anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch?

[x95stocchier]

The 20 min AM nap is working wonders here.    30 min helped us sort things out a bit, but now that we are on 20 mins, he's taking beautiful PM naps....2 hrs the past few days, adn I can count on one hand the # of time she's had 2 hr naps in his life! LOVE IT!  Thanks for all yoru advice!

[Zaiby]

alright - so I'll try the pushing the nap -
So should I just move 15 min every few days until we're at 12:30..
And this is even if he wakes at 6? so 6.5 A time?  This won't cause overtiredness? or short nap?
Or like you said the main concern is from nap to bedtime...

So if he wakes at 5ish - keep the catnap, an if after push the nap to 12:30?

Thanks and sorry to bother you all again!
I thought we were going in the right direction for awhile - well for  1 week anyway...and then we started going back to where we began...

Zaibun

[debo620]

Zaibun,

on this whole overtired by bedtime thing,
I have been thinking today that--
Noah's old routine used to have him up from his 2nd nap like 3.5hrs before bed----because he had 4hrs between naps-so really I can't expect him to all of a sudden handle 5.5hrs til bed-even on a 2hr nap.
the great thing is that is that as I shorten the am nap and move the 2nd nap earlier---he sort of has time to adjust to the longer wake till bed. so it started at 4hr awake til bed, 4.5, 4.75, eventually 5 and then 5.5hrs.
today we did 20min am nap 9:30-9:50 in car
2nd nap--was in crib for 12:15 and asleep by 12:30 and I woke him at 2:20---we were going out and again I'm trying to stick with 2hr nap total.
tommorow-- we are going to go with 15min am nap and hopefully have him in crib and asleep by 12-2pm. or so. and then for a few days I think I will stick with make sure he is up by 2pm ish and bed by 6:40-asleep by 7

so are you aiming fo 7:30-6:30--so that a 12:30 nap would fall in th middle of the theoretical day? or is 6am wake-up is more realistic? at which point asleep by 7 would be good---because then really 12pm would be a good nap time. I do think that 6.5hrs is too long before nap.

[KellyC]

Zaibun

Personally I wouldn't adjust the nap times at all (unless he shows signs of needing to go down a little earlier but I'd still aim for the same times), even if he's up early.  Is he still happy to stay in his cot relaxing until wake up time?  It's easy to under-estimate the difference that can make as they're still getting good rest.

I wouldn't try and second guess whether he needs the catnap either and I'd let him decide - put him down some time between 9am and 9.30am (depending how tired he seems) and leave him in his cot for 30 minutes then get him up.  Don't worry about how long he has or hasn't been asleep as you've given him the opportunity if he needs it and if he doesn't then at least he's had more rest.

I'd keep the pm nap at 12.30 unless he hasn't taken a catnap and you think over-tiredness is a possibility.  If this is the case perhaps aim for sleep at 12.  In both cases I'd aim to keep him in his cot for 2 hours no matter when he wakes, if he'll tolerate that.

When you get to the stage when he's persistently refusing a catnap and is sleeping well at 12 then start moving the nap on.  I'd take it slowly - maybe 10 minutes every week or something like that.

That's great news Sarah

Kelly x

[M and N's Mom]

In both cases I'd aim to keep him in his cot for 2 hours no matter when he wakes, if he'll tolerate that.

What do you do with a Spirited lo who cries to get up the minute he wakes?  My DS will wake and play A LITTLE first thing in the morning, but never at nap time.  He mantra cries until he falls asleep (i.e. not playing) and cries as soon as he wakes up to get up.

[KellyC]

I have to say Zander was the same until a few months ago so I know exactly what you mean and that it's not always an easy thing to do!  When we first switched to one nap I'd do wi/wo until the end of the nap time and once that had worked I usually had to wake him after 2 hours so it wasn't an issue.

K x

[Dannys_mummy]

Hi Everyone,

I'm a newbie to this website, although the Baby Whisperer books have been my bibles for the last year  It looks such a great site, and I would really really appreciate it if someone could was read about the situation that me and my little-un are in and give us advice?  We are in a bit of a mess at the minute

Danny has had a rough few weeks: he had a nasty stomach bug for 2 weeks which knocked him for 6 and his routine went out of the window.  He then started nursery 2 days a week, and (probably as a direct result, cue guilt-ridden mum) has showed signs of separation anxiety for the first time.  He is also teething, 7/8th teeth are bumps on bottom gums and has hands jammed in mouth constantly, is always wet through with dribble (nice!) although haven't as yet cut.  He is 1 week shy of 12 months old.

Old routine:

7am wake followed by brekkie
10am 1st nap (1.5 hours)
12 noon lunch
2pm 2nd nap (1 hour)
5pm tea
7pm bed

He was starting to show signs of wanting to drop his 2nd nap - 1st nap was getting later and later, and 2nd nap was getting shorter.  He also started fighting the 2nd nap after ages of going down for all sleeps pretty happily.

He started nursery 2 weeks ago, and at nursery he will only go down for 1 nap at 12 noon, and will only stay asleep for 40 mins.  They say they try to get him down at 10am and 2pm but he won't go, and I am loathed to press them to try to continue for 2 naps in case they do controlled crying and make things worse.
On his days at home I do the routine shown below now, as he has baulks at a morning sleep at home too since starting nursery so will only go down for 1 sleep at 12 noon, and wakes after 1 hour.

New routine:
7am wake and brekkie
11:15 lunch
12noon (or before) Nap, 1 hour (40 mins if at nursery)
4pm tea
6:30 bed

He has started night waking last week, once per night at different times.  Hadn't done that for months.

My question is this...I was planning to try to keep up the 1 nap, thinking that after so much upset and loss of routine it would be best to get a routine going every day.  He is tired in the afternoon but manages the time in the morning pretty well most days.  Do you think this is a good idea or should I try to get him back on his old routine?

Also, any ideas how to lengthen his nap over one hour?  In PD the best way or is that only for when he wakes at the end of a sleep cycle?

Sorry my post is so long, I feel so sorry for my poor little mite and am taking it hard as I am sure that if I wasn't back to work for 2 days and using a nursery things would be very different. 
Thanks

x

[x95stocchier]

M&N-we also have a crying wake up (in morning and naps) He's not keen to stay & play himself.  The only thing that has worked somewhat for us is in the mornings I wait a bit before nursing....I try not to feed him before 7, even if he wakes at 6:15 or 6:30, that way he is not starving and expecting to eat right when he wakes. (doesn't help on naps, though) It was suggested to me here....and it worked for a bit, but with illness, and some schedule disrupts, we're back at square 1 on that, but it might be worth a try if your lo gets milk or bfast immed upon waking.   Good luck!

[KellyC]

Dannys Mummy - {{hugs}} to you.  Zander also started nursery just before he was 12 months old and it was tough but he absolutely loves it now and sleeps just as well there as he does at home!!  Are they putting him down at 12 because that's when everybody goes down?  Are they able to try 15 minutes earlier or is it a fixed time?  A little earlier may help with the 40 minute waking but if it's not possible then don't fret.  I think shorter naps are to be expected for alot of LOs at nursery because it's such a different environment.  It's noisier, with other LOs crying etc., possibly lighter than his room at home and it's all just 'different'.  Zander's sleep improved immensely at nursery when I took in his sleeping bag, bedtime story and sound machine from home.  Is there anything you can send in for your LO along those lines?

As for the other days, a 1 hour nap is probably a sign of over-tiredness.  If you think he's happy enough during the morning and would refuse a short morning nap then perhaps try for 11.45 and see if that makes any difference.  You could also try w2s if he's still consistently waking after 1 hour.

Kelly x

[M and N's Mom]

Sarah - In the morning DH gets him up and dressed and "hangs out" with him for a bit before I bf him.  After naps he doesn't get anything immediately upon waking.  He has just got so much energy he wants to go-go-go and laying in the crib isn't exciting enough...lol 

I have been reading this thread more for info as I know we are heading in this direction.  Well, today was the first day DS had a 1h morning nap and refused his afternoon nap.  DH got him to have a catnap in the car at 4:30 so we'll see what tomorrow brings but I might be trying the short am nap soon too.  I am headed back to work every morning starting this Wednesday just to add to the confusion (but my mom is looking after the kids and will try to do what I recommend I think).

[Zaiby]

HI!

Deb- Ideally I would like a 7 wake (well, really 7:30 or 8, as I am so not a morning person) but realistically 6;30/7 at this point sounds great to me...so then nap at 12:30...

So yesterday (I feel like we are literally back to the beginning) he had 1hr 45 min nap starting at 12:25 - was up at 1:55.
He had woken at 7 after a horrible nw of 2.5hrs that we haven't had in months!
 asleep by 6:45 - he woke at 5:30 - so that is almost 11hrs - which for him is good

he's asleep now at 9:30 - will wake at 9:50 and nap at 12:30 again..
And shoot for bedtime of 6:45...

Kelly, hes' ok in the crib in the morning for about 45min/1hr and then he starts fussing...like today we got him out at 6:30 (awake 5:30) as he started to yell and cry..
And I do try and leave him at nap time for 2hrs (if he wakes early) - but he's grumpy usually 'cause I know he hasn't had enough sleep...and he won't go back to sleep...

Sigh - can you tell Zander to tell Riyan that sleep is actually quite nice ??

Cheers,
Zaibun

[KellyC]

Zander is here and he says to tell Riyan about all the fast cars he can dream of in his sleep (Zander rolled over and said car in his sleep this week  ).  Zaibun, believe me, we've had our share of stressing over sleep over the past year and a half too - ask Stacy!  I'm sure it'll all fall into place for you too once he's used to a new one nap routine.  Zander will probably fall off the wagon when the baby arrives in June anyway!

K x

[Zaiby]

Well, I'll pass on Zander's message...

I know all kids have their sleep issues - and we have to deal with them - man why can't they just get it???lol!

I'll keep you posted!

Zaibun

[Zaiby]

ok - so after 20 min in the am he slept 1hr 20 in the pm - he's still in his crib - and I'll leave him for the 2hrs -

So do you think overtired? not tired enough?

He didn't seem to want to sleep at 12:20 was crying and standing up until I patted himdown to sleep....at 12:40..
Oh well.  Bedtime just before 7, right?

Cheers,
Zaibun

[jennyb133]

Ok, so we we're going to try the short AM nap & try to get a longer PM nap. Well, for a kid who loves his AM nap- it just didn't happen this weekend!!

I was working Sat. DH tried to put him down for his cat-nap at 9.(he got up at 6:30am) He wouldn't sleep, kept fussing, he tried at 10 and again a no-go.  So he said he finally got him to sleep 11:30-1:30. But hey, that's great right? I mean he didn't take his AM cat-nap, but he took a longer nap & then he went to bed at 6:30pm.

On Sun., again refused the cat-nap went down at 11:30. But this time only slept till 12:30. So only 1hr. & of course would not take a PM cat-nap. So bedtime at 6pm. (Oh, & had some night wakings).

Today- He woke extra early 5:30am we left him to play in his crib finally got him up at 6:30. He went down for a cat-nap today at 8:45 (but oops, mommy messed up- since I have a sinus infection & so sick myself I went to bed too & didn't get up till 10 when I heard him on the monitor!)  So I guess I messed things up by letting him sleep too long this morning. Tried putting him down for PM nap at 1pm. He was quiet for a little while ,but is now fussing. I changed his diaper 20mins. ago & tried to get him settled again. Doing wi/wo. But it's 2:30now & he's not sleeping!!!