My SUCCESS story with those PESKY 5am Toddler wakes. Update 1st post 4-19-07

[rinajack]

I am not working full time, I do slightly shorter days, and have mondays off.  Ironically, I arranged it that way so that I would not have to rush Zara out of the house without having had breakfast - and if she sleeps til 7:30, she has to have breakfast at daycare LOL.  But, because of mat leave coming up, better she sleeps in, she can have breakfast at home in a few months.  I usually get up at 5:30am to see DH off to work anyway so not really much extra rest for me.  Later bedtime suits our family really well though, cause then she gets to see DH when he comes home in the evening, as there is some days when he isn't home til 7pm.

Good luck with w2s...I am keeping that up my sleeve for the stirring also, but they seem to be slowly stretching out, or even phasing out....so will wait and see.

[becky1969]

Your advice makes sense. Thank you! The thing that really hit me was that you just have to make the decision to go without the props, and trust that he and you can do it! I know that's what I need to do. It's funny, because we've battled props and AP before, and it's never that bad when we finally get rid of them! Usually just 3 days of disruption, and then he's fine. It's ME that's so desperately holding on to the props because I just don't want ANY disruption! LOL! I work at home when LO sleeps, so having him sleep long and well is key to me getting my work done. BAD EXCUSE! I shouldn't let him have these bad habits for MY convenience! I know teething is playing a role too, so I'm going to go very slowly as I know he needs so extra love right now.

Thanks for the help.

[Gippie]

W2s was not a success last night.   Quinn had 4 shots yesterday and it did not seem to affect her - but her morning was way off.    She ahd a good bedtime and good sleep, I did w2s (not good enough I think) and it did not work.  I heard her at 5 and I nearly caved....but did not.  She was in and out of mantraing  - but it was sadder than normal  - then she feel back to sleep till 7:30  .   Did I NOT just mention that we have NEVER seen a sleep in until 7:30 - and go figure.     We have also never seen a million dollars (testing out this potential pattern).    .  

Anyway - at 6, she went back and appears to be as usual.   I was proud of myself for AT LEAST not doing any AP and hoping she was acting weird after her shots?  Unsure, but today is a new day and I will continue the good fight.    I will try and do a better w2s over the weekend.

Becky - BW is like a 12 step program for Alcoholics, we need the support as we are the problem..haha.   I know you can do it, just decide and go for it!!!.   This is my thing....dont make excuses and GIVE IN(I did along the way and I have sooooooooooooo many friends who do, kid had a cold, didnt eat well, was out late, up late, bad nap).  I get it that those things happen - of course they do, but we dont make excuses and add AP to get past them, we just have to get past them.     Quinn has a little cold and got 4 sticks yesterday - I believe she is alive and well, happy as always and did not get the additional problem of me AP'ing her - THAT is adding one more problem on top - and never really fixes a thing.    I almost gave in this AM and did some AP cause Quinn had shots yesterday, she might be in pain, blah blah blah.     I went in, said what I always do, and went out.   I might be a little "tough" - but none of what I do makes it ANY easier on me.  If I was what some consider "more caring" I guess I would be feeding her to sleep instead of teaching her to sleep......but it is never easier on me.    2 months of broken sleep and trying to function as normal - EASY - hell no.   

I love the adventure of trying to help her be more independent!

Post back - rah rah - Go Becky Go!!!!

Stacey   

[aisling]

I'm cheering you on too Becky!

Stacey, well done and no you are not too tough.  You would be there in a sec to comfort if you felt there was something more seriously wrong.

We are doing not too bad, I love the new approach.  I had a very good sleeper, some things went off the rails, used some AP that ironically began when he was getting his last 8 teeth and had a high, high fever.  When he would wake early, I went in his room and brought him down onto the futon to sleep with me in the early hours, to help him clock some more sleep.  Then the teeth situation was over, I was still going in to "help." I stopped because, you know what...here is the irony, he wasn't going back to sleep! Why was I going in at 5-6am and bringing him down onto the futon to try and sleep that extra 45min-1hr day after day of him rolling around and blabbing and fooling around, there was no sleep!?  It worked when he wasn't well, but after...not, yet I kept hoping each day.  Now, just like during wake hours, I am helping him, teaching him, assisting him and observing him, not "taking care" of him and doing it for him, and again the funny part, I wasn't doing anything except for making myself frustrated.  So there we are.

Aisling x

PS.  IBTW, am keeping the futon in DS's room for only when I have a fight with DH! LOL! 

[Gippie]

Asiling - ha - you are SOOOO right.   We do so  much in that hour and they do nothing.  I really have no idea if Quinn really sleeps or not after her 5am wake, cause if I go in, I know she will want out - who wouldn't?   I do know that sometimes she goes back...and sometimes she does not.  I think she will take what she needs when she needs it and I just cant get my panties in a bunch over 60 minutes.    Hey - 60 days to fix 60 minutes  - and really it was use 60 days to learn how to accept 60 minutes.   

Doubt w2s will help the 5am wake....will try though...sure as hell cannot HURT. .

Off to call parents about their kids lack of effort in HIgh School.   We send out progress reports and the school demands that we call home to say EXACTLY what the report tells them.     They should be calling US - not the other way around.       If we call, they do nothing, but if we dont call, they say "she never called" - and they somehow get accomodated.    If our posts here are any indication, we will all be GOOD parents!

Stacey

LOL about the futon - we have a finished basement and an inlaw room......for the exact reason....hahaha

[rinajack]

Hi there. 


Stacey - don't worry that you didn't go in when it sounded sadder than normal.  Even when I know Zara is sick, I always try the normal, consistant every day way first, otherwise how will I know if she can handle it or really does need me.  I figure after I go and tell her it is time to be asleep now and leave, or don't go at all, she has the option of escalating it, by crying louder, yelling louder, whatever, as the mummy you can tell if she really needs you or not.  If she doesn't, she is OK without me.  I figure that means I only end up APing when she really means she needs it. And then it isn't AP, it is love, cause I have understood her needs. But it is hard, I always feel like going at the first tiny wimper - I think I might be one of those mummies that Tracey calls "poor baby parents" cause I always think - "oh poor baby, let mummy make it better for you" LOL.

It is 5:52, no stirring yet, looking good again this morning. Still have the TV coming on outside her room each morning though

A challenge for me today though.  I am going to a town 2.5 hrs drive away for the day.  Zara does not sleep well on these days, just a couple naps in the car, but they are usually only about 45mins each or so.  And I always end up APing after these, because I think it is MY fault for messing her sleep up, so if she gets overtired it is MY fault.  But you have made me realise something - she will be fine with that tiny amount of sleep.  She is always fine after that and less at daycare, so why shouldnt' she be fine when she has that little with me?

Go Aisling!! You can do this!!! Go, Aisling, Go!

Oh, and Yesterday there was definitely only time for one nap, cause DH thought she was a little tired at 12:40, so her put her to bed - and she played until 1:15 .  She slept til 3:30, so no room for a second nap obviously.  She was whingey in the afternoon, but I don't think it was nap related - she was drooling, and biting my shoulder ( ) and I put some teething gel on and her eye teeth are definitely moving, poor thing.  But she went to bed just fine, right on time, and slept through despite a major dog barking incident at about 3am.

[becky1969]

You know, I think one of my main problems is fretting over if he's sleeping or not. A lot of times LO will be quiet in his room, or else babbling/playing by himself happily. But I get upset because he's not actually SLEEPING! LOL! So, I'd intervene when honestly there was no reason to. I finally re-read BW and she said it's not uncommon for kids to wake up and play for an hour in the night!  I didn't realize that! I thought "sleeping thru the night" meant they slept! LOL! So, I've totally AP'd my poor bugger. He's actually a really good sleeper, and quickly overcomes MY mistakes, and I know he will again. It's MY issues I have to deal with! MY need to control, MY need to have him quiet, MY need to get work done, so I want him to fall asleep quickly.  I promised myself before he was born that I wouldn't pile my crap on my child, and look, here I am doing it! BW is so good b/c it makes you be honest about the parenting decisions you are making.  Time for me to get honest again, and re-teach my son to sleep independently. The truth is, it probably won't be hard - he's a sweet little boy who really is good at playing and sleeping on his own, so he just needs to learn to do it without mama again. This morning he woke at 5:30 sobbing (I think either teeth, or sleep disturbance due to teeth), so I comforted in my arms. I put him back down in his crib and went to my room. He was totally silent for about 30 minutes, then I heard him playing happily for another 30. I was seething that he didn't go back to sleep, but now I realize that he was fine. A 6:30 wake-up is not unreasonable, and he was a good boy for an hour! I just need to change how I view it.

Anyway, Stacey, your comments made me come to this realization and I thank you!

Good luck to the rest of you!

[Gippie]

Oh goody - so we are all getting to a better place.  Rina nad Becky - yes, I also fretted over sleep and freaked out - and guess what - she was FINE.    BW saves us cause we DO have a schedule to return to.   Today was off due to her late wake, later nap and slightly later bed, not so late to mess up tomorrow though.   


I so remember days when DH would say she slept less and I'd worry the whole time from nap to bed and she was FINE.   Think diet and exercise analogy....we need to change up our routine every once in a while - and when we go back to the old thing, we feel it and remember how good it can be.   Shaking things up tests our good work and lets the LO's test themselves.

We all seem to be in a better place and NOW we are ready to take the kids there.     I wish and dream that Quinn wouldnt wake at 5, but she does.......sometimes she sleeps ad other times no....but it's all good.     Like Becky said, the quiet time is still positive and restorative.

Heres to the weekend....and w2s  . . grrr......dont want to - but I will - why not try?

[rinajack]

Good luck Stacey!!!

So funny reading about we shouldn't stress about sleep.  I ended up LOL at myself in the car this afternoon.  All the way to town today, I was stressing because Zara hadn't fallen asleep yet.  I was worried she wouldn't cause I didn't even take the pram, so she couldnt' nap while we were there.  But she finally did fall asleep, then we quite fortunately got stuck behind a heavy/wide load, so that meant it took a little longer to get there, so she slept 40 mins.  That means it took more than 2 hrs in the car for her to fall asleep .

She was a doll while we were there, then I stressed when she fell asleep on the way home (4:15) that she would sleep too long and not go to bed when we got home .  I ended up laughing when I realised what I was doing to myself.  And she only slept 30 mins on the way home, and has gone to bed right on time. 

So she does know how to handle it .

Tomorrow I  don't have to get up for anything in the morning, not work, not DH, nothing.  So am hoping for one of those rare mornings with no stirs from Zara so that I can just stay asleep!

[¤ Efka ¤]

So our story.
Has been waking with screams about 5 or 5.30
Last 2 and  3 days it has been not really screaming. But waking and calling out. Only thing that seems little hold him back is when we (DH and I ) lye very still in our beds. We sleep in same room.
Anyway he has been waking and then stands up and looks in our direction in dark and calling out.Not really sure as what to do about this and how to react.

[rinajack]

For extra background to Keir (DS) and Efka (Peike).

Keir is not a sleeper, doesn't take long naps, no matter what schedule we try.  He is fighting his naps in a huge way at them moment, Efka is going to try some longer A times. It is not a transition to next sleep cycle issue, he just wants to get up, nap is over.  Keir has not been one to sleep in since he was just a couple of months old.  Efka and Keir have to share a room because they live in a one bedroom apartment in Estonia.  Keir can sleep through the night on his short naps, and is generally a very happy, busy baby when awake.  He is teething at the moment, but it is rare for him to sleep any later than those times anyway.  I have been trying to help Efka for ages, but don't know what else to tell her.  Keir is a mix of temperaments - grumpy, spirited and textbook I think.

Do you think teaching Keir the words - No Keir it is time to sleep now would work?  If they are in the room?  That is what I am doing with Zara, but I don't have to stay in the room....

Stacey, how did w2s go?

[Gippie]

Hmmmmmm....interesting with Keir.....

LAst night was weird.    We had SUCH an off - but still OK day on Friday, Quinn wole at 5, resettled and SLEPT TILL 7:30, which pushed all her times back.  She was still in bed by 8pm and had a great night.   She never woke at 5 (2nd time) and woke at EXACTLY 6:01 - so we had another successful night.    I dont think I am going to do w2s tonight, I am going to wait and see what the night brings.

Thats tough about Kier and the one room.  I do think that these kids DO get up at 5, and I REALLY do not know how often Quinn drifts in and out of sleep although I have seen her back asleep.  One thing that immediatly comes to mind is hanging a sheet or purchasing a tri-fold screen to seperate them and making the long part of his crib in line with the headboard of thier bed so that he has less "viewing room" if a screen was used - so when he stands up - he is facing the same direction as thier feet versus the long part of the crib facing mom and dad.    If that were me, I'd work to bridge the scream time with reassuring words that she can say in the beginning with the screen down and then as he gets less upset, add the screen and just use words.   I really do not always think there is a WAY to "fix" that 5 am wake, at the very least the way to make it better is to not be changed by it, get out of bed, stress or be upset and NOT do anything that takes away our LO's independance and opportunity to get back to sleep on thier own.   

YES - I definitly think Kier would benefit from an intervention of words that can't hurt and will hopefully help him.   If I had to say what "prop" Efka needs to gradually withdraw it is the lovely opportunity to SEE mom and dad right away.  A screen or some visual seperation would be my first step.     If they move, he sees them and then game over.

What do you think?

[rinajack]

Yeah I was wondering about some sort of screen too?  Efka is your room big enough to set it up that way?

So, as for not stressing about sleep, here I am, at it again.  Today Zara showed no tired signs in the AM, so I assume it is a one nap day.  Then at 11am, bam, tired.  Lunch is 11:30, so I kept her up and gave her lunch, then she nearly fell asleep while I changed her nappy, in bed by 12pm.  Did I do the wrong thing?  I think if I had have put her down for a little nap at 11, I would not have had any luck with a second nap, not from personal experience....but I feel bad that she nearly fell asleep while I changed her nappy, when normal she is busy throwing a tantrum about it

Oh, and woke for the day I think around 7ish, got her from the cot at 7:30!

[Gippie]

Rina - Yippie on the wake time!   We too had a great AM!   When I was in that "uh-oh - she is exhausted and it is lunch time" phase, I did a little cheat.   I'd give her a bottle before bed(in place of the solid lunch) and lunch when she woke.   We only did this a few times during the transition, but it prevented her being hungry and overtired.   

Our schedule is this

6am wake
11:30-2 nap (can be 12-2:30) usually 2.5 hours
7 bed

We usually give lunch at 11 BUT on a day like you had, she would have been in bed and had lunch later.    I dont think you did the wrong thing....you are just thinking critically about it.   When we did the 2-1 transition, we used to try a catnap ay 10am and then a longnap at 1.   If I were you, do not stress over "will she get a second nap?", cause the eary bed card is always sitting there for you.    JUst go with her, give her the nap she needs........11:30 is not horrid as you are transitioning......with a 7:30 wake, she will probably eventually have a 12-12:30 naptime, but it's all up to Zara - not us.


Relaxxx........Just heard Quinn.....she is alseep....good little monkey!!!

[rinajack]

2.5 hr nap, so she will be fine til bed time!

Funny story though.  I decided to have a nap too, I went to sleep at 1pm (so an hour after Zara).  When she woke, I was sooo confused, first I thought it was a night waking, then I thought, no, its light, it must be 7 at least, so she slept in YAY - hangon 2:30 oooohh   right, we just woke from a nap