PU/PD and WTS not working for 4.5 month old's naps

[laurencopenhaver]

I did post on the eating board a few weeks ago and no one has responded.

Ok, so this is what he's like:  it all depends on when he eats in the middle of the night.  If it 3 or later he won't eat much when he wakes.  But today he ate at midnight, and 6 AM.  Then woke at 7, and I put him down at 9:30 and he still wasn't hungry.  Lately, he hasn't asked for food.  The other day he went 6 hours and I finally made him eat.  I read in one of my books that if you wait too long to start solids, baby will have a hard time accepting them.

On a good day, say he take in 5-6 oz at each feeding, so say 25-30 oz a day; he still isn't sleeping through until 6 or 7.  I'm not giving the df anymore, so that might be why.  But even if he wakes during the df time, 10 or 11 he's usually up to feed again by 4 or 5.  Is this normal?

Do you still think I should wait on the solids?  I'm just worried about what I read about not accepting solids too late.

I also read that they go through a huge growth spurt around 6 months.  I don't think he's hit that yet.  Do you think that will make his appetite pick up?  Cause by the way he's going, I'm afraid he'll always be satisfied w/ just formula.

Plus, if he's not hungry 2 hours after his first bottle, how am I supposed to give cereal?  Is this just a sign that he doesn't need it yet?  When he IS hungry 2 hours after his AM bottle, that's when he's ready?  Does this coincide w/ the 6 month growth spurt?

[KathrynK]

hi there
I had a look back through all the posts on the solids board back to the beginning of October and couldn't see yours there- have you deleted it? The general advice is to wait until 6 months before introducing solids, just as Stacy said, unless you are advised otherwise by your doctor. If you are concerned about his milk intake, suggest you post your queries on the bottle feeding board to get some thoughts and advice from the ladies there.

[binxyboo]

Had a look through your topics and couldn't see any that you had placed on the solid foods board. You should definitely post your feeding questions there, people are not likely to see it buried in here.

[shimzy]

lauren - could be heading into the 6 mth growth spurt?

[laurencopenhaver]

What do you mean weening the night feed.  I have to feed him when he's hungry.  When he wakes around 10-12 he takes 7 oz and again anywhere from 4-7 AM.  How do I ween him from this feeding if he's hungry?  This morning he ate 7 oz at 6 AM then didn't eat again until 11:30, and he only took 5 oz.  If I try to make him eat every 4 hours, he'll only take a couple oz then isn't getting much throughout the day b/c he piece eats.

[shimzy]

He is taking the bulk of his formula in the middle of the night between 10pm and 6am. 21oz is what I counted is that right?

The way you wean, can be done in a couple different ways.

1 - You can take away an oz from each bottle and add them to day time bottles. He will take more during the day if you take it away at night. Its a slow process but it works.

2 - You can dilute the bottles 1/4 at a time, same idea as above but in a different manner. I dont condone this type of weaning but some say it has worked for them.

[samijoe]

Lauren,

Wow, boy oh boy!  That was a long 15 pages.....but you've made it!  Good job Stacy and good job Lauren!!  Hang in there...you are doing well!  I almost cried to see that you are adding A time....boy have things changed!

I think i agree with Stacy on the feeding....try to up those ounces during the day!  The less you can feed him at night, the more he will take during the day!  Getting lots of ounces in during the day really helps to lessen night wakings. 

At almost 6mths old, he should be just fine with the df.  Good luck ditching the second night feed! 

sami

[laurencopenhaver]

Yeah, adding the awake time is really what he needed.  I should have done it sooner.  I never knew what tired looked like b/c I never let him stay up longer than 1 hr 45 min.  Now I know what tired looks like and when it's time to put to bed.  His first A today was 2.5 hrs. and he slept 1.5 hrs straight.  The second was 2 hrs 15 min and I helped him back to sleep and he slept for 1 hr. 40 min. 

The eating too much at night makes sense.  If he wakes b/t 3-5 I usually give him a dilluted bottle but full 5-6 oz.  If he wakes then I'll drop it down to 3 or 4 oz.  He usually falls asleep eating but eats the whole thing.  So I don't think he'll throw a huge fit if it's a smaller feed. 

He's NEVER been food driven.  My mom said that's exactly like I was.  I've notice the past couple nights that he'll eat at 3 or 4 then by 6 or so he'll take another full 6 oz feed.  Is he confused and thinking night time is the time you're supposed to eat more and/or that's when he's hungriest is b/c I've been feeding him that much at night?  It makes sense now, but I never would have thought of that myslef.  When's the cutoff to where I give him a full feed?  Like last night he had his first feed at midnight, then I held him off until 6 and gave him a full feed.  If he's starving at 5 or 5:30 what do I do?  When's the cutoff?

Thanks for all the support.  All you say makes so much sense, I just wouldn't be thinking of it myslef.

And the holding off on solids makes sense too.  But maybe when I get the day for night feeding turned around, he'll eat better, along w/ his 6 month growth spurt.  At night he'll take 7 or 8 oz. each feeding and he'll never take that much during the day; 6 at most.  Usually 4 or 5.  So I agree that he's getting too many calories at night.  Everything just makes so much sense now, why didn't I think of that?

[Zoey]

Hiya Lauren! 

Wow, seems suddenly you have a flurry of replies from a whole bunch of people!  Its nice to hear different views huh!  I thought I'd throw mine in the pot too! 

Naturally all anyone can do is give their opinion based off of what is rec and/or what has worked for them.  The recomendation is as Stacy says, not to start solids until 6m plus.  Doing so before then is a personal choice but since there are downfalls to begining early (immature gut, taking less formula possibly making naps and nightwakings worse) it's also my opinion to wait.  Obviously there are exceptions to every "rule" but if baby isn't wolfing 8oz at each bottle and still showing hunger signs, it wouldn't seem like he is the exception in my opinion. 

I also agree with Stacy about the night feedings.  I always gave as much as my chunky monkey would take at each daytime feeding, sometimes I topped him off 30m after his feeding to encourage his tummy to take more at each Day feeding.  Even at 8m I STILL didn't have a evening "meal" of solids because this made Owen take less formula and he'd wake hungry at night at 3am - I had to feed him, then he wouldn't eat well at 7am!  I stopped this, he took more formula in the evenings and stopped waking up at night again.  Solids most often do not help sleep issues unless baby is showing a clear need for something more after an adequate amount of formula.

Perhaps you didn't 'think' of it yourself because your right in the middle of it (atleast that how it is for me lol) Stacy and others can see from a distance, sometimes things are clearer when you can look from afar.  Plus your thinking about a bunch of different things for him at once lol.  Great work with your A time by the way!!

I wanted to comment on one more thing.  The give and take between you and Stacy in this thread has been incredible.  She knows her stuff (not to say that others don't, but she has been the main one here helping you each day) - she is the one that helped me with Owen at 4m with paci HELL and feeding and Easy and NAPS, and STILL helps me today with Owen at 11m.  There is a deep dedication here, from you to your son and to making this work, and from Stacy to help you through thick and thin.  It makes me warm and fuzzy!   Mommies helping Mommies, its so beautiful.  Bravo to you both (I wish there was a clapping smiley lol)

Zoey

[Diegos Mama]

Hi there Lauren,

WOW, this is one long thread.  I see you're making progress with your sleep issues. Kudos to all that have helped you along the way and for their stick-to-it-ness.  I'm sure you realize the immense amount of help you've received from Stacy and the others - huge gratitude their way. 

Normally we split posts that go off the topic at hand.  Any feeding conversations that happen should go on the solids or bottlefeeding boards, depending on which is most appropriate.  I can either split this topic essentially moving the feeding info, or you can begin new threads on those forums.

I also encourage you to begin new threads with issues that arise as this one is long and chances folks won't read through it from beginning to end.  You'll have a better variety of input on a new thread, and this will benefit others who may be experiencing similar issues to yours. 

Thanks and best wishes for continued success.

[binxyboo]

I for one encourage you to post on the appropriate boards. The great thing about this website is that everyone really benefits from other people's experiences.

[laurencopenhaver]

Okay, I'll post again since this one is so long.  Couple questions though, what do I call it, and how do I pm Stacy?

Bedtime was 6:45 b/c he was exhausted and took an early catnap in the car instead of waiting till we got home.  He woke from that at 4:30 so I couldn't keep him up longer.  Anyway to make a long story short, he woke for the first time at 1:45.  I gave him a full 7 oz feed.  He didn't wake again until 6 But I kept him in his crib until 6:45.  Fed him 8 oz!!! at 7.  Should I cut the first feed down too if I know he won't be eating again until morning.  Or is that still considered the df?

[Zoey]

You can PM Stacy by clicking her name and then clicking "send this person a private message"

I believe they basically would like you to post feeding issues in the "soild foods" section, bottle feeding issues in the "bottle feeding" section, nap issues in the "naps" section and so on and so forth.

You can call your post whatever you wish in regards to what your problem is.  I'm sure Stacy would be fine with you posting here still about your naps and sleep if you wish since all your history is here, and she is the one helping you.   However, knowing how dedicated Stacy is to you, she will help you regardless of what the forum title may be and where you choose to place your post.

Good Luck hun your making fab progress. 
Zoey

[laurencopenhaver]

Thanks, I posted in the eating, starting solids section, but is it alright if I just keep this post about the naps here?

[KathrynK]

hi Lauren

by all means keep posting with queries you have about your lo's naps. However I think you would find it more helpful to actually start a new post on the Naps board rather than continue with this one. Members tend to avoid reading threads that are already quite long and as this one is 16 pages I think you would get more feedback and advice if you were to start afresh with any further queries you have.
have a merry christmas
kathryn