in need of a hand with a routine plan for 9mo. 2-1? eeek!

[labrodyk]

Thanks so much!! What happens if she does a good AM nap and she won't fall asleep until 4pm...both those scenarios have nap ending at 4.

Today was;

WU: 6.45 (already awake when I woke)
Nap 1: 10.00; 10.05 - 12.10 but again she was resetless and waking constantly in the middle 40 minutes?
^ terrible crying and difficult to keep entertained. Whining and climbing all over me and burying her head in my chest.
Nap 2: 3.38 into the car and didn't fall asleep until I put in cot at home at 3.55; asleep 4.03-4.20 when I woke her? Should I have let her sleep, cut it shorter?
BT: 7.03; asleep by 7.19 but woke unsettled but fell back to sleep by 7.25.

Did I do the right thing tonight?

[Scottishmummy]

It's hard to say what's "right" it's just what work for your baby. What's your gut feeling? Do you think the CN left her OT, UT or just right at BT?

Not sure what the fussing in the middle of her first nap is all about...discomfort? Could you run with it for a few more days and see if she settles as it's overall a good nap.

Am I right that she self settles for sleep?

[labrodyk]

I know, I just don't seem to have any gut instinct what-so-ever. Never have which has made my parenting and sleep journey really tough...

The same thing happened for first nap today except it happened the entire duration after the first 40 minutes.

WU: ?
OOB: 7.00
Nap 1: 9.55; 10.03-10.41. ~11.05 ~11.55.
^^ very restless. Eyes were closed majority of nap but hands playing with comforter tag, rolling around, dropped thumb and seemed asleep then started sucking again.
Nap 2: 3.17; 3.30-4.00
^^ seemed very tired, crying and clingy and wouldn't be put down.
BT: 6.55 into bed; 7.22 asleep but woke a few moments later and did the same as she does during the first nap!!!
NW: woke at 8.00. Difficulty settling again.
^^ terrible mantra crying, rolling around from PD but couldn't settle. I'm going to go with OT but I could be wrong...

So she needs to be in bed at 6.30 for BT at 7.00?
Start second nap after 3hrs and let her sleep?

Very confused... Should I keep going like this?

[Scottishmummy]

Hmmm ...That sounds like she's having trouble getting to extending for first nap and then getting OT the rest of the day as first nap is so broken.

But whether the first nap restlessness is OT or UT is hard to say!  Does she seem tired by 10? If so, my guess would be to try the nap 15 mins earlier and see how it goes, if she seems quite awake by first nap time, maybe try the nap 15 mins later?  I think it's going to be trial and error to work it out but my gut feeling, given her age and that she is waking after 1 sleep cycle..would be to try the nap 15mins later if you think she'd make it to a later am nap. 

If you're aiming for long am/short pm, I'd keep with 2nd nap after 3.5A time and give the 30 mins only and just try to sort out first nap.  If we change too much at once it gets confusing as to what is happening!

At the end of the day, she seems to need 3.5hrs A time sometimes before she goes to sleep. I'd aim for that, so if you get a 4pm end to nap, try for a 7.30 BT (into bed maybe 7.15?)

[Scottishmummy]

Just had another thought..how do you know she is so restless for the middle 40mins of the nap? Are you having to resettle her and sit with her? Or are you watching on a video monitor? If she's not needing you to resettle her, could she just be in a light sleep phase of her nap and the 10.00 start is actually ok?

[labrodyk]

I have a video monitor on her but it seems that she never enters deep sleep again so when I do get her up, she's not very rested and seems tired well before 3.5hrs.

She slept through last night until around 6.40/7.00, not sure but I don't like her crying/screaming at bedtime

Today:
Nap 1: 10.00-12.00 but I'd say most of that time was spent resting rather than sleeping solidy, if that makes sense.
Nap 2: 3.15; cried on put down and shortly after but asleep 3.25-3.55 awake and unhappy but I got her up...
BT: should I be aiming to have her asleep by 7.00?

ETA: went for 6.50 PD into bed; screamed when I put into sleeping bag and into bed and took until 7.15 to fall asleep but at least she didn't cry like last night.

Am I doing something wrong?

[Scottishmummy]

I'm honestly not sure, sorry.

The 2nd nap & possibly BT too sounds OT, which is funny as 3.5hrs A time after a 2hr nap was working quite recently...

So here are some options......

1) If she's going down happily for 10am nap & waking happy but you don't think she's sleeping deeply, my first thing to try would be more activity/play before the nap if possible & see if it's a case of right A time but not enough activity.

If she's getting plenty of playtime pre nap, or that doesn't work, maybe try pushing nap a little later (just by 15mins or so to start) and see if that helps

2) alternatively you could keep the 10am nap and do less A time before 2nd nap (e.g. Back to 3hrs) but my feeling is that you're not happy with how she's sleeping in the morning and want to try to tweak that first.

What do you think?

[Scottishmummy]

Copying from 2-1 chat to have everything together!

Labrodyk...Just Replied to your other thread but if she is struggling since capping pm nap at 30 mins, could you go back to a 40-45min nap then?

Also, if she's falling asleep earlier & really tired at home by 10, maybe she would do better on an earlier first nap e.g. 9.30-10ish  but you might only get a short nap then and need a longer pm nap, probably starting around 1pm,  which clashes with pick up  . You could try it on non-kindy days though and see if better sleep on the 5 days of no pre-school can compensate for more broken sleep on only 2 days?

[labrodyk]

Hi SM! How are you!?

Thanks for copying, I was checking both threads to see if anyone had any tips.

Ok, so today was a BIT of a nightmare and is why i've always been hesitant to cap the first nap. It seems to work ok when we are out and about and naturally the nap is short but when I'm home I'm so nervous of waking her. Mainly due to the fact that I then have to cross my fingers REALLY hard and pray that I get a second nap of any decent length.

She managed not to fall asleep in the car on kindy drop off this morning which was a miracle. I did go to my mum's house which is closer and try to put her down there but she wouldn't have a bar of it and only slept 30 minutes and woke crying after PD at 10am. Unforunately I then only got another barely 40 minutes after a little over 3hr A. BT was then just a complete mess and I ended up sitting in her room patting her mattress until she was asleep (after quite a long cuddle but she wouldn't fall asleep in my arms).

WU: 6.40
Nap 1: 10.00; 10.15-10.45, woke crying. This could have been purely based on not being in her own bed etc.
Nap 2: 1.45; 2.00-2.40 perhaps?
BT: 6.08; screaming hysterically. Tried to listen and respond accordingly and I went and cuddled then sat with her until asleep which didn't take too long.

I thought perhaps if I got an okay nap after a decent nap from 10 I could maybe pull back the second nap to 3hrs A in the hope that she then pulls a short nap anyway so it wouldn't really matter about waking her? If she slept longer then just wake her by 4 and have her in bed at the 3.5hr mark to be asleep by 4hrs A?
Sorry if that's confusing, just feeling my confidence shot a little bit. Today she was SO happy and ate really well but she's like that - totally deceiving. Grumpy when she's seemingly had some sleep but then awake and alert when she hasn't had any. Until it's time for sleep and she loses the plot!

[Scottishmummy]

Oh they do like to confuse us don't they?

It does sound like she's doing better naps on the long am/short pm route & I was going to suggest what you just wrote so

Wu ?
OOB 7
Nap 1 10-(hopefully 12?)
A:3hrs
Nap 2: 3- trial and error on length!
BT: 7/7.30 depending on nap length

That's a bit vague too, isn't it?!

I was thinking about the video monitor thing and I would try not to worry about it too much. If you didn't have it and just put her down for a nap and heard nothing from her until 12, you would assume she had slept a good 2hrs nap. Just go with it I think.

[labrodyk]

Thanks SM!

This morning I screamed and yelled in the car to stop her falling asleep only to have her muck around when I put into cot at home at 10.00. Fell asleep just after but woke at 10.40 so maybe 30 minutes max - rolled around, sat up until 11.20. Given I'll only be able to get 30-40 minutes of I'm lucky in the car this afternoon I might have to do a SEBT tonight
I thought she'd have a great sleep this morning so I could do a car nap for the afternoon sleep but...no. That would be too hard for my miss.

Eta: trying to force her to stay awake in the am in the car is probably not going to work

All her A's today there has not been a HINT of a tired cue. BT tonight (except for he massive black circles under her eyes), looked like she could have stayed up for hours and hours; crawling around, playing.

WU: 6.30 at the latest ?
Oob: 7.00
Nap 1: 10.00; 10.10-10.40ish. OOB 11.20
Nap 2
BT: 6.03; 6.43!!
^ terrible crying/shrieking when I took to room and into bed. Lasted about 30 seconds but took some considerable time to fall asleep. I think she was falling asleep in my arms and woke when I lay her down

[Scottishmummy]

Did she completely refuse a 2nd nap? Sounds like a difficult day & BT    Hope tomorrow goes better xxx

[labrodyk]

Difficult is an understatement but yes, really hoping I can try and stick to our plan tomorrow! For the sleep times you mentioned should they be the times she closes her eyes? BT in particular, depending on nap length, should that be eyes shut at 7/7.30 or into bed at 7, asleep by 7.30? Just a bit confused there.

Oops, erased my own post! No, she didn't refuse the second nap but whether it was 30 or 40 minutes starting at 1.30 PD, asleep 1.40 and then awake 2.30 at the latest (I had a nap and woke up and she was already awake)...

[Scottishmummy]

Probably eyes closed .. How long does she take to go to sleep? My DD only needs a short WD so I put her down at 7.25 for a 7.30 BT but if your DD needs longer to settle then you might need to put her down 15-20 mins before sleep time.

The 7/7.30 is to give a bedtime "window" depending on when her 2nd nap ends.

[labrodyk]

See, I've never known because she takes considerable differences every single night because our days are so different. So ideally, if she had a nap at 10.00-12.00 then 3-3.40 or even 4, if I was aiming for BT at 7.30 she'd need be in bed at 7.10 or even 7.00?

Last night was 40 minutes and that was OT, but not unusual even after a good nap.

Today; what do you think? Especially bedtime?

WU: 6.40
Nap 1: 10.00; 10.10-12.10 with that massive awake section in the middle but tried to ignore it.
Nap 2: 2.35 as we were late getting home. Not asleep until close to 3.50-4.20. Went down and woke crying.
BT: 7.10; 7.40 asleep