Author Topic: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?  (Read 10011 times)

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Offline gejun

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2015, 23:22:16 pm »
If he wake around 8:30, with same A, when should be BT tim.
I read you reply late, so I woke him 7:00am, aim to 10:00 nap1, and 2:00pm nap 2, if still get a 1.5hr, aim to BT 19:00?

Offline gejun

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2015, 23:30:14 pm »
I mean for short or long NW, wu are different, if set BT 19:00, the lengh of day will be different, there are three A in day, which A should be consistent firstly? last two days, first A is 3hrs, second is 3.5, last A is 4hrs, but today I think fist and second A keep consistent, last should be short as 3.5h, if the nap still 1.5h, or should I wake him if the nap longer than 1.5h?

Offline gejun

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2015, 23:49:29 pm »
7.28
wu 6:35(long NW late night)
nap1 9:30~10:00 woke up
nap2 13:15~14:45 woke up
BT 18:40 settled quickly
NW 3:40~4:00
7.29
WU: 6:25 woke naturally
Nap1:9:30~10:00
Nap2:13:20~14:45 woke himself
BT:19:00
NW: Around 3:00~5:00
7.30
WU:7:00 woke him
Nap1:10:00~10:30
Nap2:14:00~15:30 woke himself
BT:19:00
NW: Around 3:30~5:00
7.31.
Wu: 6:35 woke himself
Nap1: 9:50~10:20
Nap2: 13:45~15:00
BT:19:00
NW;4:00~4:20, but he began rolling over constantly from 1:30, was quiet, not sure if he was woken, woke up naturally at 6:10 finanlly
now it's 8:00,he yawns.
I found the log for 7.21, he slept 11 hs, the second A is 4.5h, he may really need more A? It's weird that he woke at 6:30 with a NW night, it's seem he don't want to sleep in too much?

Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2015, 06:04:03 am »
Sorry for going quiet for a while, I've been away for a couple of days.  Apart from a couple of long nws, those days are looking good  :) It looks like he's doing better with a long A in the day - the nights he's doing shorter nws are after an A of around 4hrs, though it's hard to see over 4 days.  What do you think about sticking with this routine for a few more days to see if anything emerges? Keep the first 2 As the same and let the last one vary according to how the day pans out.  After that we'll try something else to see if we can get rid of the long nws.

Also, sorry if this has been asked before but what exactly do you do when he wakes in the night? We used to get those long nws at 3/4/5am too. What fixed it was me getting much stricter about how I dealt with nws, he slept better at night so reduced his day sleep and within a week we were sorted. That was when he was 13 months and we've only had one long nw since then...



Offline gejun

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2015, 08:11:57 am »
Appreciated your helpful assistance.I will stick to for more days, I also think 4 days are too short to evaluate it,After 30mins,he could sleep longer afternoon, I have got three in four days. I never got it when tried long am, most of 1hr15mins or shorter, maybe A was not enough?
what your nw looks like? upset ,happy or calm? I am not very strict with NW maybe, sometimes I gave him water, he took it in cot himself then rolled over,till fall asleep again, sometimes he needn't water,Just rolled over himself. He cried loudly NW two weeks ago and fighted or played at naps as I posted before, but suddenly with the start of the routine, he settled quickly at naps, so strange. What do you think OT looks like at bed time? Cry at early part of night like 8:00~9:00?

Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2015, 21:47:14 pm »
It's been different for both of my children tbh. Lily used to cry early in the evening if she was OT but jack does that if he's UT.

Our long nws with Jack usually started with 30 - 45 minutes of him being fairly quiet - I might go into him once - followed by at least an hour of crying. He'd temporarily quieten when I went in but would either cry with rage when I left again or chat for 5 or 10 minutes more and then start crying again.  In the end I got really strict and only went in if he was really sounding upset, even if a long time has passed.  If he was moaning or calming in between cries I left him. If I needed to go in I just popped my head around the door, or walked over to the cot at most and firmly told him it was sleepy time  - I probably sounded quite grumpy and short with him. I didn't touch him or do anything he might want me to repeat - even speak nicely to him  :-\  It did work though.  I thought I was being firm before but changing my tone of voice and making me being in the room ultra brief and boring made a big difference in the end.  I definitely didn't offer water, check his nappy, lie him down or anything like that.

We'll see how the next few days go but I wonder if you need to change your approach to nws before making any other changes to see if that helps? If he's expecting you to be fully available in the night that might explain the nws (beyond you being available for a genuine need,  of course).  What do you think?



Offline gejun

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2015, 03:41:43 am »
Most of time he didn't cry during long NW, just was quiet and rolled over in cot, moaned if took long time to fell asleep again. so I think he didn't expect me, I just felt maybe he woke for thirsty so gave him some water occasionally, when I left, he didn't cry, drank water quietly in cot.

I may stop giving water or leave a bottle water in cot. I tried once, he could find water himslef in cot easily in cot, he drank 150ml water , I found empty bottle on morning, but he still cann't fall asleep after water.

he looks like a good temper boy,

I will be more firm, it's easy to do it.

Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2015, 08:13:10 am »
Yes, he sounds very good tempered :) Good idea to leave the water in the cot.  I wouldn't go in then if he's not crying.  I don't know if you do  (apart from to give water) or not?  Even if it's been a long time he'd cry if he needed you.



Offline gejun

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2015, 09:41:59 am »
if he cried loudly, I will gave him a cuddle , he became calm then put him down, then left or lied down on floor to observe him, I pretended to close the door to let him know i left, cheat him :P. But I think most of time,he didn't cry, so I did nothing, because I hope he can fall asleep himself , he needn't me ,if I touch him , maybe disturb him.  unfortunately it always took long time  he was asleep again. I had thought maybe he was unwell, but doctor said he is healthy, and he looks good in day, happy, play independent well. so I think is routine problem, his sleep cues was Not obviously since he was four month. he did three Cn in day for months, everyone think he is energetic. he became an independent sleeper at 6 month because rocking him to sleep was too hard, it always took 20mins and he only sleept 30mins, 45mins max,  he even began refuse the moring catnap. his naps became longer  suddenly at the first day he became independent sleeper, but early EW appeared several days later, now I know he got too many day sleep at that time.
I had thought if baby not tired enough , he will not sleep. but it seems like he will sleep whether UT or OT, but wrack his night then. just like let him became an independent sleeper is a mistake :(

I stay outside the door or lie down on floor, to wait him be asleep again, I am sure he didn't know I was in his room for some nights,someone including DH told me if he didn't cry, just leave him alone. but I know he was awake , I am worry about he cann't get sleep he need, which may effect his healthy,and always don't know when put him down next day, sometimes I am jealous mums whose baby have obvious sleep cues, they
just follow cues, even more day sleep with short nights, or mums like you ladies could figure it out , :P. cann't imagine  NW lasted so long, don't know when will be the end.

For his total sleep, I am not sure now, months ago it was about 13h~13.15, but maybe he changed now.


Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2015, 20:25:44 pm »
My two never had obvious sleep cues either. I figures most stuff out with them through trying something for a few days and then tweaking, so you're not alone there....

I think if you want to rule out behavioural influences on the nws,  you need to be consistent.  I'd try and keep out of his room unless he definitely needs you, and even then you walking in and telling him to go to sleep should be enough.  It depends on what you're comfortable with - personally I wouldn't give cuddles in the night cos with J he took that as a reason to call me back. I always say to my two they can always have cuddles in the day, no matter what, but at night it's just about sleeping  :)

It does sound like he may do better with longer A times.  Have you found the length or frequency of the nws to change since you reduced his A times?



Offline gejun

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #40 on: August 03, 2015, 00:39:48 am »
It looks like the NW length is shorter than long am/short pm, but frequency is more. And woke up naturally earlier than long am routine, I am curious why he didnít sleep in more with NW .When I tried long am, he morning A is around 4~4.5h,
Logs these two days below, unlucky, his second nap were disturbed by his Dad and Mum, Will avoid it following days.
8.1
Wu 6:10
Nap1 9:30~10:00
Nap2 13:30~14:40(was woken by DH noise)
BT 18:45
NW:3.15~3.30, 4:30~6:00
8.2
WU:7:10 I woke
Nap1: 10:20~10:50
Nap2: 14:20~15:35 I made wrong alarm clock.
BT:19:00
Fell asleep 15mins later, maybe OT at BT.
NW: 1:30~2:00 after that maybe still some NWS around 30mins around 2:30, 4;00, I am not sure, he didnít cry, but I heard noise from him. Then wide woke at 5:40, but quickly asleep till 6:10

Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #41 on: August 03, 2015, 20:22:00 pm »
Aah, ok it's hard to tell much from the last two days cos he didn't get his long nap. Do you think he's still OT? I'm wondering if he could handle a one nap day if he's regularly doing 4hrs A and does 4hr - 4.5hrs on a long AM nap routine?  If you're going to try longer A's that's probably the next thing to try, but not if he's OT still....



Offline gejun

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2015, 05:49:23 am »
yes, I don't want to make a big jump. will post our logs several days later.

Offline gejun

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2015, 10:07:13 am »
looking back logs,I think he maybe  need more A, when I did long/am routine, I always got 1.05~1.15hs nap, do you think that's because A was not enough? or OT nap for long NW closed to wu? I am thinking what's wrong when I did it.  You are right, extending A is direction to getting one nap day, I don't know how to extend A in short am routine, I looks long am is more easily to understand, just push, push moring A.

Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #44 on: August 06, 2015, 05:50:02 am »
Yes, pushing the first A to get a longer later first nap is a good way to do it, then you can AP a cn at a reasonably set time.  If he's tired, he'll take it, if not then you can do an EBT.