I'm unsure can someone take a look?

[babyrose]

We do have a blind up in our room, it's dark but no completely dark so it's a possibility. 2hrs 45 to 3 hrs (more 2hrs 45)  to bed, so ok I guess maybe they need a bit more their. they seem to change so quickly one minute I think we have got a hang of things the next they change!

[babyrose]

Hi, we tried the 3 hrs to bed and it seemed they both  STTN great! Tried the next night and Lewis woke @ 6:15 this morning with a few unsettled parts through the morning.

It occurred to me that he is OT as he is so unsettled but naps are a bit of a hit and miss, sometimes he sleeps great at one nap and not so much the other but at the same A times which I think may have something to do with his night sleep length.

Leo on the other hand is sleeping so much better naps and night sleep.

[creations]

So on the longer A time Leo is doing well but Lewis getting a bit OT - they do like to make you work don't they!!

[creations]

I was just wondering - would you like me to see if I can get some more eyes over here? Someone with multiple experience perhaps?
I'm not much use other than hand holding in this situation, perhaps you'd like someone to look at both routines and see where you can find a happy medium for them both?
I'm very happy to continue hand holding but feel I'm not offering much in the way of practical advice.

[babyrose]

Sure ok that would be fine, you've been a great help and more than welcome to handhold along the way!

[babyrose]

I thought I would post an EASY since I haven't for a bit.

Lewis

7:30 wu
7:45 E
10:15 sleep (2hrs 2x waking )
12:20 E
15:05 sleep ( 1 hr 45 1 waking) I thought if UT then maybe cutting sleep might help with unsettled mornings)
16:45 E
19:15 E
19:45 bed

Nw 2am and very unsettled at 6:15 x3 to settle up at 7am

Tried Lewis with 3hrs A time today and he woke 35 mins later and another 10 after that, his 2nd nap I put him down a little earlier 2hrs 50 and he slept fine. I've tried this A time before and he did sleep ok but started waking 1hr 15/20 mins which I thought UT.

Leo

7:30 wu
8:00 E
10:15 (2 hrs no wakings)
12:40 E
15:00 sleep (1hr 45 no wakings
17:00 E
19:20 E
19:45 bed

Nw 1 dummy replug

As you probably notice our milk feeds aren't 4hrs at the moment either.

[becj86]

Hi Nicola

Just jumping in with some fresh eyes, unfortunately no multiple experience though. Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread, so please let me know if I've missed something.

Leo's day looks pretty bang on perfect and Lewis has a few wakings in his nap though I reckon they could be OT and would resolve reasonably soon without doing anything (ie. let him get a little older and it will be fine). I'm not a fan of backtracking with A times unless drastically over or LO just ends up getting settled on the new shorter one and needs it extended again. Tweaks of 5-10min every few weeks is normal through this first year of life, yk? They're fairly well synchronised too, from what you've put up in that last EASY.

Lewis is a bit unsettled in the early hours of the morning - have you weaned night feeds? Could he just be a smidge hungry? GS?
Generally an UT NW is happy, not grumpy - what do you think re: his behaviour in the early AM?

I note that Lewis feeds before Leo - likely a temperament thing (?), in which case the wakings could be OS... maybe he's just the less easy-going of the two :-/

I wouldn't worry too much about milk feeds being 4hr apart - its not essential

[babyrose]

Hi bec thanks for helping out.

I do prefer them to be as close as possible with their routine it just makes things easier on me with ayden and our mad afternoons also Steven leaves for work at 4 that's also when ayden comes home for nursery.

The night feeds they dropped themselves around 3wks sgo now I still have cartons of milk upstairs as I'm still shocked that they have.

When lewis wakes with the other nights nw he was babbling for a few mins then nodded off and the 6 waking has been happier waking that's when I cut the afternoon sleep (sun&Mon) his mood has been happier the last couple of mornings.

I always fed Lewis first as he drank his milk faster buy it seems its the other way about now. Leo has completely caught up with lewis in weight and tbh he is going to overtake him (both 13lbs now)

I thought 4 hourly feeds would have kept  their Tums filled up a bit better but it's hard now with their A times increasing.

I've noticed now Leo took a while to fall asleep with 2x2 Hr naps 3hrs 15  to bed where as lewis had 1.5 (3hrs to bed) Hr last nap and crashed at b/time.

I hope you can make dome sense out if what I've wrote!

[babyrose]

Think another change is happening today. Leo woke 30mins after his first nap took to resettles to sleep the full 2hrs. And Lewis didn't budge at 2hrs 55 for 2hrs.

2nd nap 4x Leo woke up Lewis woke up once but think with a disturbed nights sleep and waking a little earlier than normal today was an OT day.

Do you think these guys are on a low end of their A time? I was just reading another post and thought your point of view was quite interesting about pushing A times up when lo's are so low quickly rather doing it slowly and taking a few weeks to see the end result.

[creations]

Stopping by to cheer you on.

I know I'm basically hand holding here but from following the thread I'd say they are on decent A times, not low, you've been gradually increasing every time the naps went short with UT and have managed (mostly) to keep the naps a good length. To me this isn't a routine where you need a big increase due to a very low A time and very short UT naps.
They are about 7.5 months now aren't they - and over the past couple of months or so they seem to have gone from relatively low A times (but it was suitable for their corrected age and they were doing long naps on those times) to now being on more of an average A time for closer to their actual age (ie non corrected).

[becj86]

They are sleeping pretty well actually, Nicola. They do seem to be tag-teaming to sabotage your Y time with waking from naps but TBH, looking at each one separately, the sleep they're getting is pretty good, especially for babies with an older sibling.

My understanding is that they were premature by quite a bit and that the correction becomes less relevant gradually. I think given the naps and nights are as they are, I wouldn't go increasing by a lot at this stage. There's a big difference in the rate of A time changes through the first year:
3mo-6mo - 0.5hr increase per month
6mo-1yo - ~0.3hr increase per month

I wonder if you could use the start/end of one nap as an anchor and stagger the rest of the day a bit to cater to each one?
So perhaps nap 2 could be at 3pm and you could then work back to accommodate their slightly different A times. I can imagine that would be really tricky though :-/

Is there something particular you're wanting to resolve at the moment? I guess its just the variability?

[babyrose]

I don't think I have increased their ATime too much over the last wee while but that's good info that to have for future.

Overall they sleep great but it's never very settled, the waking during nap time and the constant waking at 4 on and off til we get up at 7 is not so great so this really is the main issue which IMHO it's a routine problem.

Thanks for the cheers creations, yes 7.5 months now that's good that they are up to good A time lengths now I was dreading how to fit in milk feeds, changes and solids in the space of 1.5 Certainly have a lot more time in doing all those things.

[becj86]

Ok, so they're waking frequently between 4 and 7am? I presume these wakings in the early AM are happy? If so, it might be worth increasing at least the first A time a bit to see if that helps. The issue for you is that you'd have to probably do one at a time so you can resettle the OT nap wakings... I don't know, maybe you're superwoman and can resettle both at the same time? Its possible you've a little UT/OT loop starting.

DYT a feed at 4am might make a difference? It could be worth a try.

[babyrose]

It's more like a fussing shuffling around most of the time not actually waking, dummy replug helps. Not sure about being superwoman but I would certainly give it a go if it came to it.

I don't feed them at 4 as they just seem fussy not crying like they did before and I knew that's what they wanted.

OT/UT loop sounds like it could be a possibility definitely worth a try their.

[becj86]

Ok, sounds like a small increase might be worth it. Keep in mind that's the time of night for REM and shuffling kind of goes hand in hand with that a bit too, not sure if it would be the case yet, can't recall when the night separates like that rather than being in smaller cycles.