at my child and says "um well your childs not really sleeping so why should I beleive anything you have to say"
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"um well your childs not really sleeping so why should I beleive anything you have to say"
I feel like this sometimes too :(
I think it's the long nights throwing everything. It's logical he'll want less sleep with long nights but not sure what to suggest :-/
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Hugs, I know the feeling well. All those of my friends who did CIO their kids do actually sleep. It bugs me to no end! But I still feel I did the right thing, even when my kid is waking at 4:30 a.m. most days :-(
Agree with the long nights theory, I think I would be tempted to cut back to 11 hours and then you might get your decent nap. I remember Bethany posting something in my low sleep needs thread about this plan, because she had to ensure her LO had enough sleep drive to do a nap.
Just want to add also re: leaving him to self-entertain, remember when he's crying after waking he's not CIO he's just demanding your company so it's ok to let him cry a bit and just tell him 'it's rest time now'. We can't make them sleep but we can enforce some proper rest time during the day.
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oh i thought he needed more sleep in total, because i was figuring with the 12 hour nights and 40-50min naps hes getting just under 13 hours sleep and i thought he needed more than that?
how do i cut my nights back to 11 hours? i cant wake him any earlier or it will be too early and i dont want to push his bedtime further because hes already doing such a long day on such a short nap
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Hi Jo
I guess around 13hrs sleep is probably fine. I reckon that maybe with a long night you can push the nap back a bit and hopefully then bt. I wouldn't push the nap with a shorter night though given how sensitive Caleb is to A times, only with a 12hr night and see what happens. If you can get bt to a reasonable hour then you could wake him 30mins earlier ???
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well he ended up doing a 25min catnap in the car yesterday and what do you know? he woke up 30mins earlier this mornign! so it was a 6.15am start to the day, thewn we dwecided to watch for tired signs, got none! got to about 6 hours and we dewcided it was time for a nap, he dfid fight it still and it ended up as 6 hours 15mins A time, he crierd for about a minute anssd then fell asleep and only gave us a 55min nap! so even with pushing the A time we still got a short nap. so it makes it harder to push bedtime tongight really, sorry if this is all jubmbled i have Caleb sitting on my lap while i type this and hes playing with my eyes so there may be a few typos here and there lol
so we will go for a 7pm bedtime tonight and hope for at least a 7am wakeup and try and start moving bedtime back slowly. its just getting so bad that im wishing for the old 1.5 hour naps now! i just get NO time in the day for myself anymore so im seriously considering daycare cos this is getting ridiculous, i get nothing done! my house is a mess and I feel like im going mad with him
on the positive, DH made a sandpit in only two days! i had to share the pics just because its a miracle it got done! now we just need to fill the gaps, paint it and fill it with sand but until then, Caleb has SOMETHING he can play in outside for awhile :)
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Bless him - he looks like he is having so much fun.
It looks like 12.5 (max 13) hrs is what he needs now. Maybe you'll only be able to push that nap with a 12hr night??
I think - if you can - then do the daycare thing. I wish I could send DS to daycare and not work to be able to clean our house too, boy does it get to me. I don't feel I should be doing it when DS is around as I feel guilty but equally it's a mess!!
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oh its so depressing looking at all the sample routines for the 13+months, they all do 2 hour naps and have 12 hour nights waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh, its so not fair!
when we were out in the car today he yawned twice at 4 hours 15mins A time but i thought it was just cos we were in the car and its so relaxing and thats why he yawned, what do you think? ugh, never mind me, im just grasping at straws again! at least we know he doesnt need more A time after todays little fiasco :( why do have to have this all figured out? why does it bother me so much>?
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oh its so depressing looking at all the sample routines for the 13+months, they all do 2 hour naps and have 12 hour nights waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh, its so not fair!
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh from me too!!! I know DS is older but I feel depressed hearning about toddlers who do 11.5hr nights and 1.5hr naps...sigh...
I don't know why we need to figure it out, I guess because we want our child to sleep to be rested and develop well. Do you think Caleb would manage on a morning nap and a longer A till bed? How has he typically been - more of a morning or afternoon boy? I know DS always won't settle to bed without a certain amount of time and would never do a long morning and a 4hr A till bed - not that anything works with my boy! - but just wondered naturally which category Caleb fell into? if that actually makes any sense to you!!
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Yes that makes sense, he used to have the first A time being critical and exact but then after his nap he could do up to 7 hours before bedtime and that worked well, however once we went to NZ it all went crazy and I haven't found an A time that works for him yet, so when I say I'm looking for an A time I only need it for the morning one because after his nap (as long as it's a decent one) hecan pretty much handle anything. So my original concerns in all these posts were about having only a 1.5 hour nap, however since the NZ trip we just haven't been able to get back on track and it's been three weeks since we went away. It was only a two hour time difference so I can't figure out why it's affected him this way if it is indeed the real issue here. He was fine in NZ and napped fantastically with a 5 hour 20min A time doing up to 1 hour 50min naps some days but from the day we arrived home it's been all over the place
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napped fantastically with a 5 hour 20min A time
Then go back to this maybe?? So even if you get an EW do nap after this time and then whatever bt you think...
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Ive already tried that, he cried the house down and refused to go to sleep, but im gonna give it another try... right about now i will dance naked in the front yard if it means he will go back to great sleeping lol
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right about now i will dance naked in the front yard if it means he will go back to great sleeping lol
Bet your neighbours would like that!! I expect that'd at least make Caleb chuckle too failing all else!!
I reckon stick with it for a few days - if you can bear it and see what happens?
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hahaha, yes Caleb would crack up laughing seeing that, he thinks his mum is a funny dancer hehehe
Ok, so i will try that once again and see what happens, im hoping you will be rid of my moaning soon enough! lol
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im hoping you will be rid of my moaning soon enough!
It's a nice change from my moaning!!
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He was fine in NZ and napped fantastically with a 5 hour 20min A time doing up to 1 hour 50min naps some days but from the day we arrived home it's been all over the place
This is my plug for the whole stimulation factor. I've seen some of the vids, highly stimulating and peer stimulation for Caleb. It may have actually helped him sleep better.
At this point, I would aim for 1 nap and at a set time and see if you can even him out a bit. Choose your last known decent A time, and like Laura said before, accept the nap, whatever nap he gives and just keep offering it at the same time. Then as you said, slowly push bedtime back so that you can get to a decent wake time. Then you may have to wake him 30 mins earlier than he would normally wake and you may get that longer nap back. I think he's definitely telling you something with his attempt at self-regulating and the amount of sleep he is actually pulling in a 24 hr period.
Great sandbox!
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Completely agree with Wendy.
I know you don't think much of set nap times for Caleb, so if you don't want to go there, that's ok. But you've tried so many different A times and are getting so frustrated. It's not worth it, in my book. I think if he's not teething or ill, set that nap time and maybe bedtime too and see how he regulates. At 17.5 mo, this is what I did with my LO, and it was pretty easy to see what times were going to work best for her after a couple weeks. I think this is the only way you'll get to push bedtime back eventually.
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If you have them opportunity to send your lo to daycare a couple days a week or mornings he might love it! When I had lo#2 I sent our (then 18 months) lo#1 to nursery 2 days a week. she LOVED it and begs every day to go. She also sleeps better on those days. (naps there and nights at home with no nw's or ew's) It used to make me SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO mad to no end when they would tell me she had a 2hr nap at nursery. B/c I could NOT get her to sleep past 50 min. I asked them how they did it and even came in and looked at where they nap and they told me how they put them all down exc... Anyway, after many frustrating days of not getting much nap out of her here (and tears during nap time... by me LOL) I just figured out she needs that social interaction and has lots of energy she needs to burn off. And I guess they do it. She also sleeps great after church (playing with the kids in nursery).
Every LO has a different personality. And if you have the ability to you might just give it a go to see how he does. My lo cried the first couple times but then loved it. It just took a week or two for her to adjust.
My second lo is very different and will not need daycare/nursery until quite older. He's much more laid back than #1.
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If it helps Finn was a nightmare for naps on the weekend, didn't want to, even though he was ill, DH even had to drive him around. Today back at daycare, he napped without issue for 2 hrs. I don't know how they do it, they must have magic napping fairy dust they sprinkle in the milk lol.
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Ok had a 12 hour nght which brings wakeup to 7am (yay!!) I will do the last known best A time at 5 hours 20mins so the time will be 12.20 for a nap (strangely enough this is what time I've been putting him to bed for the past three days anyway) and I will make that my set time and I will try and stick with it. I know you ladies have encouraged me many many times to do set naps and it may seem as though I've been ignoring it but I haven't, I have tried them a couple of times and it has scared me to see some of the results, however I've never really been consistant long enough with them so yes I am going to try and do that now :)
I'm going to take Caleb to a tiny tots playgroup this morning to help stimulate him as well. I really do appreciate you all hanging in there with me for this.
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We know you haven't been ignoring us ;) we also know that Caleb *appears* to do better with A times. Glad you had another good night though - that is at least something to hold onto. Hope you get a good nap today.
I don't know how they do it, they must have magic napping fairy dust they sprinkle in the milk lol.
I wonder if it's because ALL of the children are sleeping together - they all know they have to go to sleep, also probably cos there are no mummies around to "play" !! It makes you wonder though how much crying went on at the beginning - do you think?
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ok, just wanted to "report" how today went, he actually has a bit of a cold now, he has dark green snot and its a blocked up nose so that of course will affect everything! but have the vaporiser on in his room to help him breathe
so we went to playgroup this morning (not sure if this was a good idea wiht his cold) he fell asleep at 12.20 in teh car, i transferred him to his bed and he woke up at 50mins, i went in and patted for ages till he fell back asleep again, his nose was really blocked and i think this kept waking him up. he finally woke up at 1.55pm so about an hour and a half all up with the wakeup included, so not bad at all really! then i thought, this will be the perfect time to make bedtime a bit later and start our shorter nights, but he was a bit miserable this evening so ive put him to bed now at 7pm and hes gone straight to sleep, man i hope i havent gone backwards now and ended up with a 10.5 hour night like the other days when he had a 1.5 hour nap! i just figured if hes not well then he will need the sleep...
so my question is now, should i push with set naps now that he has a cold? now that ive actually decided to do it hes sick and i dont want to make him stay awake if he needs the rest. what do you think? not to mention i think im coming down with something too, massive headache and stinking sore throat :(
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I guess it's up to you - with DS regardless of him being ill I still keep him on a fairly regular routine cos he doesn't tend to sleep more when ill and likes to have the same amount of A time. But if you think Caleb needs to sleep then you are probably right to let him.
It's always when you have "a plan" that they become ill!!
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Finn is ill now and routine has gone out the window. He was up for 1.5 hrs in the night and then again at 4:45 - arrrgh. So really I would just try to keep on routine Jo but accept that it's not likely to run smoothly. I would still aim for that set nap though, if it's a good restorative nap then it will help him more than hurt IYSWIM.
I am glad Caleb had fun at his playgroup, it's so fun to watch these kids interact...they are so cute.
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Agree here too. I'd try to stay close to the routine, but obviously it doesn't always go as planned.
I know you don't think much of set nap times for Caleb, so if you don't want to go there, that's ok.
As for this, I hope you didn't think I meant you were ignoring any advice. It was more along the lines of, ultimately you know him the best, so really you're going to do what you think is best!
I have tried them a couple of times and it has scared me to see some of the results, however I've never really been consistant long enough with them so yes I am going to try and do that now :)
Also wanted to let you know, I was in that very same frame of mind. But, really what you're describing is what my LO was doing, no A time consistently gave a good nap. I finally decided it couldn't get much worse than a 40-50 min nap per day, so I did the set time. I did still get many shorter naps, but after a couple weeks, my LO finally started lengthening out and the naps got more consistent to about 1.5 - 2.5 hrs. Not sure that helps right now, but keep it in mind.
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Katie - I know you didn't mean that, it's just these lovely ladies have suggested it more than once or twice to me and I've never really tried to do it consistantly so I didn't want you all to think that I wasn't taking your good advice :)
Well we had an 11 hour night so not too bad at all considering I thought we were going to have a shorter night than that, he did wake up at 3.30am crying bit fell back to sleep. Now I'm not sure which is illness relates or routine related anymore. And seeing as he was up at 6am I'm not confident about having him fall asleep at the set time today especially as he's I'll and he has swimming this morning which always makes him exhausted and he usually falls asleep in the car on the way home but that will be 2 hours before the set nap time
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eeeee, im so excited! this is the first time in ages ive had good news to report, today we did the set nap time still and he slept... wait for it..... 1 hour 35mins! and no waking in the middle of it at all! yahoo! i did give him paracetamol, but that wouldnt have made much difference really because Ive done that previously and its never made much of a difference. so i pushed bedtime 10mins, didnt want to do too much because i do have to consider he is not feeling well and i think this 7pm bedtime has become a set time too by mistake! so he was in bed at 7.10pm tonight, i will gradually move it forwards so that we end up with a 7am wakeup and a 8pm bedtime :)
thank you ladies sooo much, heres hoping this continues!!
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Great news!! I always like to hear good news. Keep me posted and fingers crossed for a good night. :-*
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Yay Jo!
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Yep, so glad to hear this! ;D
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wow... how nice!!
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and a 12 hour night!!!!! yippeeeeee!! im so worried this is just a phase and he will go back to doing what he was doing before!
now my next question is, now that ive set a time, with him getting up at a reasonable hour now, the set time is a bit short of an A time for him, should i move it to say 1pm? so that the day evens out a bit, but doing gradually? so for instance, before, he was waking at 6/6.30am and sleeping around 12 (with the set time) now that hes waking up at 7/7.30, having his nap at 12 ish is too soon
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If you feel it's stable you should be able to move it out quite easily. But I would be tempted to stick with the set time a big longer to make sure the clock is really set IYSWIM. Sometimes there is a regression period.
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ok, will leave it for a bit, at least till hes over his cold (which is another reason i thnk he may be napping so well cos hes sick waaah) see how he goes after that.
ladies you have been fabulous, i <3 you! I have even been SO less stressed about it with these naps, i really listened to what you said when you said "do a set nap time and just accept whatever nap you get" and for some reason that struck me just right and ive just accepted whatever nap i get and i dont dread it anymore!!
this is why all through Calebs short life I have come here and found the best people that I could turn to :) you ladies have stuck with me for 10 pages!!!! not many people would do that LOL
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So glad you've had success!!!
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Well it's not like we have better things to do, we can't get our own kids to sleep so we might as well help others lol
Just kidding! We're all here for each other, that's what it's all about.
I hope it sticks Jo and really when you do just relax about it and take a bit of control of the when, it really does seem to get better. It's not to say it never derails, but you remember your 'happy place' when napping was going well and you felt good about it and it carries you through :-)
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Well it's not like we have better things to do, we can't get our own kids to sleep so we might as well help others lol
That was my thought! LOL
I agree with Wendy - I think while Caleb is still under the weather I wouldn't push too much but as soon as he's better I would move quite quickly. We would do 30mins jump over night to get a longer nap.
I'm so glad you are feeling happier though. When I learnt to just accept naps long and short it did help, I just wish could accept crappy nights...
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I hope it sticks Jo and really when you do just relax about it and take a bit of control of the when, it really does seem to get better. It's not to say it never derails, but you remember your 'happy place' when napping was going well and you felt good about it and it carries you through :-)
Ditto!
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hi ladies, just wanted to update you all, so far we have been having consistant 1 hour 20min naps, i know it sounds short but im happy to settle for that rather than the old 50min naps eek! he doesnt wake at the 50min mark anymore and i keep the nap at the same time everyday at 12.30pm regardless of wakeup time, whether it be 6.30 or 7.30am and today we got our first 7.30am, wakeup in months!! very exciting, weve been having 12-12.5 hour nights most nights. hes still sick so im not sure if this is contributing to the good sleeping but im not complaining! lol
thanks again!!!
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that is SUPER news :)) hopefully you get some good rests yourself soon :)
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Jo it sounds good. I would keep it up until there is a change i.e. a sign from him i.e. shortening nights, fighting nap, shortening nap drastically.
Way to go Caleb!
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Great news!! Well done you and Caleb of course ;)
I would just watch if he consistently starts waking at 7.30pm you may have to push the nap back a bit, but lets' see how he goes. :-*