in need of a hand with a routine plan for 9mo. 2-1? eeek!

[labrodyk]

Is 10.5 hours ONS long enough? She was awake by 6 this morning? Just seems a long time to keep her entertained given she's upset most of the first A time. I'm not getting her OOB until 7.

She only managed a 1hr20min nap this morning which I thought should have been a little longer given how hard I had to work to keep her awake and happy!?

[Johnnyha65]

Just popped on for some moral support, we only got a 1hr nap yesterday after a very grumpy morning and a 4hr 20 A (WU 5:40) but OOB for 3hr 30, and we only got a 10.5 hr night he's currently bumping round the cot and playing! I think the tiredness in the morning is part of the transition as they are so used to sleeping early.

[labrodyk]

Thank you so much for your support!! I just can't believe she won't nap longer! And this afternoon we were out and she wouldn't sleep in the pram, too wired on the drive home to nap and fell asleep at 4.20 in her cot. Woke her at 4.50. Poor poppet has massive dark circles under her eyes

I guess we just have to hang in there? Only I know that Thursday Friday are our kindy days and we'll be off routine again until the weekend. So hard.

Big hugs to you too, I'm so tired, I can't imagine how the bubs feel!!

So today went like:

WU: 6.10
Nap 1: 10.25; 10.30-11.05 then 11.10-11.53 but a bit unsettled in between (of course, without monitor I wouldn't know...)
Nap 2: She was cranky and tired from 3hrs20 A. Tried to settle in pram (wouldn't), Tried to settle in car (wouldn't). Got home and took 10 minutes in her cot to fall asleep 4.20-4.50
BT: 7.00; 7.23 asleep.

Since starting this routine the last few days Audrey positively screams the house down after her bath and will not go to DH. I was trying to sort out Mr4 (who also won't let DH do anything regarding bedtime...) and I ran into the living room to find Audrey with tears pouring down her face refusing to drink but obviously hungry. I picked her up and she grabbed the bottle and smashed it to empty in minutes. Is this the routine change? OT so only wants Mum? Or SA in spades but only at night. When DH walks through the door she can't get enough of him and then something switches and she goes mental.
I'm feeling really drained and torn.

[labrodyk]

Wednesday
WU: 6.20 awake...
OOB: 7.30. I'm sick and fell back to sleep but she wasn't as grumpy during first A so not sure if she did too...
Nap 1: 10.30; 10-37-12.12. Fell back to sleep briefly but awake properly from 12.15
Nap 2: This was really difficult again and I ended up putting her down around 3.40; asleep 3.55-4.20 when I woke her up.
BT: 6.50;

The exact same thing happened at bath and bedtime routine again with hubby. Even with me when I eventually came and gave her the bottle, if I'm not holding her she starts positively SCREAMING like i'm killing her so I assume she's really tired or is something else going on here? After a 30 minute nap, should PD be at the 2hr mark? Or if she's asleep before 4 should I be letting her sleep as long as she wants? I'm SO confused...

[Scottishmummy]

Hi!

Sorry I've not been in for a couple of days.

Yes there might be some OT by BT after only a short 2nd nap. The first day she started a nap at 10.30, she slept until almost 1pm then managed 4hrs A time and a v short CN to get to BT.
Her typical pattern now though looks like sleeping 10.30-12ish so maybe she needs less A time and a longer 2nd nap? 

I'd try a 2nd nap around 3-3.30pm if you can (or whenever you get home from kindy on those days) for 1 full sleep cycle (I think that's 40-45 mins for her?) and try to keep BT at 7pm.

Re nights- my DD is also only doing around a 10.5hr night on 2nap days at the moment. I know it is within the average range of night sleep for her age, but 11hrs is what she needs I think, but think I might have to accept a shorter night for now as part of this transition process.

[labrodyk]

Don't apologize, I owe you so much for helping me!!

Ok, I'll try a little longer for the 2nd nap and earlier if she does shorter than 2hrs sleep.

BT is so damn tricky and I never know when to actually put her down to have her asleep. She's so unpredictable. Should I just stick with PD at 7.00 after 40 minutes from 3.00/3.30? Or earlier to have asleep by 7.00. How much earlier is the question. Of late it's been anywhere from 20-40 minutes and not necessarily taking longer after a shorter A - she's totally unpredictable but I don't want her OT either.

We were at my mum's today as it's closer to Kindy. She has to be OT because the second half of her nap she was never really asleep again properly.

Wu: 6.00
OOB: 7.00
Nap 1: 10.22; 10.28-11.07, constantly waking and sucking thumb until 11.45 awake completely.
Nap 2: 2.45/50 - 3.30 broken when stopping/starting car
BT: 6.55; screaming and crying from 7.00. Sat and patted mattress 7.12-7.18 when she fell asleep.

AGAIN tonight! Absolutely lost the plot during bath time, won't let hubby feed her or hold her or be near her. She only wants me Which is completely draining as does my 4yo...

I'm going out this weekend and won't be home, I'm starting to freak out! Do I need to adjust her routine? Is this routine related because it wasn't happening before I pushed her!

[Scottishmummy]

Big hugs, you sound very stressed out. It's hard when they're upset and you don't know why.

If you feel she's getting OT, maybe move first nap earlier again? And a 2nd nap around 3hrs after waking from first, in cot if possible?

Sounds like she might have got OT and needs a catch up before pushing it all later again?

Not sure what to suggest re BT, it looked like in cot for 7 to be asleep by 7.30 used to work but if you feel she's OT on any day, you might want to try 6.30-45 to be asleep by 7?

I hope you can enjoy your weekend away. I always worry when I leave my 2 but their dad or grandparents actually cope surprisingly well when I'm not there   

[labrodyk]

I'm sorry, I know I sound like a sleep deprived lunatic

I'm doing the best I can - I have no idea what's wrong with her and I'm just plodding along trying to do what I think is best but always second guessing myself because the same nap time etc yields completely different results day after day.

Today:
WU: 6.30-7.00 somewhere.
Nap 1: 9.45 in car until 10.20
Nap 2: 12.50; asleep 1.10 woke at 2.30
BT: 6.00. Screamed when I left the room but asleep by 6.30.

Hubby wasn't home so she happily drank her bottle from me but some major SA kicks in around 5pm for some odd reason when she's not phased at all. We went to a play center and she disappeared (I was out of her view, but I could see her!) for ages. Well over 1/2 an hour playing with other children.

[Scottishmummy]

No need to apologise, I get stressed too when naps don't work out & routine is off and I don't know what I'm doing

Looks like EBT was a good call tonight, hope you get a long night

Not sure about the 5pm SA..worse due to hunger? Tiredness? Or just "witching hour"?

Hope you have a relaxing wkend away
Xxx

[labrodyk]

Hello SM! I hope your family is feeling better and your mum is helping out a bit

These are our last few days...she's still funny in the evenings with hubby after dinner and bath. Early bedtimes are still bringing the same wakeup of 6am or earlier but I'm having difficulty with the timing and duration of the second nap. We haven't been consistent with timings because SHE is so inconsistent. She fights car naps now too which is making things SUPER hard.

Saturday
WU: 6.00
OOB: 7.00
Nap 1: 10.30-12.20
Nap 2: 3.40; not asleep until 4.30-4.45.
BT: 7.00; asleep 7.15 DH says but he didn't check monitor so could have been later

Sunday
WU: 6.00
OOB: 7.00
Nap 1: 10.30; 10.35-12.00
Nap 2: 3.20; asleep 3.40-4.20
BT: 7.20; not asleep until 8!

Monday
WU: 6.15
OOB: 7.00
Nap 1: 10.35; 10.40-12.07; dozed until OOB at 12.20
Nap 2:
 --> attempt 1: into car at 3.40-4.00. no sleep
 --> attempt 2: cot at 4.00; asleep 4.20-4.40
BT: 7.00; asleep 7.30

Tuesday
WU: 5.55! 
Nap 1: 10.30; 10.35-

I don't know if there's anything to improve on or a way to get her to sleep longer than 10.5hrs but we'll keep winging it. We're definitely in 2-1...I HATE this transition almost as much as 1-0. lol

[lolsyb1982]

Yes you're definitely in the 2-1! I found the 2-1 harder than the 1-0 with dd1!

It looks like she needs around 4hrs after her first nap so the times when you've tried to get her down earlier she's fighting it. You might find a car nap easy if you do it that bit later.

I think 10.5hrs ons is pretty common when going through a transition so would keep going as you are for now and if it drops to less than that then some tweaking may need to be done.

[labrodyk]

Thank you! It truly is a terrible transition, I hate it.

Unfortunately, I'm not having much luck with car naps because I'm not in the car that late in the day Mr 4 eats at 5 so I lose my cooking time although I have been trying to do this earlier in the day but things are getting crazy busy now we're able to get out a little more.

So our day ended up as the below and I'm not sure how to approach the 2nd nap and bedtime - how long and how late. She was very grumpy when out once we reached the 3.5hr mark but struggled to fall asleep although it seems she really wanted to

Tuesday
WU: 5.55! 
Nap 1: 10.30; 10.35-12.35
Nap 2:
--> in car from 4.00-4.20, no sleep.
--> in cot from 4.20; asleep 4.30 but I woke at 4.50
She won't go to DH anytime from after dinner, lol. She wants to be attached to me... She was rubbing eyes from 5.30pm and through bath then after bottle she still wouldn't leave me and cried if I moved even a little bit!
BT: 7.00; rolling around and chatting but asleep 7.25pm.

[lolsyb1982]

Yes it's a tricky time of the day isn't it.

I would say after a 20 min nap she would need about 3hr A to bed so it depends what time you would like her BT to be as to when the nap should finish.

[labrodyk]

Makes it trickier when the 4yo still falls asleep without fail by 4pm and then I have a sleeping preschooler and a wide awake baby! 

At present A's second nap doesn't even START until after 4/4.30 which is past the 3hr A for a 7pm bedtime (asleep by 7.30). Hmmm, so hard to know what to do.

[lolsyb1982]

Yes I know all too well about the toddler falling asleep (and then awake until 9pm)

How do you think she would handle a 10min nap at 4.30 and then bed at 7?