7 month old waking 30-45 minutes after being put down for night- ut or ot?

[Sjbc1019]

I agree that she seems ut for her 1st nap and yesterday seemed ut for 2nd nap as well.  Todayi pd at 3hrs32 and she chilled and played quietly for 13 mins then fell asleep.  She slept for 56 mins- she had a huge poop and also there were a couple of doors slamming so not sure if one of those woke her but she was happy when she woke. Since she slept almost an hour should I do the same or a bit longer awake for pm nap?  Yesterday Idid 3hrs30 and she took 13 mins to fall asleep then woke after30 mins.

Now, if she is able to stay awake longer in am, if she does a short pm nap(30-45 mins) do you think putting her down at 2hrs30 is still good or can she stay awake a bit longer?  The last 2 nights she has been out down at 2hrs30 but it has taken about 30 mins for her to fall asleep at around 3 hrs.  Not sure it is taking long to get down because she is ut or ot going down or SA.

Thanks so much for your help.  Feel like we are getting there....slowly.....

[Ima shel Alon]

I would increase the 1st A time by 10-15min and see if it makes a difference with the length of the first nap.
WRT A time before BT and the second nap it's something that you'd need to try out a bit. Some babies are doing great with a full A time before the second nap and then a short A time before BT (DS was like that) but some would need to have the second nap set at a certain time (and probably capped) to keep the last A as a full A that baby goes down ok for the night.

[Sjbc1019]

Hi

I increased awake for am nap to 3hrs40-45 and so far it is definitely working.  She is happy going down and plays in the crib for about 8-10 mins then falls asleep.  The naps since increasing awake have been 1hr8 and xxxxxx.  She is waking happy. 

The pm naps have been terrible as I just can't figure it out!  We'd she napped 56 mins and I put her down at 3 hrs32 mins and it took her 10 mins to fall asleep (last 5 fussing and little crying) and woke after 26 mins.  Went in and nursed and she fell back asleep for 50 mins!  Yesterday she seemed tired and I thought she must have been overtired the day before at pd at 3hrs30 so I put her down at 3hrs10 and it took 20 mins for her to fall asleep.  Played for 10 mins then fussed for another 10 before sleeping then woke after 25 mins.  Tried nursing but she was awake.  I am thinking she may be ut for the pm naps as she plays quite a bit then fusses/cries.  But she did fall back asleep after nursing and yesterday seemed really tired for about 45 mins after waking before she seemed to wake up so makes me think ot.  Confused though because I put her down 20 mins earlier yesterday but she ended up falling asleep at the same time as when I kept her up 20 mins later(3hrs30).

Bedtime- we'd when she did the 25 min nap followed by nursing then sleep for another 50 we put her down at 2hrs50.  She fussed but put herself to sleep in 10 mins and slept 11.5 hours and woke at 6:40Yesterday after a 25 min nap we planned to put her down earlier but she was just so playful during nursing that I didn't put her down until 2hrs45.  She seemed ut or she had to be ot after a 25 min nap.  She woke after 30 mins, fussed for less than 10 mins and put herself back to sleep but woke after6 hours fussing for a couple of minutes then playing and chilling in crib for about 40 mins before putting herself to sleep.  Then she woke at 5:45 and I nursed her back to sleep for another hour.  chilling in crib during night- ut or ot?  Waking early- earlier we said this was ut and increasing awake in am should help.  Maybe last night was a fluke?  It has been weeks since she woke after 30 mins of sleep at night.

We head for vacay on Sunday for 10 days- sooo nervous because for the most part she is sleeping through the night but vacay always does a number on us!

Thanks again for your insight- it has been really helpful.

[Sjbc1019]

Sent the email too so - she woke from the am nap after55 mins happy and playing immediately.

[Ima shel Alon]

Your AM nap is still UT... I would increase this A time again by 10min.
If she woke up 30min after BT that would usually indicate OT, so she went down UT for both her naps but because she didn't have restorative sleep during the day by the end of it she was OT + a long A before BT.
EW are not necessary UT, they can be OT as well (and can be caused by other things as well: Early Waking)
I believe that once her routine is better and she has more A time, naps better, then the EW will hopefully be gone as well.

[Sjbc1019]

Hi

I wanted to give an update and ask a few questions.  We have been on vacation then recovering from a cold so it's been awhile since I posted.

So, I think we finally got the am nap right.  The last couple of days I have been putting her down at around 3hrs45 and she has been going down really peaceful and within a minute or two and sleeping for 1hr20-30 minutes!  We are so excited as this is a long nap for her and 2 cycles.

For her pm nap I have been putting her down at around 3hrs30-40 and she goes down peaceful and within a couple of mins then has been waking up at 28-35 minutes which is great because with such long awakes she has to only get a quick cat nap. 

For bedtime after long am nap and short pm nap she seems to be able to make it for 2hrs45 minutes and going to bed for once has been peaceful and quick.  Fantastic!  We have tried putting her down earlier after a short pm nap but she is just not tired.  For the most part she is sleeping 9-11.5 hrs through the night.  The only issue is that the last 2 nights she has woken at 4:30ish and it has taken an hour or a bit more for her to fall back asleep.  The first night I went to nurse her as she has a cold and it sounded like she was having a hard time breathing with the coughing.  Even so, it took her an hour to stay asleep.  Every time I put her down she cried and got worked up because of the cold.  Last night she played for about 20 mins then fussed for another 20.  She was really trying to fall back asleep but she kept coughing.  After her being up almost 45 mins I finally went in and nursed her.  She fussed a second when put down but was able to put herself back to sleep in a couple of minutes.  All together she was up a little over an hour.  So she woke today at around 8am which is sleeping in.  Yesterday was 7:45.  She is averaging 11 hours or so of sleep (and up 1 hr).  What could be causing the early waking?  Is it because she might be taking pm nap ut?  Does she just have to get use to it?

Tonight since she woke so late we will prob put her down at around 8pm.  It's fine since she woke at 8 but I would really like to make bedtime more like 7-7:30 but with the long awake times how do I do this?  Is she going to be going through the 1 nap transition?  Is she a bit too young for this?  I feel like we are already intentionally short napping the pm so we can do a decent bedtime but not sure what other options or suggestions there are.

I know e recommend to short nap the am nap and do long pm nap but we have had a lot of trouble with getting the awake for the pm.  Also, I feel like if pm nap does not go well then the day is shot.  If we do long am nap we know she will get at least one good nap.

Thanks for your help.

[Sjbc1019]

I want to clarify that our LO is now 9.5 months.  As you can see we have been at this for a long time.  Thank you guys so much for your help!

[katie80]

What could be causing the early waking?  Is it because she might be taking pm nap ut?  Does she just have to get use to it?

My guess is the EW is from her cold or maybe new teeth coming.  A long NW at that time can also mean UT, but on the routine you have going, it wouldn't be my first thought.  It doesn't really matter that she takes the pm nap UT, because like you said you just need that CN to make it to the end of the day.  Since you've finally got your day figured out, I'd leave it how it is for now and see what happens with the NW. If it continues, I'd try w2s first and then we could look at tweaking the routine.  Just to be sure, could you post what your day looks like in EAS format, please?

It's fine since she woke at 8 but I would really like to make bedtime more like 7-7:30 but with the long awake times how do I do this?  Is she going to be going through the 1 nap transition?  Is she a bit too young for this?

The only way to make BT earlier is to wake her up in the morning at 7-7:30 or cut some daytime sleep.  Yes, she is starting the 2-1 nap transition and no she's not too young.  There are babies who make the switch to one nap right around 12mo, which might be a possibility for you.

I know e recommend to short nap the am nap and do long pm nap but we have had a lot of trouble with getting the awake for the pm.  Also, I feel like if pm nap does not go well then the day is shot.  If we do long am nap we know she will get at least one good nap.

Yeah, I wouldn't switch the naps around if I were you, you've worked so hard to get where you are.  Sometimes people switch because their LO refuses the second nap after a longer am nap, but you're not there yet and others definitely make it work by APOPing the second nap.  I'd try all of that first.

Hope you had a nice vacation!

[Sjbc1019]

Hi

Thanks again for your help.  Our schedule for the last few days:

Mon-
Wake 6:54 (woke at 5:30, let fuss for awhile then nursed so back to sleep from 6:05-6:54)
S-10:47-12:12
S-3:53-4:27
BT-7:13

Tues
Wake 7:37 (woke at 4:28, chilled then fussed, finally nursed and back to sleep at 5:30)
S-11:24-12:45
S-4:21-4:49
BT-7:36

Wed
Wake 7:52 (woke at 4:39, fussed for awhile then finally nursed back to sleep at 5:45)
S-11:37-12:17
S-3:34-4:17
BT-7:05-5:15

Thurs
Wake 7:20 (woke st 5:15, fussed and chilled, finally nursed asleep at 6:20)
S-11:10-11:48

When she has been waking the last few days she is only fussing and coughing for a bit but you can see she is trying to settle.  She keeps moving positions, sleeping for a min, then waking and trying to settle again.  She isn't crying or really pulling up so that is why I have let her hang out for 40 mins the last few nights.  She usually does not fuss for most of the 40 mins, just trying to settle.  Finally she will let out a little cry/fuss and at that point I nurse because I can see she wants to sleep and I do not want her to start her day at 4:30-5:30.  Se nurses for 5-10 mins then I put her back down, sometimes she is asleep and other times she puts resell to sleep.

The last 2 days she has had a short am nap- I think she is ut.  She goes down really easy, usually playing for a couple of minutes then out.  She wakes happy.  The pm nap is the same although today it took her almost 10 mins to fall asleep but she didn't fuss just played.  I put her down at 3hrs20 (thinking yesterday she was ut when I put her down at 3hrs5).  She ended up falling asleep close to 3 hrs30 which I think is probably more appropriate.

I think I will try to increase her awake tomorrow am to 3hrs55-4hrs as I do think she is ut.  She is getting good sleep at night.  What do you think?

She is slowly getting over the cold.  It's at the end stage so lots of coughing but its definitely getting better.  When she wakes in the early am she does cough.   I don't think she is teething anymore.

Any insight you have is appreciated.

Thanks

[katie80]

If you end up nursing her anyway, is there a reason you don't nurse her right away when she wakes, so she's not in there rolling around so long?

Yes, I think it's worth it to push the morning A out to 4hr and see if you can't get that longer nap back.  It may help the EW also. 

[Sjbc1019]

Hi

I have been holding off on nursing because she is not crying, fusses a little then just trying to settle quietly.  I am hoping she can go back on her own- I only nurse because it is close enough in the am hours for her to start the day (5-6).  Last night she stirred at 4:30am but put herself to sleep in about 5 mins, then woke at around 5:30.  I nursed her after 5 mins of fussing just because at was 5:30 and I didn't want her day to start.  To clarify as well, she is not awake, pulling up or anything.  She looks like she is sleepy and trying to sleep.

Yesterday for pm nap I put her down at 3hrs20 (thought she seemed ut the day before at 3hrs15) after 40 min am nap.  She played for almost 10 mins then fell asleep for an hour.  She can def have pretty long awakes even after short nap.

This am I put her down at 3hrs55 and it took her 5 mins to peacefully fall asleep and she slept 1 hr6 min now.  She can def handle 4 hrs for am. 

Thanks

[Sjbc1019]

Well, her awake is throwing me off.  Last week she seemed to have decent naps either in the am or pm.  This week I cannot figure it out.  She is crying when I put her down and the am naps I have nursed her to sleep the last 2 mornings.  She has napped under 25 mins each.  Yesterday she fell asleep at 4hrs30 after putting her down a bit later and taking her awhile to fall asleep/nurse.  She woke cranky so assume ot.  Today I put her down at 3hrs55 because I thought maybe she has too much activity yesterday at 4hrs15.  She cried for about 5 mins then I nursed her to sleep.  She slept for about 20 mins, woke crying then was happy when I got her.  I cannot figure it out!  Ten for pm- yesterday I put down at 3hrs20 but she was nursed to sleep again and fell asleep at 3hrs40 and slept 18 mins.  Assume ot.  Today I put her down at 3hrs5mins and she cried for about 5 mins then put herself to sleep.  (This was after a 20 min nap).  We will see how she does.  For am nap she seemed it for a couple of days which is why I increased to 4hrs15 but think it was too soon.

She has also still been doing the waking up around 4:30-5:45am.  I have been going in sooner as you suggested but on sat she was up for 1hr15 mins before she went back down in crib.  Then she slept for 2 more hours.  The last coup,e of days I go in after about 5 mins and nurse and it has taken 40-1 hr to get her back in crib.  She has not seemed as awake though as sat night/sun am.  She goes back to sleep for an hour or two and usually wakes at 7:15-7:30.  She is sleeping 9-10 hours straight then waking (most of the time seems sleepy).  What could be causing this?

Thanks

[Sjbc1019]

Hi

More questions- would appreciate if someone could give me their insight as I am clueless and frustrated.  Last wek the 4hr awake seem to work and was giving good naps but this week she is fighting it and giving very short naps (18-36 min naps) and waking crying.  So the last 2 days I pulled back to 3hrs45 thinking she might be ot.  She has been putting herself to sleep in 3-4 mins but crying but it's a huge improvement as I was nursing her earlier this week to sleep for the am as she was crying a lot when I put her down.  However, she is only sleeping 27 minutes and wakes crying.  Is she ot?  Today pd at 3hrs45, cried for 3 mins then slept 36 min but woke quietly and playing.

For the past 2 weeks she has been waking around 4:30-5:30 after 9-10 hours of sleep.  I have let her chill then nursed and tried nursing then letting her chill.  She is almost always up for at least an hour.  If I let her chill for 30-40 mins then nurse she will fall back asleep for an hour or two.  If I nurse her right away she chills in crib for 30-40 mins then usually fall back asleep for an hour or s.  she has been waking for the most part around 7-7:30.  Any idea what could be causing this?  It doesn't seem like she wants to start the day when she wakes.

I am wondering if being awake for an hour or more after 9-10 hrs then sleeping 1-2 hrs more is making her tired in the am so she can't handle the long awake?

Today if she short naps I will put her down at 3 hrs (have been putting her down later so we don't have a crazy early bedtime but think she is so ot from less than an hours worth of naps each day this week that bet might be fine.

Any insight is appreciated.  Not sure if I cut avk to 3hrs30 fr am or keep the 3hrs45 or go back to 4hrs.  So confused.

[Ima shel Alon]

Can you please post your current EASY and her exact age?

[Sjbc1019]

Mon
Wake-7:31
S-11:57-12:20
S-4:01-4:20
Bt-7:17

Tues
Wake 7:15
S-11:26-11:45
S-3-3:31
Bt-6:51

Wed
Wake-7:11
S-11:30-12:06
S-4:21-4:52
Bt-7:37

Thurs
Wake-6:45
S-10:32-10:59
S-2:41-3:01
Bt-6:04

Fri
Wake-7:09
S-10:59-11:35
S-2:54-3:17

Keep in mind every morning this week she has woken up for an hour around 4:30/5:30 and chills and nurses and back to sleep for an hour or two.  She wakes after 9.5-10.5 hours of sleeping.  She does not seem to want to start the day when she wakes as she seems tired or chilled out.  (One day she did seem to want to wake but I just stayed with her for 1.5 hours and she went back to sleep for 2 hrs).

Today she has put herself to sleep for both naps which she hasn't done all week.  I feel like she is ut when I put her down today.  Am nap woke quietly and happy.  Pm nap-cried for 10 mins then put herself to sleep.  Woke after 22 mins crying.  tried to nurse back to sleep by really crying so assume ot.  She woke the same way yesterday for pm nap.

My LO is now 10 months today.  This chain has been going on forever.  It's evolved from night wakings to pd technique to naps.  My questions again are awake time and naps- why does it seem to not work this week when last week 3hrs45/4 hrs was great and why the waking up for an hour in the early am then going back to sleep?