My SUCCESS story with those PESKY 5am Toddler wakes. Update 1st post 4-19-07

[¤ Efka ¤]

Yeah, but only AP what works for him in the middle of the night is breastfeeding. It used to be rocking, meaning I could go in and rock him and he fell asleep right away , this was how I get rid off these extra BF middle of night what came after our move to other continent. But no it wont, he just arches, pat/shush wont I am just at loss.
Today was bad night., Keir woke at 4.20 and screamed and screamed and tried to get out of bed. And I tried to lie him back and get him back to sleep. AT 5 I gave up, my DH was so mad already too as he was up this time too . He even vent to living room. Anyway then I fed him and he eat , I mean really eat and then we both fell asleep, slept through DH going to work and wake at 8. I did not BF anymore but gave him breakfast only.. So Q do you think he was really hungry? And what do you do with NW when LO is screaming his head off and its not for pain.Mind you Keir is a screamer

So what do you think of that? I actually even cried this night because I felt like a such of failure

[rinajack]

Efka, I think you should feed him.  The longer he does this, the more I think he really is hungry.  Maybe if you feed him right away when he wakes, then he will go back to sleep for you.  I don't think it is AP if he really is hungry.  Some babies really do need this feed even at this age, not many, but some really do.  Then if you can work on feeding him heaps during the day, eventually he will either stop waking for it, or won't feed so well, and then you will know that it is time to lose that feed.

[¤ Efka ¤]

Thanks Rina

[rinajack]

Efka, I know it probably isn't what you want to hear.  But seeing as he goes right to sleep after he eats, he eats very very well, and nothing else will calm him down, it really all does point to hunger in my mind...

Does it sound right to you, or do you think he really can wait another hour or two to eat?

So, daycare managed to get two naps out of Zara today, so I am expecting a better night.  Still only 1 hr sleep total, but her last nap was 4:05 for 1/2 hr.  She has gone to bed a little late, but not too bad, she will likely be asleep by 7:45.

How is everyone else going?

[¤ Efka ¤]

Not sure Rina, is he really hungry, he has been consuming less at  daytime . I guess it cannot heart to try to see, what happens this night and if he is really screaming , then wold try to see and feed him and put in his bed, instead let him sleep in mine

Hope Zara will sleep tonight.

[rinajack]

Since he is eating less in teh daytime, then it fits that he woke hungry even earlier than normal I think.  I do think feed for now, but not forever.  I think you should post about how to get more food into him during the day - maybe on the solids board.  For us, with dinner, I have pushed it to just one hour before bedtime, and she still drinks her bottle at bed time.  And she eats with us - this has made a huge difference in how well she eats her dinner. 90% of the time, she eats exactly what we eat, and I think this also helps.

What time is Keirs dinner, bedtime, BF etc in the evening?

[¤ Efka ¤]

He has his snack, about 4-6 oz keefir around 2 or 3, then has dinner about 5 bath 6 and last BF is about 6.30 or when he has taken late nap then bath is 6.30 and last BF 7.

[rinajack]

Can you put dinner a bit later?  So he eats at say 5:30, or even 5:45. Then straight into bath afterwards.  Or even later, so dinner is about 6, then bath then Bf all straight away?  What are you giving him for dinner, and how much?

Oh, and to make it to such a later dinner, Zara has two afternoon snacks, one at around 2:30, another around 4/4:30. Dinner at 6:30 (with us), into the bath, bottle aroun 7:15, bed at 7:30. For us, no matter how much she ate during the day, if dinner wasnt' good, she woke up very hungry at 5ish.  We make sure her dinner always includes some protein, as I guess if protein keeps adults fuller for longer, the same would apply to babies.

Then when I noticed Zara wasn't "starving" when she woke up, then I started to push her to wakeup later.

[rinajack]

I wonder if even swapping the order might help - BF first then solids later?

[¤ Efka ¤]

Hmm, maybe thats the problem, he gets hungry. I usually try to make dinner something with little meat and some carbs and veggies. Yestarday he was having dinner from 5-6 Just took too long to eat. Will start to experiment today 

[rinajack]

Do you eat dinner at the same time as Keir?  Honestly, of everything we tried to get her to eat more dinner, eating at the same time as Zara has made the biggest possible difference. 

[¤ Efka ¤]

Sometimes, Ill try to always eat when dinner is ready, but most often its half way  . Like yesterday. I was in one side making dinner and done things he got already

[rinajack]

Yep I used to do that too, it wasn't working for us.  Much better to give her a tiny snack, and a later dinner where she eats with me.

[Gippie]

Rina - Where do you live?  I noticed your post said "today" and you mention that the daycare already got 2 naps.....I am in the USA, east coast and it is Wed at 9:15 right now.   I posted that to test MY time ticker on posts.   

Efka and Rina - Efka - sorry about the long and frustrating night, I have so been there ad KNOW what you mean.   Regarding the bottle.....Quinn would do the same thing at those wakes, she'deat like nobodys business and have me convinced that she was HUNGRY, and it was of course the only thing that would get her back to sleep.   I have to say, I don't think the LO's are truly hungry - but they eat cause it is there and it gets them what they need and cannot do themselves, which is back to sleep (what they truly want) - the bottle IS the transitional object!!!!!!   The way I stopped the bottle is curing my mind of worry.  I upped her snacks.....I let her eat all night, she had a 9oz bottle AND offered her a DF....and guess what, when she woke, she was nutty crying (in the beginning) and ONLY the bottle would settle.   Mind you Quinn is 15 months and 30# - the child is NOT starving.   

Would YOU eat if someone brought YOUR favorite food at 4am - I know  I would.   LO's dont have a rational mind to say "I already ate"- - I think they can be hungry, I am too when I wake but they do not NEED the food....they need it to go back to sleep.

NOW - I would continue to feed him when he wakes - be consistant, go to him right away, offer comfort and feed him BUT transition the feeds with an object and words - he has to make a new association.     If you can - despite what others say - I brought back the DF a few times to PROVE TO ME that she HAD food in her belly and I was NOT starving my poor child.    Then, as he learns, make the bottles smaller and smaller or water them down......after a few weeks see if you can use the transition words and phrases as SOON AS HE STIRS and get him b2s.   Be ABSOLUTLY CONSISTANT with whatever you decide to do and then step back and see what you have.   Journal it all - trust me - it was CRITICAL to my sanity and evaluation of it all.   

Sleep UPdate - Rina - is it you who has the TV on in the am?     Well today, I woke late (5:25) and Quinn wasnt up yet!!!!!!!! .   Then the DARNED coffee pot bleeped and I heard her.   I also found that the mornings when she does stir before 6 and I finally go in at 6, TEDDY (the love of her life) in on the floor - so now I weigh going in to rescue teddy over staying out of the room.    Ahhhhhhhhh yet another drama.    Overall, we had a later bedtime and a solid sleep - if we had gotten to 6, I'd have been happier.    Will reporgram the coffee pot today, I am not going to change her, just the external crap that I can eliminate....and strap teddy to the bed - hahaha

So where are you rina and what time is is right now where you are?

[¤ Efka ¤]

Hmh, I am breastfeeding,so I cant do watering down we never done DF, when he was tiny , he used to wake once for eat anywhere between 2 and 4, then eat and go back to sleep. Becasue of this I kind of think he cannot be really hungry, but he is doing more at daytime and last days having less solids so he maybe is. So confusing. Today he had good dinner, so I am thinking he cannot be hungry. I guess I just have to wait and see and get some paper(get, as we dont have any ) and start taking notes o really see what is going on.

I am in Estonia so 7 hours ahead you and Rina is in Australia add to this 8 more hours ahead. So she is 15 hours ahead,if I did got numbers and hours right.