PU/PD and WTS not working for 4.5 month old's naps

[binxyboo]

I am going to pop my head in here again!

From other things that I have read, naps really are a developmental thing. First regular morning nap only begins to develop at 3-4 months, the pm nap later on. This happens after the night sleep begins to improve, ie going to bed earlier in the evening, sleeping longer stretches etc. If you child is fussy, colicky etc then it takes longer. I think it's great that you are being consistent about the way you approach sleep and getting his little routine down, but I think if it's a developmental thing that their brains need to mature biologically to allow them to nap, then you really cannot do any more than you are doing. You obviously value and recognise the benefit of having a well rested child, you are presenting him with the opportunity to sleep, it is really down to him what happens from there.

From my experience, Riley's naps really didn't come together until he was about 6 months. The morning nap way always the easiest for us as well.

[laurencopenhaver]

So that's what I'll do I guess, starting tomorrow.  He's just so happy all the time, especially when he wakes, it's starting to feel like I'm spoiling it by making him go back to sleep, or at least trying.  I have noticed at times when he wakes crying that it's fairly easy for me to put him back to sleep.  So maybe those are the times he needs more rest.

You HAVE said to follow HIM and I've gotten so caught up in what Tracy says he SHOULD do, it's been hard for me to enjoy him b/c I get sick to my stomach worrying that his needs aren't being met.  But I guess if he's happy and thriving, he's okay.

[Missy Lou]

sorry - been at work, etc. all day. 

i wish i could think of something else but it sounds like stacy has really helped a lot.  i remember my LO had 45/60 minute  naps until about 6 months.  i had a hard time extending them although mine didn't wake up as happy as yours does.  but like stacy said, some things you can't change.  my LO takes a really long a.m. nap and a short p.m. nap.  i can't extend the p.m. nap even if i cut the a.m. nap short; it's always an hour no matter what. 

melissa

[laurencopenhaver]

Melissa-Did you baby just all of a sudden around 6 months start taking longer naps, or did you struggle trying to work with her and 6 months was where it happened?  I'm going to continue to work at it if I think he needs it, I'm not giving up on it completely.

[laurencopenhaver]

Stacy-Bedtime was 7:30; he last ate at 5 and woke at 10:30 and ate 6 oz.  Then he woke at 4:30 and ate 7 oz.  Then he woke at 5:25, talked to himself for about 15 min then dozed back off.  Then he woke at 6:05, at 6:15 he ate another 5 oz. and I got him to sleep from about 6:40-7:00.  So basically he was up from 5:25-5:40 (15 min.), 6:05-6:40 (35 min).  So how much awake time does that count for and when do you think he'd be ready to nap.  B/c even though he woke for good at 7 he had some awake time in there so I'm sure he'll be ready for sleep before 8:45.  Any ideas?  I'm going to take him upstairs around 8 and kind of watch to see if I see any tired cues.

[laurencopenhaver]

Previous post too...

I've decided I don't want him swaddled anymore.  Oh my goodness, I can't take much more.  I put him down, and his arm went flying everywhere, whacking himslef in the face, pulling out his paci, it was a mess.  By 20 min of this he was rubbing his eyes and trying to pull his ear off.  By 45 min his eyelids were so red he could barely open his eyes while crying.  Finally after 1 hr 15 min I had to hold his arm down and he cried himself to sleep.  What am I supposed to do?!!!  I can't do this every time.  (Yeah, I know he's really overtired now and will be for the rest of the day)  But this was insane.  Please tell me he'll get used to this!!!  But in the meantime, what on God's earth am I supposed to do!  I cried along w/ him for a half hour.  Do I just let him whack himself in the head, do I hold his arm down?  he was fine w/ the paci in, he would close his eyes, but then he would take it out, want it back, try to put it back, all failed?  We're both a mess now.  How long are we going to have to go through this?  We're already battling sleep issues.

[laurencopenhaver]

How do I know if he's ready to be weened or not.  Obviously if it took 1 hr. 15 min to get him to sleep somethings up.  He slept for 45 min after he fell asleep and he's now awake but just laying there silent.  How long do I try this for to know if he's ready or not.?

[laurencopenhaver]

Try no swaddle at all, just lay him there?  A blanket?

[laurencopenhaver]

Have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.  I want to unswaddle, is this a swaddle blanket?  I have those.

Anyway, I've been in his room since 8:00 this morning.  If this doesn't get better soon I'm really gonna quit altogether.  I can't handle this anymore.  After 1 hr 15 min of putting him to sleep, 45 min later he woke and laid there for 30 min so I just left him there.  Tried for 30 min to put back to sleep and wasn't, plus was happy so I brought him down.  Of course as soon as I got downstairs he was rubbing eyes and pulling at his ear so of course I went back upstairs.  Tried again for 45 min to put back to sleep w/ one arm unswaddled and finally fell asleep and woke 10 min later and was hungry.  So know I'm sure he's beyond the point of ever going to sleep again for the next 5 years.  What do I do?!!!!  Being in his room for 6 hours is more than I can handle, but I have to take care of him.  Maybe this short nap thing IS the problem.  But I've tried all I can do I'm running out of options.

[Zoey]

Gro-bag/sleep sac:  http://www.amazon.com/HALO-SleepSack-Wearable-Blanket-Micro-Fleece/dp/customer-reviews/B00009IM3H

I am sorry you are having a hard time.  Sometimes its good to take a break for a bit and come back at things refreshed.  Let baby sleep when showing cues, wake when he wants - put the feeds every 4 hours and make notes of everything else to see if there is a pattern.  Of course that's my opinion.  Other then that, do you have another plan in mind? 

Did he ever nap well?  Have you recently changed anything, like where his crib is in the rooms, or something like this?  Is the room really dark, like realllllly dark?  Sorry I've skimmed the 12 pages but I haven't read through each one.

This is so very hard.  I feel your frustration, and I have a big hug for you.  I know hugs aren't going to help him sleep.  This is such a rough age for sleep, with growth spurts, developmental things, and the organization of sleep in their brain.

Anyhow, just wanted to give you some support and hugs, unsoliticed advice 

Love,
Zoey

[laurencopenhaver]

Thanks Zoey-
First of all he's never napped 2 hrs on his own.  For the past 3 months naps have been 45 min left by himself.  I'm lucky if I can extend 1 a day.  Nothing has changed.  I just bought darkening shades to make his room darker.  I think that will help.
I've made note of everything before and it didn't help.  B/c I do the exact same thing and one day is like night and day different from the next.  There was no consistency w/ him what-so-ever.  The only consistency was me doing the same thing, just experimenting w/ different awake times and such.  Thanks for the support.

This time I put him down I think God heard me crying before and my miracle he went to sleep in 10!!! minutes.  Must have been a mistake.  We'll see how the next nap goes.  (I'm talking about w/ the half swaddle)  He always went down well for naps, just won't stay asleep.

Hopefully tomorrow is a better day b/c it's only 3:30 and this is already the 4th time I've put him down for a nap.  Needless to say he's barely had any awake time b/c the sleep thing hasn't happened today.  But tomorrow's a new day.  And I told him no matter what happens his mommy loves him and he's the most perfect thing in the world. 

Thanks for chiming in though, any suggestions?

[Zoey]

I admire your perserverence honestly.  I know a good friend of mine that was in her sons room day in an day out to get naps and I don't know how you guys do that.  I am envious.

About the dark room.  We had just darkening curtains, that didn't seem like enough so I put tin foil all over the windows (4 yes 4 floor to ceiling windows in his room lol) AND closed the curtains.  It was like a cave day and night - it was great.  He started to sleep but I think that was a combination of taking the paci, swaddle, getting on easy, dark room, white noise and using pat/shh and pupd to teach sleep.  BUT why am I telling you this - because, a few months later at hmm.. 6m - I tried to slowly remove said tin foil allowing the room to be brighter and he started short napping - I put it all back and it stopped.  Co-incedence?  Perhaps but my son is 11m old now and I have no plans to remove it anytime soon LOL.  So, I'm not saying making the room super dark and going to solve everything, but it can't hurt. 

Also, white noise.  I can't sleep without a fan on high facing the wall.  I do the same for Owen - I think that helps too - having a constant sound that muffles house noises so when/if they DO wake at the 30, 45m mark they aren't disturbed by any noises that may be happening.  Some people have babies that could sleep through anything - mine is touchy and the more white noise in his room the better lol.

I am sure you are doing these things, but I thought I'd toss am out there anyhow.  I read some of your posts saying he is happy most often after a 45m nap.  There was a month or so that all I had were 4 or 5, 45m naps lol.  I just went with it because I tried TONS of things and nothing seemed to help.  I failed miserably at w2s.  I think it has to do with developmental stuff really.  So, I knew he couldn't do a full A time, so I put him down earlier and he slept for 45m woke happy and we went on doing that til bedtime.  Then a few times his first nap started getting longer, so I made his second A time the normal length and that nap was longer - this happened more and more frequently and then we were out of that trap and back to a 'normal' routine again.

Anyhow, I guess I have no REAL advice, but I wanted you to know I think you're doing an excellent job.  Yes, tomorrow IS a new day, and he is perfect, and you are a wonderful Mummy.   If I think of anything that may help you, Ill let you know!

Good Luck,
Zoey

[riuliani]

After a quick read I agree with Stacy that your LO may not be ready to give up his swaddle.  I believe many babies go on to be swaddled in some form up to 8 months or more.  Don't rush him.  I promise he will let you know.  For example, my LO will be six months in a couple of days.  I was also starting to prepare for the day that the unswaddling would begin.  He has been in a one arm Aussie swaddle for 4 months, so he can suck his fingers for soothing.  (By the way the Aussie swaddle allows them more room to move their arms without letting them poke or hit themselves.)  Today we did his normal naptime wind down.  I went to wash my hands after changing the diaper.  I laid him in the crib while I was gone.  I came back to swaddle him and I found him lying on his stomach sucking his fingers with his eyes half closed.  I think I mentioned before that he has always disliked being on his tummy.  I took this little incident as a sign that he was ready to be weaned.  For today I have only wrapped his body and not his arms.  He took the cue like a champ, grabbed his cuddly, popped the fingers in and off to dreamland.  Sometimes you have to let your baby whisper you rather than the other way round.

I know you have been told time and again to make notes and observe your baby to understand him better.  From your posts it feels like you have overstressed yourself.  I am going to suggest taking a few days or a week and stop trying to get your LO to fit an EASY routine.  You need to take some time for yourself and regroup.  We don't want you spending your days crying over his crib.  Babies are very intuitive and your LO is likely picking up on your distress, which can become a vicious cycle.  The two of you could just spin yourselves out of control and nobody is having any fun.  Let him do what he wants for a few days.  If he naps for 5 minutes great, if he naps for 2 hours that is just as good.  Perhaps you could also take a mental health break for yourself.  Schedule a little 'me' time for yourself, outside of the house, without the baby.  Treat yourself to a holiday massage or retail therapy.  Buy a new pair of shoes !  That always puts me in the best of moods.  Go to a coffee shop and get a fancy gingerbread latte.  Sit and read a good book that you haven't been able to touch since LO came along.

Bottom line...You have to take care of yourself before you can take care of anyone else.  I am getting a little concerned for you, so I am sending you nothing but smiles and giggles to help you through.

[Missy Lou]

before i forget to answer your question - we had trouble with sleeping and it started to even out at about 6 months.  honestly after stacy helped me with pu/pd.  after about a week of work with pu/pd and a re-do of routine, naps and sleeping evened out.  we've had ups and downs since then but it's easier to deal with.

[Missy Lou]

also - this was advice for me from stacy also. 

when i was trying to wean the swaddle, we had a really hard time.  i think addison wasn't ready yet.  we swaddled until she was 27 weeks so it's no rush.  but if you think he's ready, stacy suggested putting LO in the sleep sack (so they start getting used to it) and then wrapping the miracle blanket or whatever swaddle blanket you use around that on the outside.  so LO can break out of the swaddle but when he's ready.  i may have missed why you're wanting to wean it but i really think LOs sleep without the swaddle when they're ready.  if you try and force it, it can be harder than it needs to be.  but we did what stacy suggested and one night, she broke out of the swaddle and slept fine so the next night i didn't swaddle and that was it.

melissa