LO has to scream himself to sleep

[Atomic1010]

Thanks. The omeprazole dose is correct for his weight and I am also giving him infacol, so hopefully he is not in pain from the reflux although I can imagine he will still get the uncomfortable sensation of milk coming back up. We have tried ranitidine but it didn't appear to give him enough relief.

I am wondering what the best way of sleep training him may be. I have been trying to do shh pat as part of our bed time wind down but finding this tricky as he sleeps on his back and when he is placed in cot he always wakes. I am worried PUPD might make his reflux worse but I am up every hour at night and last night was pretty bad with only 2 hrs sleep. He does have awful trapped wind which is waking him but he is waking at the end of every 30min sleep cycle and I wonder whether part of the issue is he can't get himself back to sleep independently. Hence I am wondering what sleep training I can do with him.

We had a similar situation with my first son, who had reflux also, and did PUPD at 6 mo after having hourly night waking and being bf to sleep for 2 months and the situation now seems to be history repeating.

If you can offer any suggestions I would be v grateful 

[jessmum46]

I wouldn't use PUPD with reflux, as you say it is likely to aggravate things and there is nothing 'magic' about it that means it will work better than another method - any form of sleep training will work with consistency and the right routine provided LO is not in pain

I would stick with shh pat but from what you've said it sounds like you are doing that in your arms and then trying to put him down asleep?  I would change that up so do a nice wind down routine and then put him in the cot awake rather than asleep.  Then step back and see what happens, if he needs you then use shh pat or a variation of it to calm him and if you want in the beginning, send him all the way to sleep.  The idea is over time you gradually reduce how much you do so you may just shh pat to calm, rather than all the way to sleep.  You don't have to do shh pat as described in the books, you can change it to suit what you and LO like best.  With DD I used to lay a hand across her nappy area and pat her hip on the far side.  Once she chose to be a tummy sleeper I used to pat her back.  With DS however I used to stroke his head and sometimes lay a hand on his tummy, but patting or shhhh annoyed him.  I think when you approach sleep training it can really help to have the mindset of 'being' there while they learn to fall asleep, rather than feeling you necessarily have to be 'doing' anything much.  Some calm reassurance and gentle touch can be enough of a presence so that LO knows they are not alone and can then have the confidence to settle.

Happy to hold your hand when you feel LO is well enough and you are both ready x

[Atomic1010]

Thank you that's very kind. I guess what I am struggling with is Ive started doing a wind down routine after 1.5 hours of awake time and he just starts screaming part way through as if he knows what's coming and is fighting it. I have been trying shh pat in my arms as the one time I tried putting him in his cot he just got upset. But it seems like he gets really upset when he is tired whatever I do 

I will try again this week with the wind down routine, perhaps starting a little earlier and try putting him in his cot awake and finding something gentle I can do to soothe/settle him. I am not feeling optimistic though on my chances and the crying every nap time and at bed time is really starting to get to me.

[jessmum46]

Hugs it can be very draining.  Is your LO 4.5 months or thereabouts now? I was actually going to suggest starting wind down later than 1.5h if so.  Typical A time at 4-5 months will range from 2-2.5h, up to 3h at 6 months for many babies so some of the screaming and crying could actually be LO saying hey, I'm not ready for sleep yet!! With both of mine I have literally taken them to their rooms 5 mins before end of planned A time, into sleeping bag, quick story or song then into bed. If they are appropriately tired they have been much easier to settle and once independent sleepers both have rolled over and been out in 5 mins or less xx

[Atomic1010]

Hi yes he is now just 4.5 months however I think a max A time for him is 2 hrs.  When I take him up for a nap and do his routine I tend to do that after 1.5-2 hr of A time when he starts fussing or I see him yawn and rubbing his eyes. I am sure that the screaming is because he is tired as it comes in waves and in the quieter moments in turns his head into my body and starts to drift off before then starting to cry again after a few seconds.
Anyway after reading your post and thinking about it I decided to go for it yesterday. So I did our usual short wind down of sleeping bag, book and cuddle, placed him in the cot with the white noise on and did a version of shh pat you mention below where I pat his thigh by his nappy and sing very softly. To my surprise it worked after 10 mins of crying.  I did it again at bedtime, which took 40mins as I think he was OT but he kept turning his head to the side and drifting off before crying again so I knew he was close and carried on.  Bedtime last night was 7pm which was amazing as it has never been before 8pm and I expected him to wake after 30mins but he slept until 11.30pm then woke for a feed.

I have just put him down using the same technique and again it took 10mins so I am pleased with the progress we have made, and plan to keep going now in the hope it gets to around 10mins each time and he needs me less to do the shh pat equivalent. However, I do feel really anxious each time ido it that it's going to go badly.

I am only doing this for daytime naps as at night time he suffers a lot from trapped wind and tummy pain so then when he wakes I give him a cuddle and rock, which soon sends him off. Until the tummy situation is settled I am going to continue at night this way as whilst he is unforcomfortable it doesn't seem right to do anything else, and perhaps if the daytime naps are sorted, once the tummy pains are gone the night times will improve naturally with less waking.

We go on holiday this weekend so I am hoping to have a fairly good routine sorted with him by then so he can have daytime naps in his cot while we are away free of any rocking by a tumble drier!!

Thanks again. Hope you think I am doing ok 

[jessmum46]

That sounds great, well done!

Be aware that tiredness signs can become a bit habitual, as in LO looks tired at a certain time because that's what they are used to but isn't necessarily tired enough to settle well or sleep long.  If you are getting good naps and not too much resistance that's fine, but if resistance increases or naps start to shorten (typically to 45-80 minutes) then it may be time just to push past those tiredness signs a little and see if things improve.  Stretching by 5-10 mins at a time and holding for a few days can help LO get used to being awake longer without getting too OT x

[Atomic1010]

Ok thanks I will bare that in mind. Generally LO does two short naps in the morning, a long nap early afternoon and a short nap late afternoon.  The first early morning nap I think should be longer. He always wakes after 30mins and cries. When I get him up he seems tired and struggles to last an hour, I seem to remember there was a technique where you go In 10mins before the end of their sleep cycle and pat them gently on the chest to get them through into the next sleep cycle -is this right? I want to try and see if it's possible to lengthen the first nap so he has a better A time in the morning. I think this would also set him up better for the day as a whole.

Thanks so much again.

[jessmum46]

Yes you can try that   How long is his first A right now?  A 30 minute crying wake up is usually OT but I've found it can be 'built up' OT rather than the A time being wrong on the particular day.  My suggestion would be to shorten the first A as an experiment, a lot of babies prefer a shorter first A, and see what happens.  You may get a longer more settled nap which would set you up better for the day as you've said, or you may get more resistance or another short nap in which case I'd go the other way and lengthen the A time for a few days.  It is all about trial and error but once you get that first one sorted out a bit I found the day much easier to deal with x

[Atomic1010]

His first A is 2 hours and I think he is OT at this point as the second half of the night involves hourly night waking because of his trapped wind. However, I can't put him down sooner in the mornings because of the nursery run for DS1. But will try for a longer nap and see how it goes.

In terms of the sleep training I am doing at the moment, the day naps are going well and he settles within5-10mins but at bedtime it's taking 40 mins roughly each time. I really hate it as he cries and cries albeit here are times when he is almost asleep before he starts up again so it's not solid crying.

I can see he is trying so hard to settle himself, but nonetheless I find it really difficult to listen to without being able to pick him up and give him a cuddle or do anything which seems to help him. I was hoping that tonight it might be shorter as he would be a little more used to what we are doing  . Hopefully tomorrow night will be easier - it makes me feel sad all evening.

[jessmum46]

(((Hugs)))

When you feel up to it maybe you could post a day or two with nap times and lengths, we could perhaps help   I'm thinking if your LO often gets 4 naps that could actually be an issue, getting you towards 3 or potentially two long ones and a catnap could help at BT x

[Atomic1010]

Thanks. Yes will do that when we are back from holiday at the end of next week as I feel that while we are away the naps might not be as they would at home because we will be out and about more.

I think the key is for him to have a long nap as his first nap where possible as a catnap in the car on the way back from nursery isn't enough and he wakes up at home and is tired. This happened this morning and so I gave him 20mins break under his play gym before doing the wind down and taking him up.  After 15 mins of crying in the cot, I picked him up and cuddled him to sleep. Feel bad that I intervened, as I know the book says you shouldn't otherwise you've effectively put them through all of that crying for noting, but he didn't seem to be settling although it was clear he wanted to and he was swallowing lots of air while crying and then spluttering, making the crying worse.

I guess I my mind I thought we would have nailed it by now but I guess there were bound to be little setbacks and at least things are better than they were this time last week.

[jessmum46]

My feeling is there is no 'shouldnt'.  In that situation he was tired and needed to sleep, not the best situation for 'learning' and even the best independent sleepers need help at times x

[Atomic1010]

Thanks for your continued support it is really helping me. After the little step backwards this morning, LO had just gone down in 2 mins so feeling much more positive now. Fingers crossed bedtime is a little easier than previous nights too.

[jessmum46]

That's great well done! It will get easier

[Atomic1010]

Hello. The daytime naps are generally getting a bit easier since I last posted in terms of the time it takes LO to settle, although sometimes he has needed me to intervene and rock him to sleep. The naps could be longer but we will get there with time I expect.

However, the main issue is now is night time sleep, which is getting worse and worse. When he was 3 months old he was waking twice a night which was great. Then he started to develop awful trapped wind in the early hours of the morning which upset his sleep every night.

I was ok with this as I knew he was in pain and we were both getting a good sleep til 4 am. Over the last month and a half the number of times he is waking has been steadily increasing and he is now awake every hour, sometimes every half an hour, which is truly exhausting now. I was putting the additional wake ups down to teething as I can see his first teeth are near to the gum. However, ibuprofen or calpol before bed makes no difference. He is on the correct dose of ranitidine for his reflux so I have come to the conclusions he is now waking out of habit for the best part of the night, wanting me to put him back to sleep. Albeit I think he does still get tummy pain towards the end of the night.

So my question is what should I do in terms of sleep training to get him back to sleep and put of this awful pattern of hourly wake ups? i am on my knees with tiredness and really need to get us both back on track