in need of a hand with a routine plan for 9mo. 2-1? eeek!

[labrodyk]

Hi ladies!!

I am forever grateful for Becj86 over in EASY Forum for being my sounding board over the last few months but neither of us can seem to get a handle on my daughter A - we've hit 27 pages of me rattling off our days. She is so hit and miss with A times (we've pushed later, scaled back, and tried everything in between) and now seeming to need considerable A to bed in order to self settle without crying! You're more than welcome to read my latest issues here: Predictable Unpredictability - Please help us!

I'm wondering if anyone could arm me with a plan that I can try and stick to and see what she does? Just feeling really lost in regards to her A times and what to do with our evenings where bedtime is starting to get quite late at 8pm. I know that doesn't seem late but our almost 4yo son H is in bed usually between 6.30/7.00pm (even as early as 6) with no day nap. We have kindy drop/off pickup two days a week which are also playing havoc with our EASY too - I have to leave the house at 8.30 and I'm finding that after a bottle on our return trip she'll suck her thumb and fall asleep by 9.30...OR she screams blue murder whenever we go near the car. I then need to leave at 2.30 for pick up (it's a 30 minute trip there, drop/pick up with often a little stay, and return home)

Today was as per the below;

WU: 6.30 chatting - could have been earlier.
OOB: 7.15 (usually 7 but i fell back asleep)
Nap 1: 10.03; 10.08-11.24
Nap 2: 2.40 in the car but didn't fall asleep. Into cot at home 3.03; 3.13 asleep and I woke at 4.15
BT: 7.25; lay awake until 7.55 asleep

She really struggles in the morning with a longer A time but I can try pushing it but I'm lost at where I need to get her to have that second nap, how long it needs to be (well both naps really) and how long until BT in terms of 'into bed' I need to go. The last few nights we've FINALLY stopped the screaming when we go to her room and into bed where she can't settle at all. I don't want to make her overtired but I also would like a little structure to the day and what parameters  I should be working within to help her get the sleep she needs.

thank you SO much.
Laura

[Johnnyha65]

Afraid I can't give you a plan as I need one too, DS2 is 9 months and 3 weeks & DS1 is 4 too, and we can't seem to get it right either! I'm really not sure if some of it's just developmental/regression but I hate the inconsistency we have at the moment. So no advice just some empathy from me 😀

[michaeljacknnugg]

My wee one is 8.5 mo and this is what we are doing, if it's any help:

Wakes 6-6.30, normally around 6.15
Nap 10-11.30 if I'm lucky, 10-10.40 if not
Nap 3-3.40ish....if he falls asleep! Can be as late as 4pm start
Bed around 7 but can be later.

[Scottishmummy]

Is it worth experimenting with a shorter 2nd nap if you get a good first one (by good I mean around 1.5hrs or more)?

If she is tired in the morning, stick with that A time.

At this age I think you have 2 options- experiment with capping first nap and hoping for a long nap early afternoon and longer awake time to bed
OR letting her sleep for am nap and experimenting with how short you need to cap pm nap to get an earlier, easier BT.

I know you've had a long journey with your DD's EASY, so may prefer to stick with long am nap when she's tired as you at least know she's getting a long first nap, uninterrupted by kindy :-)
If an hour's 2nd nap gave you a long day and late BT, could you try cutting it to 45 mins? 

[labrodyk]

Thank you so much everyone, I really appreciate the help.

I've been wanting to cap the second nap but her first is getting shorter so now I feel terrible waking her. She's miserable through her A times, especially in the morning, clinging to me and crying constantly. The second and third A are nowhere near as bad so I don't know what her issue is. I pushed and pushed this morning and the latest I got to was 9.30am and she fell asleep very quickly but was awake from 10.40 dozing.

We had a short nap yesterday afternoon and then a 3.5hr A to bed but she didn't fall asleep for over 30 minutes (7.55pm) and then woke at 6.30.

I think the top tooth is cutting so I am giving pain relief but I'm worried about capping either nap at the moment as she is just so miserable.

[michaeljacknnugg]

Poor love . Our naps go haywire with teeth, too. Hope it's through soon!

[labrodyk]

Thanks, me too! It makes the days so confusing! What would you have done tonight?

WU: 6.30
OOB: 7.00
Nap1: 9.35; 9.40-10.50
Nap 2: 1.55; 2.00-2.40 then fell asleep 2.45-2.48.
BT: 6.00; cried for 20 minutes. I sat patting mattress for another 20 minutes before she finally fell asleep at 6.40!

I'm SO confused about how to play our days - nothing seems to be working

[Scottishmummy]

It's a tough stage I think. My DD is also teething (top front teeth too) & going through some SA and although she has been an IS since 3mo, now needs me to be in the room with her before she'll settle for BT, unless she's absolutely exhausted.  So it's hard yo know whether fighting BT is nap routine related or age and stage.

Those naps look a little UT to me.  It sounds like she's really ready for a morning nap though & wouldn't cope with the A time push to get a longer one. Could you try capping your morning nap at 30 mins? And then still trying for afternoon nap around 3hrs later?

Although that might be tricky on days you have kindy pick up, though.

Not sure if this is helpful as my DD is pushing to 1 nap early, but we have a 2 option routine at the moment. On 2 nap days she is fussing and eye rubbing by 9.30 so we do:

Nap 1 9.30-10 (capped)
Nap 2: 1pm until she wakes or get her up by 3
BT- 4.5hrs after waking from nap

Thinking about it, something like this could work for you if you woke at 2.30 on kindy days and did a 6.30 BT? MyDD has high A times for her age (on 1 nap days she does 5hrs morning A time then one long nap) so needs the 4.5 at end of day, but I think 4hrs would be max last A time for your LO.

[labrodyk]

the only nap which has ever been reasonably consistent was our morning one so i'm REALLY hesitant to cap it! she was doing close to 4hrs with nap at 10am happily but lately she's hysterical through her A times!! I'm on the computer with her asleep in my arms ~ i was cuddling her to calm down and the next minute she was asleep! 3yo woke her by putting lego on her head so only 30 minutes. PD for second nap at 1.30.

kindy just makes life super hard at the moment but we'll get there I guess. If she short naps the afternoon, how long should her A be to BT? Her naps can range from 20 minutes to 1hr20min (her Sleep Cycle is 40mins not 45 so she only does 1hr20min and 2hr naps not 1.5hr and 2hr15min)?

[Scottishmummy]

Yeah that makes sense about wanting to keep first nap as the long one.

It's trial and error how long they need after a 20 min nap. Average at this age would be between 2-3 hrs, I think but you might nee to just experiment and see- some need more, some less

[labrodyk]

Having said that, our days are so mental I'm not sure! Today ended up a day as you described - she's positively miserable which I assume is teeth - but she went to bed without crying and ss.

WU: 6.50
Nap 1: 9.50 -10.20 (my arms)
Nap 2: 1.30-3.30 (cot)
BT: 7.30 PD, asleep by 7.50pm

I have a couple of questions;
1) if I'm not in the car, should I still do 30 minutes in her cot?
2) Do you think the 4hrs for BT should be the time I put down or the time she's asleep by?

[Scottishmummy]

Looks like today was a good day 

My thoughts on your questions

1) It's a CN and therefore the one she will eventually drop so it's up to you if you want to try for it in the cot. Advantage of that is it gives you 30mins for you/your DS but if it's tricky to settle her for the CN, I think it's ok to AP it, but would try to have the long nap in the cot.

2) Typically A time would be time asleep, but if like today she needs the full 4hrs awake and then SS without crying- go for time in bed! I aim for time asleep but my DD settles fairly quickly (on a good night) so we would usually put her to bed at full A time or only 5-10mins before that.

[labrodyk]

Thank you! Will see how we go today

Do you think I should wake her in the morning? Today she's woken at 7.10 but she's crying. Hope the day doesn't go too badly.

eta: we had a home doctor around this evening after our crazy day and thankfully whilst she has a fever, no ear or throat infections present. I'm leaning towards teething but seems odd.
Crying all day with fever and lethargic, diarehea, hot/red cheeks, drooling constantly, wanting to be held & swollen gums. I was just trying to calm her down and offer pain meds and the next second she was asleep in my arms. She was quite restless, woke and cried but I patted her and she dozed off again but not as restorative as a cot nap. Strangely, it was the first 'arms' cuddle sleep I've ever had with her. So scared of making bad habits that I missed it during the newborn stage 

WU: 7.10
Nap1: 9.10-9.15 (car)
Nap 2: 10.00-10.30 (car)
Nap 3: 11.45-12.10 (arms)
Nap 4: 3.15 (car for a few minutes, kept closing eyes but couldn't stay asleep)
Nap 5: 4.00-4.30 (cot)
BT: 7.30; asleep 7.40/45

Will start again when she's feeling better. thank you for helping.

[Scottishmummy]

Poor thing, hope she feels better soon.

Re morning wake up- It's a personal choice. I let mine sleep as long as they want in the morning when possible but both are usually pretty early risers so if they sleep late I think they must need a catch up & just adapt naps to fit. Other people prefer to wake by a certain time for consistency.

[labrodyk]

These have been our last few days and she's still sick. We've started antibiotics and giving pain relief. What do I do when it's too late for a catnap and too early for bed?

Friday
WU: 7.20 (woke her)
** crying and upset in car from 9am.
Nap 1: 9.45-10.15 (car)
Nap 2: 12.40; asleep quickly.   Woke 1.30 resettled. 1.40 resettled. 1.47 awake.
Nap 3: 3.15-3.40 (car)
BT: 6.40; 6.50 asleep by

Saturday
NW: 5.55 crying out.
WU: 7.30
Nap 1: 10.20-10.37
* Crying whilst out. Trying to fall asleep in the car from 1.20 but tried to keep her awake.
Nap 2: 1.50; 1.55-2.35!
BT: 6.15; cried on/off until 7.30! I went in and patted several times until she started playing with my hands. Very OT