Author Topic: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night  (Read 13396 times)

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Offline katie80

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2014, 00:35:50 am »
What a cutie you have there  :)
Thank you!

She can start yawning even after an hour of being awake during the day and evening, but maybe she is just getting oxygen to her brain what do I know and it's not her real sleepy cue. :) What does your experience say?
I think it's quite normal to come to a point where those little, nuanced sleepy cues are not so reliable. It's best to keep an eye on the clock and what you know works for her and also still take into consideration her signals.

Just wanted to add that today woke LO from CN at 18:00 and fell asleep 21:00, she didnt feel tired before 2 hrs 20 mins after CN of 20 mins. Is it ok to start day 7:30 am and remove CN and put to bed earlier as now days are almost 14 hr days?
I'm going to answer this as I think it sums up what you've already asked in your post, but if I miss something please ask again. Yes, I think since you wake her in the morning, you can use that to your benefit and do two naps and an early bedtime. Then, you don't have to worry about capping previous naps (although I wouldn't let them go much over 2hr (2hr15 max)), and hopefully BT will become a bit more clear.



Offline NinNic

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2014, 10:16:45 am »
Yes I am going to try today without CN, as I think it might be in the way delaying bedtime a lot. She never liked CN anyways. :)

I forgot to add that she is teething and a bit fussy when BF and also at evening bedtime, think it's itching a lot. She likes to chew on my finger to calm her. Any advice on teething?

Is it ok to have normal play time for A time slot before bed and when I see sleepy cues get her to a more calmer environment for few mins before putting her to bed?

Thanks for all your advice, it¨s really worth sooooo much!!!  :)

Offline katie80

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2014, 20:22:37 pm »
I forgot to add that she is teething and a bit fussy when BF and also at evening bedtime, think it's itching a lot. She likes to chew on my finger to calm her. Any advice on teething?
I guess just try to find things that help comfort her... chewing on your finger is good (until teeth come through! ;)).  Cold washcloths also work well or a teether just out of the fridge/freezer.  If you think it's bothering her so much that she is struggling to sleep, you can try a dose of meds.

Is it ok to have normal play time for A time slot before bed and when I see sleepy cues get her to a more calmer environment for few mins before putting her to bed?
Yes... some LOs need a bit calmer activity the whole time and some just need a bit to transition.  You may find she needs a more low key A time right as she drops the CN and is a little more tired, but that should even out as she gets used to the longer stretch to BT.



Offline NinNic

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2014, 19:24:24 pm »
I'm back again :)

We are now up to 2 hrs 45 mins A time and 2 naps. It is going much better with putting to bed at night, in total she has A time of around 3 hrs before she falls asleep for the evening, takes her around 20-30 mins to fall asleep. We have been doing 2 hrs 45 mins A time for 12 days now.The naps are not going as well for past 2 weeks, she will wake up after 30-40 mins into to her naps both am and pm nap, I usually can put her back to sleep with the am nap, but sometimes she refuses to sleep in pm. Today she woke after 40 mins into her om nap and did not cry or anything, was just lying in her bed for a long time and did not fall asleep again. Sunday night she woke up at 2 am, was not hungry and had a hard time falling back to sleep, she was awake for 1 hour. She lately has a tendency to wake up around 1-2 am and she is not really hungry.

She normally sleeps 11-12 hrs at night. Is it time for me to increase A time even more? Or is she OT? She seems to be comfortable being awake 2 hrs 45 mins during the day. Just thinking that she is up 3 hrs before falling asleep at night then maybe her A time should be increased also during the day. Don't understand why she is waking up from her naps. I don't let her sleep for more than 1 hr 30 mins now for her naps as I think might be too much with more. She doesn't need less than 1 hr 30 mins does she for her naps? I know you've said less is not good.

Offline katie80

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2014, 05:12:20 am »
Hi :) How old is she now... about 6mo?

It does sound like it's worth it to try to push to 3hr A. The hard time resettling the pm nap and her waking after 40min and being happy to just lay there sounds UT. The NW could indicate UT as well (or OT from the short second nap). I'd try pushing to 3hr and see if that helps.

I don't let her sleep for more than 1 hr 30 mins now for her naps as I think might be too much with more. She doesn't need less than 1 hr 30 mins does she for her naps? I know you've said less is not good.
No, I'd still let her sleep for 1.5hr each nap. Until you start going over a 13hr day, I wouldn't worry about capping any naps.



Offline NinNic

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2014, 19:21:04 pm »
Hi, thanks for reply.  :) She will be 6 mo this Friday.

Started increasing to 3 hr A time today, am nap went fine, but pm nap she woke after 30 mins but managed to get her to sleep, maybe she was OT? For the evening she went down fine. Lets see what happens at night.

My question is now, how do I smoothly increase her A time gradually so we don't get to these problems with nap and night wakings regularly? How much could I i.e increase A time per week or every other week from now on even if its just 5-10 mins?

Around what age do you think she will be ready typically for 2-1 transition if she by 6 mo has A time of 3 hr? Just would like to have as smooth as possible transition as been reading how tough 2-1 transition can be! Would rather do this gradually with A time increase and nap time transition instead of having few months where things are really bad, is this possible? What do you recommend? :)

When she is up to 13 hr days again, what do I do then with naps and bedtime?


Offline katie80

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2014, 00:57:06 am »
Started increasing to 3 hr A time today, am nap went fine, but pm nap she woke after 30 mins but managed to get her to sleep, maybe she was OT? For the evening she went down fine. Lets see what happens at night.
She might have been a bit OT for the second nap, but great that she resettled. Hopefully, that will even out over the next week or so and she'll sleep through.

My question is now, how do I smoothly increase her A time gradually so we don't get to these problems with nap and night wakings regularly? How much could I i.e increase A time per week or every other week from now on even if its just 5-10 mins?
It's hard to say... a lot of babies even out for awhile on two naps. So, she may not need any A time changes for a couple months. You just need to be aware of the signs: naps getting shorter (consistently, not just a day here or there), NWs where she's happy to just be awake, and early morning wakings after nothing different in the routine. If any of those things happen for a period of 4-7 days (and you can rule out teething, developmental changes, etc), it's likely time for another push in A time.

Around what age do you think she will be ready typically for 2-1 transition if she by 6 mo has A time of 3 hr? Just would like to have as smooth as possible transition as been reading how tough 2-1 transition can be! Would rather do this gradually with A time increase and nap time transition instead of having few months where things are really bad, is this possible? What do you recommend? :)
Again, it's kind of hard to say. If you're starting off on a solid routine, which you have, the 2-1 will not necessarily be very difficult. It was quite easy, in fact, with my DS1, but he's pretty adaptable to change. Most babies start the transition around 10-12mo, meaning you really start capping one nap at that time to fit it all in the day. Once you start the transition, it can will be several months before you're completely on one nap (although, it does go quickly for some babies too). Here are a couple links on the 2-1 that are quite helpful: From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older), from 2 to 1 nap - how, when and the bumps

When she is up to 13 hr days again, what do I do then with naps and bedtime?
You'll likely start capping the second nap in order to keep a reasonable BT. This would probably be more around 8/9mo. So, it may look like this...
Wake 7am
Nap 1 10:30-12pm
Nap 2 3:30-5pm
BT 8pm

Then, if she starts fighting BT, it might look like this...
Wake 7am
Nap 1 10:30-12pm
Nap 2 3:30-4:30pm
BT 8pm

Or, this...
Wake 7am
Nap 1 10:45-12:15
Nap 2 4-5pm
BT 8pm

It all depends on what works best for your LO and you. :)



Offline NinNic

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2014, 20:40:11 pm »
Hi,

Thanks for all the info! :)

So le'ts say I notice she needs A time increased around 7 mo, should I try to increase to 3 hr 15 mins as that is what is in Average A times? If it´s 8 mo increase A time to 4 hr? Do I do it 15 mins at a time for 4 days and then continue? Just find it hard to know how much I should increase with when I see signs that A time needs to be increased.

When the 2-1 transition is complete at what time and for how long should the nap be?

I´m sure I will have a lot more questions when time is closer. :)

Offline katie80

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2014, 00:44:56 am »
Do I do it 15 mins at a time for 4 days and then continue?
Yes, this is usually the best way forward... when you think she needs more A, add 10-15min and hold for 3-5 days. If things aren't better, add 10-15 more. Some LOs can make jumps of 20-30min, but I'd say normally it's more around 10-15.

When the 2-1 transition is complete at what time and for how long should the nap be?
Again, totally dependent on the LO. My DD didn't fully get there til about 17/18mo, and she wasn't ever a long napper. So she did an 1.5hr nap from 11:30-1pm and then 12-1:30 for a long time. She moved to 1-2/2:30 around 3yrs and napped an hr most days until she was 4. My DS started his one nap at 11:30am-2pm (he was 15/16mo). We pushed to 12pm for 2-2.5hr around 18/20mo and were at 1-3pm by about 22/23mo. At about 27/28mo, I cut to 1-2:30 and at around 33/34mo, I cut to 1:30-2:30. He still naps at 1:30-2:30 about 4-5 days a week.



Offline NinNic

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2014, 19:17:24 pm »
Last night LO slept fine during the night, she woke around 5 am and fell asleep again. She woke during both naps today, (am nap I got her to fall back asleep after 5 mins, pm nap woke after 1 hr and then I tried to get her back to sleep but it was hard) and took over an hour for her to fall asleep in the evening. Do you think she might be OT as she hasn't slept properly for her naps for a few days now? I guess it takes some time for her to adapt to new A time?

You say I should hold for 3-5 days when increasing A time in the future, should not do it longer as i.e. now we are on 3rd day and still not sleeping naps well?

Great info to go by regarding your children and how different it can be. Was their WU and BT 7? Is there min/max amount of time for this nap? Did you push A time before nap 10-15 mins at a time when nap and night time wakings would appear? How much can you push that one nap so that there is enough A time in afternoon?

Do you cap nap bit by bit when you see that there are regular NW until it is like a CN of 30 mins and then remove nap completely?

Just wanted to ask how your children were/are at wonder weeks, did they cry a lot or was that more when they were very young (up to 5 mo) and did their sleep get very affected? Just nice to know what to compare with and what to expect as it seems to be very individual also. :)

Offline katie80

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2014, 20:14:11 pm »
Last night LO slept fine during the night, she woke around 5 am and fell asleep again. She woke during both naps today, (am nap I got her to fall back asleep after 5 mins, pm nap woke after 1 hr and then I tried to get her back to sleep but it was hard) and took over an hour for her to fall asleep in the evening. Do you think she might be OT as she hasn't slept properly for her naps for a few days now? I guess it takes some time for her to adapt to new A time?
Yeah, it sounds like she's still adjusting and might be a bit OT.

You say I should hold for 3-5 days when increasing A time in the future, should not do it longer as i.e. now we are on 3rd day and still not sleeping naps well?
Honestly, it's kind of a feel thing and you have to look at the whole picture.  You've increased A time a lot in the last 6 weeks, so right now it seems like she's still adjusting to the times, rather than needing more, iyswim.  I think you have to go by her temperament and sleep overall to gauge whether you need to increase more.  Right now, I'd say stick with what you're doing.  You may even go back to 2h45m in the morning, as she was sleeping well for that nap and just extend the middle A time.  Unfortunately, it's not always a science (as much as we'd like it to be) and it takes a bit of trial and error. Is she working on any teeth/developmental stuff? She's close to a WW too, I think. Those might be factors as well.

Not sure I totally understand all these questions.
Great info to go by regarding your children and how different it can be. Was their WU and BT 7?
My DD's WU and BT were 6:30am and 6:30-7pm.  My DS was a 7-7 kid.

Is there min/max amount of time for this nap?
Do you mean min/max amount of time for the one nap? I'd say min is 1h30min (although 2hr would be best, some just don't nap that long) and max is probably 3hr.

Did you push A time before nap 10-15 mins at a time when nap and night time wakings would appear?
On one nap? It was probably more like 30min and was really more by feel rather than mandated by nap refusal/NW (although that did happen every now and then).

How much can you push that one nap so that there is enough A time in afternoon?
Not sure what you're asking here.  I've always ended up cutting the nap at some point rather than continuing to push it out in order to preserve BT... but I'm not sure that's what you mean.

Do you cap nap bit by bit when you see that there are regular NW until it is like a CN of 30 mins and then remove nap completely?
Different for each kid... I ended up capping to 30-45min on the days my DD napped and then she ended up going to an afternoon preschool and refused to nap on the days she was home.  I'll likely do similar with my DS, but we're going along the route of just allowing more and more no nap days and keeping the nap days at around an hr for now.  We'll see what happens.  The 1-0 is often the longest of the transitions and can last for what seems like ages!

Just wanted to ask how your children were/are at wonder weeks, did they cry a lot or was that more when they were very young (up to 5 mo) and did their sleep get very affected? Just nice to know what to compare with and what to expect as it seems to be very individual also.
Yes, very individual.  I didn't know much about WW with my DD, so can't say I noticed much, but probably just chalked it up to her going through something developmental.  My DS1 is really easy-going and very textbook/angel.  So, while I may have noticed some extra fussiness or sleep blips, they were minor.  My DS2 is definitely more touchy and I see that he is clingy and does have sleep disturbances during a WW, but his sleep on the whole has never been very stable, so he seems thrown off by a lot. 



Offline NinNic

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2014, 15:41:44 pm »
Thanks for your reply.  :)

Yes I meant for the one nap, so 1.5 hr to 2 hr for that one nap?

Yes I meant how much to push A time for that one nap, so around 30 mins?

Sorry for not being clear on questions. What I meant to ask is around what time that one nap will eventually end up for there to be enough A time in morning and afternoon after nap or is it very individual i.e. some have it at 11 am/12 pm or even 1 pm?

Since Saturday LO has woken up at night from around 4:20 am-5:20 am and just talking and talking to herself and not falling asleep. Last night it took her 2 hrs to fall asleep. She talked for 2 hrs!! She is in her WW so not sure if this is affecting her sleep. Also she wakes from her naps early mainly pm nap, am nap usually go better. I mean it can't be she is UT do you think or is it WW? Just confused....

Merry Xmas!!!  :)

Offline katie80

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2014, 05:35:32 am »
Since Saturday LO has woken up at night from around 4:20 am-5:20 am and just talking and talking to herself and not falling asleep. Last night it took her 2 hrs to fall asleep. She talked for 2 hrs!! She is in her WW so not sure if this is affecting her sleep. Also she wakes from her naps early mainly pm nap, am nap usually go better. I mean it can't be she is UT do you think or is it WW? Just confused....
Hmm... definitely confusing, sounds like it could be either one. It's happened for 3 straight nights? Can you post your EASYs from those days? You're right, I wouldn't think UT, esp if she's not taking full naps. :-\

Merry Christmas to you! :)



Offline NinNic

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #28 on: December 25, 2014, 09:45:16 am »
Here are the last few days:  :)

Mon 22 Dec:
WU 5:35 tried to get her to sleep for 1 hour didn't work
E 7:05
S 9:15-10:44
E 11:05
S 13:47-15:20
E 15:30
E 17:49
Put in bed 18:11 talking and talking fell asleep 20:15

Tues 23 Dec:
WU 5:25 picked her up at 6:35
E 7:05
S 9:15-10:41
E 11:00
S 13:48-14:31 woke up got her back to sleep woke up after 10 mins twice WU 15:22
E 15:36
E 18:00
Put in bed at 18:20 fell asleep 18:55 on her own
WU 2:30 fell asleep after few mins
WU 4:25-4:55 BF fell asleep after

Wed 24/12:
WU 7:15
E 8:16
S 10:14-11:42
E 12:18
S 14:45-15:31 WU got her back to sleep 15:37 woke 2 times
WU 16:00
E 16:26
E 18:12
Put in bed 18:55 fell asleep 19:08
WU 4 am fell asleep

This morning she woke at 6:15. This morning put her to bed at and fell asleep at 9:15 she was really tired, couldn't keep her up longer.

It's weird, but I see a pattern that she falls asleep much easier at night when she wakes up after 45 mins-1 hr into her pm nap.

What do you think? Why is she not sleeping longer in morning? Why these NW?




Offline katie80

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2014, 19:35:20 pm »
Hmm, I'm not really sure, tbh. I'm not that great at EASY! :P Is she teething at all right now? If so, do you give meds?

It's weird, but I see a pattern that she falls asleep much easier at night when she wakes up after 45 mins-1 hr into her pm nap.
Yes, I see that too, although the day she fell asleep the quickest, was when she didn't wake so early in the morning. I don't know that I find a consistent pattern over those three days... what has happened the last couple?

I'll see if I can get a second opinion for you as well.