Finally dropping the NFs... a hand to hold and some accountability, please?

[katie80]

Well, that's part of the problem, I guess... he's never been a great napper. Maybe because I haven't pushed him enough, I don't know, or maybe because he's just not. I also don't now at what point a long nap takes away from the night for him. Overhthink it, much?! Guess I'll just have to try and see.

My last question is what I should do with him at the EW? I've been doing a mix of trying to settle, feeding, etc. I'm sure I should not try to feed anymore, it just doesn't work (I think my supply plummeted, tbh, and he's not getting much). But, I've been in there lying on the floor listening to him scream for 3 weeks now and it's kind of trying on the nerves. If I get him up, I guess that's just reinforcing the waking, though. Any suggestions?

[clazzat]

I would do whatever it is that works for you at the moment.  It might not be the "right" thing to do, but it is more important that you are not stressed out about it than that you are following the rules - there is plenty of time to sort things out later when you are in a better place for it.

When we were at that stage, I had a mattress on x's floor and I would go and sleep on it when he woke early.  Sometimes he would come onto the mattress with me, sometimes he would stay in his cot and I would just reassure him that I was there without having to hang my arm into his cot!  I had a light on a timer that came on at a time that I was prepared to call the start of the day (6.20, which is what it still is now) so that he learned that when it was dark he had to stay in his room but that when the light came on it was time to get up.

[Truly Blessed]

My last question is what I should do with him at the EW?

I pretty much did it all with EW Hun, and what I did depended on what Sam was doing. If he was upset and screaming I just got him up, because like you, it got too much to lie next to him listening to that, when I knew without a doubt he WAS NOT going to resettle. Of course before this I did the 'right thing' and kept him in his cot until a decent wake up time, then had enough eventually!  WRT re-enforcing the EW, of course that is the theory that we hold fast to when we can, but when there are various things in the mix and it is going to 'Hell on a handcart' I agree wholeheartedly that sometimes you just have to take the route of the least stress 'in the moment.'. I completely understand the place you are in, and wholeheartedly empathise. I remember being the worst of 'over thinkers' and I think its wise to factor in our own personalities when deciding what we can and can't do, because those decisions affect the dymanic of the entire family, ourselves the LO who is struggling, partners and other children who of course pick up on our own tensions, and it really can be 'all consuming.' As I mentioned earlier this week, when I suggested having a 'go with the flow' day, I remember just heading out of the house, and deciding "Today, if he sleeps he sleeps, if he doesn't at least we will have had a day out of the house with less stress, and it worked out pretty well on those days when I threw my hands up in the air and left it fate. Of course, I am not saying this is a good long term plan, but something to possibly think on at the moment. I am sure that Sam picked up on my vibes (from the day he was born  ) and he still does. If I am stressed he is stressed, and I don't even need to vocalise it for him to know.

Also, with regards to APOP, I start out with the minimum and increase it in increments, so I can know I'm never doing more than needed, but enough so he knows I am there for him. I'm not convinced things would be any worse because you got him up at the moment, I suspect when he can sleep on, he will sleep on regardless of what you do. This was the way it was for us in the end anyway, as soon as the 'stage/teething/OT etc etc' righted itself, he did better. I know he is a tricky little customer with sleep, and maybe Sam was less so, but sometimes leaving it to the LO to do what comes naturally can work in the short term  .

Lots of ((HUGS)) Hun. I really hope things improve sooner rather than later.x.

[Martini~]

Honey, what you are going to do is your own decision but I guess that's what i would do based on my limited knowledge of Charlie:
- I would push BT as late as you can; I would stick to that BT for at least 2 weeks and I would be very stricked so he got used to it. I would probably go with 8pm or something similar depending what's Claire's BT --> that should give you a reasonable WU even with 10,5-11h night
- I would treat anything what is later than an agreed WU time a NW and would be very stricked how you handle those; stricked means consistent so it can be cosleeping or PUPD or WIWO or reassurance with voice or your hand;
- with 8pm BT I would go for 6:30/7am WU --> he does 11h night right now
- I would wake him at WU time to set the day
- I would wake/do the WU when he is not crying so for him to understand that you will come eventually and he doesn't have to cry for it; you will come as always in the morning
- I would make his cot a pleasant place to play and I would try to establish some play time in his cot during day
- with 7am WU I would go for a nap at 12:30 or 1pm - remember that did his first long nap when you finally pushed him in the morning?; if he does a OT nap, go for a catnap during evening; F is on one nap for months already but with OT first nap which is 40min he would go for a CN and is still OT at BT; I usually APOP a 20min nap around 4/5pm; but with later BT I would go for CN even at 6pm
- I wouldn't try the routine with short nap in the morning at all as I personally believe it's for those kids who nap in a predictable way and like long naps; with a kid who was on the verge of one nap weeks ago it will make second nap almost impossible to get

I hope that my advice is not too forceful. It's just what I would do as a person who always needs a plan:). I probably would go this way with F too and btw I do if he is OT or something goes wrong. I am not flexible with my son at all and I have to admit that I struggle with that but in the end I just think it's the best for him. He is spirited and very routine-followed. I probably made him a bit like that but I also know many friends who have children and a routine! and if the routine goes bonkers time to time, their children are flexibl. When our routine goes bonkers, F is suffering. It's also a kind of acceptance that there are kids who need something very predictable as they are too "smart") and will set their own routine in other way.

[katie80]

Thanks for your thoughts.

Marta - I honestly don't know if I have the stamina and energy to do all that. But, I will think on it. The problem is, I can't reliably do a second nap in the afternoon/early evening... only on weekends when DH is home or Tuesday afternoons when my mom has the big kids. So, if I need to do two naps, the short morning one is really my only option. I've decided not to really try for that though, unless he's up close to 5am or earlier. I also can't push BT to 8pm, as I need some alone time with Claire. I guess that means I may have to accept the early mornings, and I'm kind of getting to a place of that, but I'm convinced he needs more than the 10-10.5hrs he's getting right now, so eventually it may get better.

Vicki - I'm in agreement with all you said. Trying to keep some stress out of the picutre, as I'm sure it's not helping!

Clare - So, did you have the lights on the timer up at this age already? I'm wondering if that might be worth trying, as although he's nowhere near being able to do it on his own, at least he could start to make the connection. Although I know he's waking and screaming because he's OT, sometimes I wonder if he does keep it up because he knows eventually I pick him up and bring him to my room to feed him. If the lights came on, that might help.

[Martini~]

Katie, all what you do is fine and the best of your family. It's sometimes good to realize some things (like why you cannot do late BT) as getting up early in the morning is hard and knowing that you have to do this BUT thanks to that his BT will be earlier and you have some time only with Claire is reassuring and can give you some strength.
It will get better someday Hon:) you know it! Hugs!

[clazzat]

We did have the lights from about this age as an easy cue, but he didn't understand how they worked until a lot later (probably nearer 2 - which surprised me as e figured it out in 3 days at 18 months! ).  What it did mean was that I could say 'the light isn't on, you need to stay in bed/we need to stay here' and then when the light came on it was morning and we could leave the room - he did need me there, but he could work that out.

[katie80]

Sounds good, thanks Clare.

[katie80]

Ok, started a new routine thread, as the NFs aren't really part of the issue anymore and didn't want to bore those of you who've had enough! Thanks for all the support!!

[Truly Blessed]

Lots of Love Honey, a summary is always a good idea, help you get your own head straight 

x.