Re: Please help, multiple NWs and naps are changing too, Can't do it anymore

[AMJ]

ok i thought that in order for me to get her to nap for 1hr in the am instead of 2hrs I would need to cut her morning A shorter so she is UT for it and therefore takes 1hr nap??? wouldn't 3hrs30min make her want to sleep longer and if I wake her after 1 hr that will make her OT and that would make her pm nap short because she wouldn't be able to handle second A?? I think that's what happened before to us. And that's how we couldn't get her to take a long pm nap.
Sorry I'm so confused and sleep deprived.

Yes I noticed that when she slept longer in the am the nap started to get shorter, about 1 hr 45 mins, and the pm nap was 45-1hr long.
I dont think she is hungry because I usually top her of with BM after she has solids

[TB9]

Trying for at ut am nap *can* work, but in my experience then you really have to make sure you push the next A to get a good nap and prevent the ut/ot loop.  If you can push that second A and get her properly tired, then by all means go for a ut am nap...but I think some people still have problems with ews if morning A is too short, regardless of how long the nap is...

[AMJ]

Aha I see. So then her 2nd A needs to be shorter for her to be able to have not OT pm nap, right? In the past I had her morning A 3 hrs 45 mins ( we stretched it hoping it would solve EUWs) and she slept for almost 2 hrs then I believe 3hrs 15/30 mins and she slept for 1 more hr and then similar A agan. But longer morning A didn't solve EWUs so I cut her am nap to 1 hr and that's when all hell broke loose. We couldn't get a long pm nap, it was only 30 mins and I couldn't resettle her.

[TB9]

What if you went back to longer am nap after a regular A of 3hr30, cap am nap at 1.5hrs, then 45min-1hr pm nap after 3hr30min A.  Bedtime would probably be after 3hr15min-3hr30min A.  So assuming 6am wakeup her day might look something like this:

6am Wakeup
Nap 9:30-11
Nap 2:30-3:15/3:30
6:45/7pm Bedtime

I am doing similar with dd2 right now but because she is older she is down to 30min pm nap.  She woke earlier today because she sttn completely but I was still able to keep her am nap at the same time because she had the long sleep overnight, so she could do more A in the am.  So I know set nap can work because I have been able to make it work with my dd, but the set nap only works if she has the good night sleep the night before and is well rested, yk?  If things are all wacky, then I need to sort out As to get back to good sleep, then once things are settled, set those nap times if her wakeups start to vary.

[AMJ]

I wish it would work but 1.5 hr am nap still leads to EWUs. For example on day 8 of set naps she had 3hrs30 mins morning A and then 1.5 hr am nap and on day 9 she woke up at 3:50 am

I just wish she didn't have those EWUs, then she could've slept as much as she wanted in the am and that would make it easier to get a shorter pm nap. Only 1 hr am nap works, max 1hr15min and because she always wakes earlier then 6 am (5:15-5:30) then she ends up with a long morning A anyways. I don't know anymore what are the appropriate As for her.

sorry what sttn stands for?

thanks again!!!

[TB9]

Sttn =  sleep throught the night

Well, if you need to do 1hr am nap, then do 1hr am nap and try to figure out a good A for between those naps   Once you have the As figured out, you can set those nap times.  If you are unsure of her As then start at the last good A time that you had and go from there.

[AMJ]

thank you! I will give it a try and I will post an update.

[AMJ]

Tinkerbell99,
I was thinking as to why do you think that multiple NW are cause by too much day sleep? DD didn't have good naps for quiet some time. I thought this was due to OT.

Thanks

[Layla]

Hi Alla,

Sorry to jump in (again)...Tink is right in that too much daytime sleep can cause night waking so 1.5hr nap and a catnap/shorter nap is probably about right for her but i honesty think that you need to work on teaching her independent sleep because from what i remember she's almost always been aided in some way (bf and now shh/patted to sleep) and all those night wakings could also be from not knowing how to transition. You need to stop shh/patting her TO sleep and particularly into deep sleep.

Also as someone suggested on the night waking board (I'll lock that post so that we can keep all the advice in one place), could some of the solids be causing her too much gas?

[AMJ]

hi Layla, no problem at all.

I was thinking it could be due to not being able to resettle herself or that she is used to a boob since i just fed her every time she woke up at night.
I started to gradually wean her from shush/pat to S. there is no improvement yet but it's very hard to do it at night because she just can't resettle. Even when she was able to put herself to S at the beginning of a nap or a BT she could never do it on her own if resettled.

I started to decrease solids slowly too.

SO first I will work on the independent sleep and then I will reevaluate.

thanks again

[AMJ]

quick 2 questions,
- so when I work on resettling NWs properly should i do it as long as it takes or do it also by gradual withdrawing?
- if our day went like this do I give BT at 6 or at 6:30? Technically I should give it at 6 cause 2nd nap ended earlier but what is that's all the sleep Dd needs? By the way last 2 days she slept for 3 hrs in total and today it's only 2 hrs 40 mins.

Dec 19 2013 Day 11

5:30 ish WU cooing the rolled on tummy whining A(3 hrs 20 mins)
5:40 E
7:15 E broccoli carrots oatmeal
8:00 E
8:50 S(1 hr 5 mins)

9:55 WU crying on her own E A(3 hrs)
11:10 E pear banana squash water
11:55 E
12:55 S(1 hr 35 mins)

2:30 WU on her own E A
4:30 E carrots squash oatmeal little
5:25 E
5:45 awake in the crib. Gradual removal of shush/pat
6:00 BT

thanks very much!!

[AMJ]

I think it actually might be gas that is causing her discomfort at night. I sat beside her when resettling and really watched her and what I always blamed OT for could actually be gas. She always had gas since few months old and our dr said not to worry about it since it's good that it is coming out otherwise it would've been a problem. So I never gave it any importance but now that it mentioned I see the way she is moving her body and she is farting and crying. I'm the worst at reading her.

So how do I know which foods cause her gas? Do I need to start from scratch and start giving her all the foods I gave her already one by one again?

[TB9]

I think you would have to start right from scratch with the solids...you can post on the feeding solids board for more advice on that.  I have never really had to backtrack with solids much, except when dd2 was really little and wasnt eating much solids anyway.

[AMJ]

i will thanks

[AMJ]

so it looks like DDs naps are getting shorter. I'm not sure why this is happening. Either she finally caught up with sleep (but nights are still a mess) or I need to change the time of her naps. She is very tired looking after her am nap so robably is not rested enough to be able to resettle herself for a long pm nap.

Starting from Day 9 of set naps because they were good naps,
WU at 5:40,
8:45 S (1 hr 15 mins)

10:00 I woke her
1:00 S (1 hr 45 mins)

2:45 WU on her own
BT is at 6:20

Day 10 went exactly the same as Day 9 but WU is at 5:25

Now Day 11 is where things started to change.
WU at 5:30
8:50 S(1 hr 5 mins)

9:55 WU on her own crying
12:55 S (1 hr 35 min)

2:30 WU on her own crying
6:00 BT

Day 12 so far is like this:

WU at 5:20
8:50 S (55 mins)

9:43 WU on her own crying
11:10 E sweet potato carrots water
11:55 E
12:47 S(1 hr 20 mins)

2:07 WU crying tried to resettle but screaming kicking doesn't want to be picked up or touched A
2:25 E

- Should I be changing the times of her naps to get her to  sleep more? Should I offer the am nap at 8:30 instead of 8:45 so she is not as tired after 1 hr nap? or should I offer her pm nap earlier like at 12:30 if wakes before 10:00, and at 12:45 if wakes at 10:00?
When I offer her at nap at 8:45 technically she needs to sleep till 10:00 but now she wakes before 10 and crying. Same with the pm nap, she wakes crying and I am not able to resettle her. Does crying indicate that she wasn't done sleeping?

I think she is teething right now but I give her a pain killer before naps and at night.

Thanks in advance!