Support Thread for Understanding Shh Pat

[admitchell]

Tired, tired, tired...
I'm going nowhere with shh/pat. My ds (3 months now) loves it on my shoulder (even better his dad:-) but when I see first signs of readiness I put him down shhing and patting (whatever I can at this point) but he always starts fussing really bad. I cannot control his arms. At times I'm concerned such tight swaddling can do some damage. But even if I manage to swaddle him tight he manages to get one arm out and starts fighting. His reflux medicine ran out several days ago and the doctor recommended to observe him before we get more but I'm sure he needs more, now! He sleeps much worse with many NWs. We start to take the med tomorrow so hopefully I'll get a little rest.
Alexa, thanks for spotting A times issue. Indeed I have to watch it more as he gets OT and then it is more difficult to get him to sleep. But still going through the cycle and between cycles is an issue. Many, many, many jolts. I wait 20 min to get him to the next phase of one cycle, then another 20 min to get him to another cycle and once I leave the room after 50 min we wakes up!
When can we start pu/pd? Is it 3 months of 4 months?
Agata

[A pair of Charlies]

Hi Agata

Wondering if he's really really OT and whether to drop those A times down a little more....? Not sure though.

What's happening before winddown? Have you tried a cooldown period just before you start WD (keeping him from noisy flashing overstimulating toys)? What's your WD like and how long does it last? Then what happens with the shh patt shoulder to crib... I'd like to try and help if I can. But no guarantees that I can. 

Hugs for your stresses 

Charlotte

[admitchell]

Many thanks. I moved to pu/pd with better results. Still some questions though

[Catzsz]

What I know now that I wish I knew then:

1)Do pat/shh in a moses basket on your lap, saves your back and way more comfortable. Plus by the time theyve out grown it their hopefully easier to settle in their cot.
2)If your struggling to get them to focus on your pat/shh through their cries and your throat feels like its going to cave in... for some reason a lot of the babies I've helped with inc 2 of my own like a good beating! As in a very firm pat. Once they've stopped crying and started to focus on the pat you can ease it back off gentle.
3)If they wont shut their eyes, their focusing on some pin prick of light in the room somewhere.
4)If they got OT you gotta get them past just the one jolt.
5) And the most important one=If they previously slept well and then you get  to a point where you cant see the woods for the tree's, nowt makes sense as to why you cant get them to sleep or for long and want to scratch your own eyeballs out...take a day or two off.
 Shh pat works, its somthing else that isnt ie A times, longer/shorter wind down, Ot/OS and in those days off of just accepting that your only going to get 45 mins kip, not looking at the clock and just enjoying your baby somthing usaully comes forward that makes sense. At the very least your able to gather some patience to re tackle and somtimes somthing just clicks for the baby. You might find a tree.
6)Any change you make, can take up to a week or two to change the problem.
7) If you dont see any slight improvement with pat/shh within 3-5 days, somthing else is going on.
dont obsess...you might lose sight of your baby.
9)IT DOES GET BETTER. At least your incontinece does anyway

[Padicindy]

Hi I have a question. I read that we swaddle the baby snugly and lay the baby on his side so we have access to the back. After the baby falls asleep do we flip him back to his back or let him sleep on the side swaddled?

[A pair of Charlies]

Hi there

I don't think there are any hard and fast rules on this - usually Mamas do what they find works best for them. I tried to keep DS on his side swaddled, but struggled to keep him from rolling either forwards or backwards, so I gently lay him back on his back.

Then I got into the habit of shh patting him in my arms, patting his back and once he was in his crib and asleep on his back, I would either try and roll him onto his side to patt (was a 50% 50% success for me) or patt his shoulder. Eventually, the crib patting died down to just patting the shoulder and then his chest really really gently, then resting my hand on his chest.

Does that make sense? Really, it's down to what works for you. Some Mamas find they have better results patting bottoms than backs.

[Padicindy]

Hi thanks you do make sense. I think my LO likes to be pat on her bum but once she lies down I have no access to her bum!  Am trying to keep her on her side swaddled but I noticed that because she is now more mobile, she wants to be able to turn her face but is unable to do so, and thus get frustrated.

I'll try to lie her on her back for her 2nd nap later and see if she'll be happy with me just patting on her chest or her shoulders. shh pat works for my baby but she tends to get distracted when on her back as her room is not pitch dark in the day.

[Sydney]

Oh, I am trying to dig really deep within me and find some optimism with regards to shh/pat.  I am having such a hard time implementing this with dd who is 2 1/2 weeks.  Been trying for close to 3-4 days now and no success - AT ALL - with any nap.  I am in there anywhere between 20 and 45 minutes for each nap and I am so sick of shushing and patting. Her A times are only 30 minutes (having a hard time reading OT signs as she always seems tired) and she eats every 2 1/2 to 3 hours.  I have her swaddled on her side so I can access her back, but seems to fight the both the swaddle/side lying once I put her in her crib.  Seems settled after windown when put in crib and then I do shh/pat and she seems asleep but within 10-20 minutes she is crying in her bed, restless and I am once again defeated:( 

What could I possibly be doing wrong?  Is there something else I should try? I hate my negative attitude right now but just don't see a light at the end of the tunnel with her sleep issues.  She used to go down fairly decent at night (7 pm bedtime with DF at 10:00 and another feed at around 2:00), but even that went to the birds last night and she was up from around 3:30 - 5:30 fussing.  I fed her but she only at an ounce or so so don't feel she was hungry.

Just a vicious circle and looking for some support.  THanks.

[~Alexa~]

((((HUGS)))) Shpat can be soo hard at the beginning!
Does your lo have reflux?

Once your lo closes her eyes, keep applying pressure on her arms and legs so when she jolts (10-20 min), she doesn't wake up.  If she opens her eyes, ignore that and keep applying pressure.  She may fall back asleep by herself with the pressure. 

Your lo is very very young, so if shpat is not working right now, I wouldn't worry too much.  You will have lots of time for sleep training, believe me! Enjoy your DD and don't worry about shpat so much! Try shpat for 20-30 min, but if it doesn't work, then do whatever you can to put your lo to sleep, and try for the next nap. 

Hang in there hun! Things will get better! I promise!

[A pair of Charlies]

Congratulations on your new arrival!!! 

I think as she's so young, may-be hold her close so that all the shh patt is done calmly in your arms and she is falling asleep when you lay her down...keep up the patting OR the pressure and try to gently ease off once you feel those jolts passing. I think Alexa's bang on with seeing her through the jolts (I think that's why the 10 min waking thing) into deep sleep. TBH, if you can, perhaps stay close by (have a snooze too) so if she stirs again, reapply the pressure gently to see if it gets her to sleep through.

And if it's not happening, then try whatever works to get you and your LO some sleep. I found that shh patt got easier and easier once we got some good naps in. If they keep getting jolted, jilted interrupted sleep it makes them so so tired and so much harder for them to really get a good long deep sleep. So if you have to AP to get to a good starting point, then go for it.

At such a young age, AP is easier to undo on both of you. And things should be pretty lose (IMO) in those early days...you both need so much rest and it is so hard to come by. 

[Sydney]

Thanks, Alexa.  I don't thinks he has reflux - what are the signs, do you know?  So, when she closes her eyes I should stop the shh/pat and start applying pressure on arms/legs to make it through the jolts?  TIA!

[~Alexa~]

Hi hun!! I totally agree with Charlotte! It is easier to undo some AP!!

Here is some info about reflux. http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=654.0

When I used shpat, I kept shpatting until my lo fell into deep sleep.  As he got better at it, I kept patting, but stopped shushing.  Then, I stopped both and only applied pressure.  So, you can stop shushing and keep patting (may be a more gentle pat), and then if he doesn't wake up, then stop patting, but keep applying pressure. Does this help?

[Sydney]

This does help - thanks to all.  I will try and take a step back an reevaluate and try and enjoy my baby instead of getting caught up in all this sleep training for a while:)  Wish me luck.

[Sydney]

Me again with an update and a couple of more questions - thanks for bearing with me   I put her down for her 2nd nap, did shh/pat for 12 minutes and then noticed her start to get restless in her swaddle at the 12 minute point so stopped patting but kept shushing and applied pressure to legs and arms.  I did this for the next 10 minutes (22 minutes total) and she seemed to be in a deep sleep by then so I left.  What I noticed is that she doesn't really "jolt" like I would think of a jolt but it is much more like she is trying to get comfy in her swaddle/bed.  Should I consider these movements jolts because this is what I was controlling with my hands.  She then slept from 10:15 until 11:10 and I went to check and her and she was restless again like she was coming out of sleep.  I then applied more pressure to her movements and she seemed to calm down a bit but haven't checked to see if she is still sleeping. 

Is this progress?  Maybe I should wait for 30 minutes next time?

[~Alexa~]

Yay!!  That is progress!!

If she is in deep sleep after 20 min, then there is no point in waiting 30 min, iykwim?

And yes, I would consider her movements as jolts.  That's what my lo does sometimes.  When he is not OT, he doesn't 'jolt', but he moves a bit and gets comfy.  So, yeah, pretty much a light jolt!

You are doing a great job, hun! Give yourself a pat on the back!