Support Thread for 2-1 Nap Transition cont'd pt 4

[Khalam's Mama]

K would only sleep less at mums and more at home. It did lengthen out a bit. Wonder if the light sleep phase let's them rouse to see they are somewhere exciting.
Do you put him down that time too?

[amayzie]

At home if we don't do the morning nap we put him down at 11.30 o so.. but we usually do do a morning nap.. Do i need to just really focus on ditching the morning nap?

[*Becky*]

Katy - when they go to one nap anything under 2 hours is considered OT.

How long is the am nap atm?

[*Becky*]

can anyone offer us some wisdom?? We are on a 45/50 min am nap and longer pm...
she never does more than 2-2.15 hours so the pm is usually only about 1.05-1.15...

Keeping her up for 4.5 hours and letting her sleep does not get us a good nap either.
So...do I cap the am more or keep her up for 5 hours and then let her sleep.

I should add she wakes between 5.30-6am so not great for getting to one nap

What to do???

[amayzie]

Well- i'm not one to add wisdom.. BUT if i were you i'd try capping that first nap to a mini nap- 20-30 mins say.. then you might get a better PM nap... perhaps... that before the jump to one nap. I would wonder too perhaps if the EW isn't being caused in part/helped by the 2 naps.. you might see some improvement if you get ruthless?

Our morning nap is something like 15/20 mins- and at home he will then have a MASSIVE nap from 1 or 1.30 or so for a couple of hours. At mums though he only does the short nap and she often doesn't do the morning nap- so a nap at 11.30 or so...

Today though we had a series of miracles (i don't ask for much..) First miracle- he stayed AWAKE in the car all morning- as in on a number of car trips- then had a nap from 12.30-2.36- so i thought this was pretty good. THen we went out in the evening and mum looked after him. He went to sleep like a dream- BUT woke at 10.30/11 or so and wouldn't go to sleep without me home.. and is now having a bit of a cot party at midnight after a feed!! (usually the feed is like a magic wand...) Does that sound like something to do with 2-1? Or possibly just him being all out of whack because mum was here instead of us?

[trimbler]

Hi Becky - just to say I'd agree with Katy, try capping that first nap further. Our DS could only ever take gradual changes, so we would literally shave 5mins off at a time, let him adjust and then see if we needed to do more. Partly due to childcare arrangements, and partly as it seemed to work for a while, we'd always start the am nap at a consistent time, so if he woke early, he wouldn't end up well rested after a capped am nap, but was a bit more refreshed after a longer pm nap, and would eventually tag the missed night-time sleep onto the next morning, getting later WU times. But, having said that, early WUs were a common occurrence until we went to one nap. On the other hand the two naps can still enable them to be relatively well rested - I guess if you're getting to the point where the nights are just too short to be restorative, even with say, a 10-20mins morning nap, then you may need to take the plunge...

Katy - does sound to me like the 1 nap is coming soon! We had a period where we'd experiment with the 'optimum' time for the nap, whilst DS was at home over the weekend (at childminder's Mon, Wed, Thu) - so when we had a decent WU on a Fri/Sat, we'd play around a bit with timings. He'd always have the 2 naps on childminder days, which meant it didn't matter too much whether he had a bad night/EW, as he could catch up with her. I agree that 1.5h is most probably OT at this age/stage, so maybe try a little earlier than 11:30, if that's ok with your mum? If that doesn't work and if he's definitely showing signs of an UT nap then you may be able to try going the other way, but proceed with caution How long are his A times after a long nap at home, generally? You may be able to use that as a guide to how long you can safely stretch his morning A?

[*Becky*]

thanks girls. She was OT at bedtime last night so not the best night. Going to let her have 45 mins today but will start to shave it back by 5 mins every few days - thanks for the suggestion trimbler. I like to do things gradually with her when it comes to sleep.

[*Becky*]

so after that she did 45 mins in the am yesterday and a 1.5 nap....

still a 5.30am wake up though.

[roimata9]

Help! I posted before when my LO was doing only one nap, but sleeping from 6pm til 8am. Well, that has all gone out the window now, so I'd love some advice!
We've had some problems recently that I think may have contributed to the bad sleeping: molars coming down, tummy bug, trip away where he slept in a tiny cot and kept banging his head on the bars, DH away for a week.
He has reflux, and I'd been weaning him off his meds (omeprazole) but started him up again last friday as he's still spilling a lot and broken sleep was one of our key problems with uncontrolled reflux.
He has starting waking earlier, so 1 nap doesn't work, but he's also been sleeping really badly during the night. Saturday for example he woke up every 1:10 (he has a 35 min sleep cycle) crying unconsolably.
He's also started refusing to go down at bt. He had been refusing his pm nap, so I've started capping his am nap to an hour. He now goes down fine for naps, but won't sleep at night unless he is rocked, he then wakes quite often once he's down. Last night was his best night in a while and he went to bed at 7:30 (had to be rocked) then woke at 8:05 and took till 8:30 to go back to sleep. He then woke at 12 because he'd jammed himself into a corner of his cot. The night before however he went to bed at 7:00 (rocked) then woke at 7:35, 8:10, 8:20, 9pm, 10:10, 11:20, 2:40, 4am, 6:30 up for the day.

Is the BT refusal and NW early in the night OT? It's so frustrating that he goes to sleep happily and independently for naps but no longer for BT.
This is the EASY I did yesterday, and what I've been trying to do, adjusting to the time he wakes up.

WU: 6:30
A 2.5hrs
S: 9-10 (cap at 1 hour)
A 3 hours
S 1-3 (let sleep for as long as he needs)
A 4.5 hours
BT 7:30 (13 hour day)

Today he woke at 6am, so everything has shifted 1/2 hour earlier.

If he's OT should I continue this routine or let him sleep as long as he needs to in the AM? He definitely would have slept longer this morning if I'd left him. Or if he's OT at BT should I give him a 4 hour A time before bed? He's gone from sleeping 16 hours a day to 13-14 hours but with fitful nights. I think the long night sleeps he was doing were catching up on sleep after his first lot of molars came down, so I didn't expect that to last, but it seems like he needs more sleep than he is getting.

Thanks in advance!

[*Kara*]

It really looks like discomfort to me - I would give the meds a couple weeks to work fully and reassess.

[roimata9]

Thanks Kara, any tips for how to deal with the screaming in the meantime?
He doesn't respond to PU/PD and at the moment is just getting really agitated, even when I cuddle him. He is sick again with an infection of the intestines, so is in pain - and just will not sleep!
He's a spirited baby if that helps.

[Papaya]

Oh poor him and poor you I really wouldn't do PU/PD while there's any hint of reflux or other health problem hun. If he's in pain, the best thing you can do is give him those mummy cuddles - they will be comforting him, even if he's still not sleeping well. Is he on medication for the infection? Really hope he's feeling better soon

[*Becky*]

ok well the last 2 days we have been waking after 45 mins in the am and then she has been fighting the pm after 3.5 A.....this was what was working so I guess I need to cut back to 30 mins. I am so scared because last time I did this she never napped well in the pm and just got OT but i hate the nap fighting and it seems that if she fights it she only ends up doing 30 mins anyway which is a nightmare.

Do you think 3 hours after 30 mins is about right?

I guess i need to give it a go.....I can try one nap in about 2-3 weeks once dH is around a bit.

[Papaya]

I remember finding there was a big difference between 30 and 45 mins Becky, in terms of what A my LO could handle after it. I think because now you really are waking in the middle of the sleep cycle. So I think I'd be inclined to say 2hrs45... Good luck!

[*Becky*]

uggh, i just don't get her. For the second day she has fought it and then woken after 30-40 mins so her total day sleep will be 1.15 for the second day. If I do WIWO she goes nuts but staying in the room and she just messes about. I hope it is not OT..but she has been handling that fine so I guess it is UT??? Nightmare.