Author Topic: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night  (Read 13274 times)

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Offline NinNic

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2014, 20:39:47 pm »
She is teething but don't think that is what is waking her up though. I'm pretty sure.

The last days have been the same. It is really confusing! Would really appreciate second opinion if possible.

Here is EASY:

Thu 25 Dec:
WU 6:15 picked up 6:35
E 6:50
S 9:15-11:18 woke her
E 11:30
S 14:15-14:54 tried get her back to sleep didn't work
E 15:25, 17:50
Put to bed 18:14 cried 18:30 fell asleep 18:50
DF 22:14
WU 4 am BF 4:15 got her back to sleep 5:44

Fri 26 Dec:
Woke her 7:28
E 8:08
S 10:20-11:34
E 12:10
S 14:41-15:22 got her back to sleep 15:27 woke up 16:04
E 16:18, 18:10
Put to bed 18:59 fell asleep 19:04
Woke 21:10 cried a lot BF 21:25 after BF took her 40 mins to fall asleep
WU 1:57 fell asleep after few mins
WU 5:40 got her back to sleep 7:10

Sat 27 Dec:
Wok her her 7:42
E 8:09
S 10:31-11:02 got her back to sleep 11:09-12:10
E 12:21
S 15:22-16:00 got her back to sleep 16:02-16:07 then wouldn't go back to sleep
E 16:32, 18:13
Put to bed 18:57 fell asleep 19:05
WU 22:14 crying BF fell asleep
WU 5:15 talking crying got back to sleep 6:47

Sun 28 Dec so far:
WU 7:37
E 8:00
S 10:12 (was really tired)-10:44 got her back to sleep 10:48-11:46
E 12:19
S 14:52-15:26 got her back to sleep 15:30-16:19
E 16:26, 18:15
Put to bed 19:15 fell asleep 19:35

Seems like she is OT, what do you think? Now that she is waking so early and not falling asleep until later in morning she is really tired for her first nap. What is your advice?


Offline katie80

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2014, 04:47:31 am »
Are you giving meds for the teething? Although it may not be waking her up, it could be enough discomfort to keep her awake... those are some long NWs. :(

Otherwise, I wonder if she doesn't need a little more A time before the afternoon nap. :-\ She's taking decent morning naps, likely because she's so tired, but you're having to resettle every afternoon nap, unless she's had a really long A time in the morning (the days you couldn't get her back to sleep). And even after you do resettle, she doesn't always take a full nap in the afternoon.



Offline NinNic

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2014, 10:50:03 am »
She is not showing signs that she is uncomfortable from teething. Not crying usually, just doing mantra turning her head seems like trying to get back to sleep. When she can't she gets annoyed thats when I go in to help her fall asleep. Last night woke around 4:30 and couldn't get her back to sleep until 6:15 and only slept until 7:05. This morning her A time was 3h 8 mins (she fell asleep without fussing and crying after 3 mins and is still sleeping now for 1h 30mins. Does this mean I should increase morning A time too?? When increased A time first few days to 3h she slept longer in morning to around 6:30 then started waking much earlier and not falling asleep on 5th day onwards.

Offline Ima shel Alon

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2014, 15:22:06 pm »
I agree with Katie, your LO sounds a bit UT to me. There are many babies this age that can manage a bit more than 3h and perhaps she is one of them.
I would try and push the second A time by maybe 10min and see if it makes any difference to the length of the nap and the NW. I wouldn't increase first A time just yet to see if the second A time is the problem or not.
I know she might seem too tired to handle the A time but whenever you put her for her second A time when she seems tired to you you are getting what seems to be an UT nap.
My DS was the same, I always had to hold him for the last 30min of his A time because he was so fussy but if I put him for his nap when I thought he was ready I always got a short nap.
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Offline NinNic

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #34 on: January 01, 2015, 20:25:45 pm »
Thanks for both your advice, I now need some more advice.  :)

Things def got a bit better with A time increase. I increased A time for am too as I didn't get the reply until after I did. :)Here are the last days:

Tues 30 Dec:
WU 7:05 (previous night had NW at 4:35 didn't fall asleep until 6:15)
E 8:15
S 10:13-11:56 woke her up
E 12:20
S 15:49-16:49 put her to bed 15:17 as didn't seem tired before that cried so had to help her fall asleep, didn't try to get her to sleep longer as was already so late
E 16:50, 18:20
Put to bed 20:00 did find it difficult to fall asleep at 20:22, felt she wasn't quite enough tired
Heard some noise at 5:10 am and 5:30 am got back to sleep

Wed 31 Dec:
WU 6:10 picked her up 6:50
E 7:45
S 9:42-(put her to bed 9:38 cried so had to help her fall asleep)-10:12 got her back to sleep 10:19 woke 10:29 had to stay with her patting her for her not to wake up, woke her 11:27
E 11:50
S 14:56- (put her to bed 14:38 cried so had to help her fall asleep) 16:27 woke her
E 16:30, 18:15
Put to bed 19:39 did find it difficult to fall asleep at 20:11, felt she wasn't quite enough tired

Thu 1 Jan:
WU 6:05 picked her up 6:45
E 7:36
S 9:24 ( put her to bed 9:00, pooped so had to change her back to bed 9:16 cried so had to help her fall asleep)-10:12 got her back to sleep 10:23 woke her 11:00
E 11:19, 13:05
S 14:21 (put to bed 14:13 cried so had to help her fall asleep)-14:54 got her back to sleep 14:59 woke her
E 16:00, 18:12
Put to bed 19:12 was crying had to calm her fell asleep 20:45
 

1. Find difficult to go by A time from when she wakes up or when pick her up from bed in morning. What is your advice on this when there is a diff of around 45 mins? Should I stay with 3h A time in am?

2. Seems like I should not let her sleep more than 1h 30mins. When she sleeps 30mins-1h for pm nap she needs around 3h A time in pm, which also shows she def needs more A time after am nap of 1h 30mins. Days are now 14h days, which is far too long, how do I shorten them, do I start shorten am nap or pm nap?? How long will A time be if I shorten and how much do I start shorten nap with?

3. How do I get her to sleep more than 10h we are having now with still early WU of around 6 am?

4. How much A time do you think she needs right now for pm? I was thinking 3h 30min maybe for pm? Is she still getting used to A time increase in pm as it took her even longer to get to sleep this evening, thought of putting her to bed a bit later this evening to see if she wasn't tired enough last 2 evening.

Offline Ima shel Alon

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #35 on: January 01, 2015, 21:29:27 pm »
When she wakes up in the morning does she stay awake in her cot and quiet? Is there a chance she is falling back to sleep then?
And is there a chance that you are confusing UT with OT at BT? Is she fighting sleep because she is not ready to go to sleep or because she is too tired and stimulated?
I would try and keep the days to 12h if you want 12h nights. So either try and put her at 19 to bed and see if she is fighting sleep then or she is actually OT at 20 when you put her in the past or you can keep the second A time like it was before and not aim for a full nap. Just always remember to look out for OT. She might still need 2 full naps and if she won't get them then maybe she is not ready for capping a nap in that way. But it's still worth a try, maybe she us LSN?
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Offline NinNic

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #36 on: January 01, 2015, 22:11:17 pm »
How do you differentiate OT with UT?

In morning she def won't go back to sleep, she is ok for about 40 mins then she cries like she wants to come up.

In evening I'm confused, she doesn't seem tired before 3h A time right now  or at least can't see it, she is busy talking fully awake when getting changed. When we have calm time before sleep she is quite calm will cry/fuss a little. When put her to bed she does mantra but gets annoyed when doesn't fall asleep and it takes some time for her to fall asleep. It is the same right now before her naps too she gets annoyed and cries.

So I don't cap am nap but pm nap?

So better to cap pm nap to get her to bed by 7pm otherwise bedtime will be too late

I tried A time for 2h 45 min day before Katie said I should increase A time and she woke for both her naps after 40 mins and at night at 4:30 am and couldnt get her back to sleep until 6:15 am. In evening put her to bed after 2h 45min A time fell asleep after 35mins.

What is LSN?

Offline Ima shel Alon

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2015, 13:16:26 pm »
How do you differentiate OT with UT?
By the cry and by how she is, does she want to play instead of going to bed, is she trying to engage you.

In evening I'm confused, she doesn't seem tired before 3h A time right now  or at least can't see it, she is busy talking fully awake when getting changed. When we have calm time before sleep she is quite calm will cry/fuss a little. When put her to bed she does mantra but gets annoyed when doesn't fall asleep and it takes some time for her to fall asleep. It is the same right now before her naps too she gets annoyed and cries.
If it's happening at BT after a good day of naps then I would say UT or OS, but if it's after a day of short naps and fussiness then I would say it's OT that turned into OS and she then can't fall asleep because she is too wound up.
How old is she exactly right now? Maybe the 3h A time is not enough for her anymore?
So I don't cap am nap but pm nap?
Like I said before I wouldn't cap it unless really necessary.
Let's say that she needs much more A time than what she is doing now, then her day might look like this:

7-10:30 A
10:30-12 S
12-15:30 A
15:30-17 S
17-19/20 A, then BT

You have a few choices - to giver her a 13h day, 11h night which is ok and many babies do or cap her PM nap so you have enough A time before BT, which is a risk because she might still need her 2 full naps and she can get OT. There is no one answer to it as every baby is different, you'd just need to trial and error.
So better to cap pm nap to get her to bed by 7pm otherwise bedtime will be too late
IMO it's always better to set the BT hour and go by that. If she needs a longer A time before BT then you can cap her PM nap, but cap it as little as possible.

I tried A time for 2h 45 min day before Katie said I should increase A time and she woke for both her naps after 40 mins and at night at 4:30 am and couldnt get her back to sleep until 6:15 am. In evening put her to bed after 2h 45min A time fell asleep after 35mins.
But you said before that you gave her 3h A time before naps and she was not happy about it, right?
That's why I asked before how old is she, if she is like 6m old then 2:45 and perhaps even 3h A time might be too little for her.

LSN = low sleep needs
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Offline NinNic

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2015, 20:20:04 pm »
I´m very confused at the moment as today she has been very tired and fussy specially when BF. She might be going through a growth spurt. Do they get more tired then? I had to put her to bed earlier today for both naps and at BT she was crying a lot so I BF her again (I had just BF her) and she was taking a full feed again and fell asleep at my breast (that almost never happens). Last night she woke at 4 am, started crying 4:50 am so I BF her and she took a full feed from both breasts (normally feed her from 1 breast at night).

When I look back at when I started increasing her A time with more than 2h 30min, which was over a month ago she has hardly slept through a full pm nap. I'm thinking maybe she is OT and not UT with both pm nap and NW? When she wakes at night and doesn't fall asleep it's not like she is ready to play, she does mantra, but doesn't fall asleep and then it's hard to get her to fall back to sleep, which results to her being awake for around 2 hrs.Is this OT?

She was 6 months on 19 Dec so 6 1/2 months. Maybe she is OS before BT.

I don't think she has LSN as she has been quite consistent in sleeping 12 hr nights and sleeping full naps except that CN was always difficult with her.

I don't really know what to do tomorrow with A time, nap and BT?! I'm confused!!

Offline katie80

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2015, 00:28:23 am »
It does sound like it could be a GS, definitely. There typically is a decent one around 6mo and it can make a LO more tired. When you put her down earlier for naps today, did she take full ones? Do you see any teeth coming? Some LOs like to nurse more often when they get teeth.

I think you may have added too much A time over all during the day and that may be making her OT. If you look back at her EASYs and the advice from both Noa and me, I think it looks best to keep the morning A at 3hr and the middle A at 3h15/20 (maybe 3h30, we'll have to see). It's hard to know what to do about BT, as if you're not getting a consistent day, BT can fluctuate a bit.

How often are you currently feeding her at night? You mentioned she woke at 4, but you didn't go to feed her til 4:50... would she go back to sleep faster if you fed her right away?



Offline NinNic

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2015, 20:37:31 pm »
Yes she did sleep full naps on Saturday when she was very tired (I've added EASY below). I feel she has been tired Sunday and today as well, I've added EASY for those days too. She has 2 teeth now and I think there are more on the way. Seems fussy during BF, don't know if its teething or GS.

Usually don't feed her at night for some time, I have tried to feed her when she wakes up to see if she is hungry and if she falls asleep afterwards. Usually she won't fall asleep if she wakes around 5-6 am.

She is trying to roll over for her naps during the day so harder to get her to fall asleep. She sleeps on her belly for naps and back at night.

Saturday:
Woke LO 7:10 (in the night she woke at 4 am  I BF her and she fell asleep 20 mins after)
E 7:57 very fussy at BF
S 8:51-10:43 had to put her down that early as she was so tired
E 11:27
S put to bed 13:16 was fussy had to pat her to calm her fell asleep 13:35-15:13 slept through!!
E 15:26, 17:23, 18:16
Put to bed 17:47 crying a lot BF 18:16 fell asleep at breast 18:43
DF 22:20
Briefly woke up 5:30 fell asleep again

Sunday:
WU 6:00 BF to see if she was hungry and would fall asleep after, didn't fall asleep took her up 6:43
E 7:34
S 9:16 (think put her to bed too late) WU 9:49 got her back to sleep 9:51-10:37
E 11:20
S Put to bed 13:17 trying to roll over all the time got her to sleep 13:53 WU 14:30 got back to sleep 14:35 by patting 14:35-15:05 but not deep sleep as kept on moving from time to time, which means I still had to pat her for 40 mins ( this usually happens with pm nap) if stop patting she will wake up fully, fell into deep sleep 15:05-15:49
E 16:06, 18:00
Put to bed 18:34 was very tired rubbing eyes a lot fell asleep on her own 19:06
Woke 22:05 but not fully think she was hungry BF her
Woke 2:55 BF both breasts
Woke 5:45 was wet had to change BF after to see if she was hungry and would fall asleep, had to help her fall asleep slept 7:00

Monday: After her am nap she seems to start rubbing her eyes after only 10 mins today and yawning so many times after that. We usually go out after am nap for a while in pram and she usually yawns a lot when in pram. So wanted to put her down earlier for her pm nap as she seemed very tired.
WU 7:47
E 8:22
S 10:35-12:14 had to help her fall asleep moving a lot trying to roll
E 12:23
S Put to bed 14:02 as rubbing eyes and had been yawning a lot trying to roll all the time got her to sleep 14:38 WU 15:14 could not get her back to sleep moving all the time crying and wanting to roll over picked her up 16:20 also BF 15:36
E 17:40
Put to bed 18:20 was crying had to calm her by singing put her down in bed 18:30 fell asleep 18:45


Do you think she is going through some kind of period?

She seems so hyper when putting her to bed, constantly moving trying to roll over.

Should i put her to bed when she shows signs of being so tired i.e. rubbing her eyes a lot?

I still can't seem to figure out this pm nap?! It is really frustrating!!  :(





Offline katie80

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2015, 01:02:22 am »
(((Hugs))), I know how frustrating naps can be! It does seem like a GS, probably combined with some developmental stuff. That could be making her more tired and/or appear more tired. Developmental leaps can be exhausting physically and mentally/emotionally for LOs.

What it looks like to me is that she used Sat and Sun to catch up a bit and by Mon afternoon, she took an UT nap. I still think her ideal A times are about 3hr/3-3hr15/3-3.5hr? (not quite sure on this one), although Noa may disagree with me. :-\

Should i put her to bed when she shows signs of being so tired i.e. rubbing her eyes a lot?
I think you have to keep track of time and watch her signs. On Saturday morning, she was clearly tired and she fell asleep after 2h40 A, so about 20min early. That's not too far off and she clearly needed it. But, on Monday, you put her down before 2hr (over an hr early) in the afternoon and she had trouble falling asleep. When she did fall asleep at 2h24min A, she still took an UT nap. So, even though she was yawning and rubbing her eyes, the timing was still too early. I know it's maddening, believe me, but I do think you have to keep in mind what you know she can do (unless she's ill, of course, then all bets are off). She's practicing new skills and likely going through a GS, so is tired, but you want to make sure she is tired enough to sleep a full nap.



Offline Ima shel Alon

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2015, 13:57:48 pm »
I still think her ideal A times are about 3hr/3-3hr15/3-3.5hr? (not quite sure on this one), although Noa may disagree with me.
Not at all. I would wait perhaps a couple of days for the GS to pass and any developmental leaps to complete and I would start gradually and slowly putting her on higher A times. She sounds UT to me, like she was before, and I really don't think there is any other solution but to increase her A times.
Often babies seem tired when they are not ready for a nap and then they give us an UT nap. I know it's confusing, maybe it's better to go more with the clock and less with sleepy cues?
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Offline NinNic

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2015, 15:06:47 pm »
Thanks for both replies. :)

Just a quick reply as I'm still om a high at the moment! This morning LO woke just before 6 am, I put her to bed after around 3hr A time, she was fighting it a bit and also woke after 35 mins got her back to sleep 15 mins after and she slept for another 55 mins. Her next A time I kept looking at clock and watching her for sleepy cues, she was lying on her back playing around with pillow roling talking with a lot energy not tired at all. After 3h 33 min she started rubbing her eyes!! When I held her before putting her to bed she was not happy and not calm arching her back. I put her to bed anyways and patted her after few mins as she was not settling, she fell asleep after 3 mins of patting. She was up for 3 h 45 mins and is still asleep now almost for 1h 30 mins!!! I assume she maybe needs a bit more A time in morning too? What are your thoughts on all her A time?

It will be interesting to see how much A time she needs before bedtime when she has slept whole pm nap and how she sleeps at night. If she needs this much A time days will def be more than 12h and may cap pm nap?? What is your advice?

Offline Ima shel Alon

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Re: LO 19 weeks early wake up/wake up at night
« Reply #44 on: January 06, 2015, 18:25:19 pm »
The second A time was IMO too long for her. I don't think she slept good for it because she has the right A time, I think she just crashed from OT.
I really wouldn't jump to such A time, that's why I wrote in my previous post that her A times should be increased gradually and slowly. If you jump too quick to a really high A time she is going to get OT.
So I would increase it by 10-15min every 3-4 days and will only increase again after 3-4 days if naps are still UT. When going through the process of increasing A times it's better to go just by the clock and not with sleepy cues, unless she seems extremely OT.
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