My SUCCESS story with those PESKY 5am Toddler wakes. Update 1st post 4-19-07

[rinajack]

Woke her at 7:20 YAY YAY YAY.

I don't know that I am much help with NW, lets see what the other say....

[Gippie]

Hey Rina - Great days hah!  Woo HOoo.

Me - Continued success.  I had posted that I was gonna watch, journal and MAYBE try a w2s and then last night I heard her at 4 ish and went in to check, don't know why I went in, I was alseep and just did.  I tucked her in and covered her, she wasnt awake, but the 4am wake was a perfect w2s and guess what - I NEVER EVER heard her at the 5am wake - this was a first......in now what hs been 70 days!!!!!!!!!   I may do another 4am w2s tonight and see if that liks the 5am wake. 

Interesting last night I forgot to set my alarm and my human 5am alarm clock did not go off as well.... go figure, I woke at 6 and almost died - amazing how fast you can move when you need to.

Becky - I think the success came from a number of things and a combination of them all.    There is one question I have after reading your post - when is Owen's NW that you reswaddle and feed him at?

Mind you, as I type this, I have totally BTDT with all the AP that we "think" we need to do.....and it was a 60 day investment in getting a solution (and I work).    First off...the swaddle and the feed need to be weaned and REPLACED with skills to get back to sleep now that he has more abilities and challenges to actually get back to sleep (he can babble, sit up and play).   

Before I type a lot, tell me what time that last NW is and I will post back!!!!!!!!!

Stacey

[Pimento]

Gippie,

You posted your response to a different posting about early wakings that I had made and I can't thank you enough.  It gave me the confidence to say, I know my little one and the routine is sound, I need to ride this out, offer her reassurance without adding props and hope it improves.  My dh and I had a long chat at the weekend about why our dd has developed intense whinging and clinging with me but no-one else and also the night and early wakings.  A chat that started off about dd ended up about us, about how stressed we are for various reasons, not communicating as well as usual and both aprehensive about how we will cope when our next one arrives in Jul. 

AMAZINGLY, although not all that amazing when you think about it, the next day she was like a different little girl and her sleep has improved drastically since Sat night as well.  It's like having my little one back... happily plays for long periods by herself, greets me in the morning with either 'boo' or 'hiya' and a great big smile and is generally lovely to be around.  Not saying she doesn't have her moments but you know what I mean! 

I guess all I'm really trying to say is that I think the real cause of the sleep problems with our 17mo was to do with general atmosphere in the house and picking up on my stress even though I'm always outwardly level with her.  They're clever little buggers and i thought it was worth posting my experience in case it helped anyone else.  We're still up between 6-6.30 but compared to the 4.30 we were getting, this is a dream!

xxx

[aisling]

Pimento, I so agree.  Your house sounds like mine!  Ps. Come over to our Sept/Oct birth club and chat with all of us with the same age LO's.  Many are expecting or just had their 2nd as well.  It is in the EASY forum under birth clubs.  Just jump right in and introduce yourself, everyone is super friendly and willing to share lives ups and downs!  Tell them I sent ya!

Gippie/Stacey:  Happy to hear things going well.    We are doing much better too, but will report back, once i feel confident things are setting in, still feel we are in need of another half hour tacked on to the night.  Thanks to Sasha's Mummy -Andrea too  ! The teething tablets, which we haven't used in ages, are helping with the "itchy" bothersome 2nd yr molars.

Rina:  Hooray! 

Aisling x

[rinajack]

Today I went in at just before 6, made sure she had her dummy and lovie and laid her back down (she had both, but had decided her night was over, and laid back down).  It is now all silent again, 6:20.  This is working fairly well!

Any suggestions how to deal with this - you say you were confident in the routine you have, then started working on the early waking. For daycare days, I am completely NOT confident.  I have now instructed them to push her into one nap at daycare, because she is not tired enough on the A times of 2 very short naps to take those naps without a huge fight - up to an hour trying to put her to sleep, and they just do not have time for that. She did manage to sleep from 7:30 til almost 6 on that one nap, and the one nap totalled more sleep for the day at daycare than she has had in ages, it was 1 hr 35 mins. Normally 2 30 mins naps, if they can get her to take the second one at all.

I do think she is not that far away from the 2-1 transition, but I am afraid of it messing our mornings up again.

[becky1969]

Thanks Stacey!

He usually starts stirring around 11:30-12:00, and comes fully awake at 12:30-1:00 am.

He goes to bed at 7-7:30 (unless we have a 1 nap day, and then it's usually a 6-6:30 bedtime).

[rinajack]

She was still asleep when I left at 7:05!!

[Gippie]

rina and becky - will get back after bedtime

[rinajack]

She was still asleep at 8:05 when I spoke to DH. Maybe she has needed this one nap thing all along? Oh, who knows....

[Gippie]

Rina - DD is not at daycare these days for more than 2 hours with DH's new job BUT thre was a time when she was 10m or so that she was there 7-noon and we needed her to take her AM nap there....and as you said, it was a fight for her.  The biggest problem was that she was JUST TOO EXCITED to slow down and sleep - she wanted to play - who can blame her.    Quinn used to nap at 8:30 - 10 at HOME and at DC she wouldnt even think about it until 10 or so.  Sometimes it was long, others not.    It WAS challenging and sometimes she just ended up coming home at noon and taking a long nap - and she survived!   There were times, I would take her for a 20 min drive if she looked tired and that was OK.     YOu can definitly continue to do both one nap at daycare and two at home if you want.......follow her cues and when she does make the transition, I bet it will be that much easier.  We needed the 2-1 switch when I started noticing that she was STILL asleep when I got home from work - ansd she'd ne "napping" until 5pm!  (yikes)  Anyway - her AM nap slowly crept back an hour and then everything shifted back, she stayed up longer between naps nad the real bad part that added to the whole mess was that she was staying up late and napping a total of 4 hours in the day.    THAT was how we saw we needed one nap - the 2nd one was happening way too late  - use that as a guide.  If you can't get 2 in before 3:30 - consider one.

Becky - Here are my thoughts.  I dont think WI/WO or PUPD makes the cut when we have a prop issue.   The poor kids have been so used to what we have been doing and all of a sudden we start walking in and out - it seems like tourture and it was to Quinn, she howled.   I think it can work once you have substituted the prop for words that can be used with or in place of the other 2.

As I mentioned, definitly go for dropping the props.  I had a prop with the bottle and I used to get into her crib to cuddle with her  (awful I know, I know).   Whe we had a few NW's and when the schedule was FINALLY OK....I started to address the crib crawling in of mine first  (as you read on the long post).    For you and Owen, I think I'd attempt the swaddle first.     For a few nights, continue to do what you have been doing with the swaddle and the bottle and ADD a calming phrase...whatever you want (make it easy to say, I swear, mine does not have "flow" and at 3am - tounge twisters suck!) Swaddle him and say it over and over, give him a bottle and say it.     After a few nights, just cover him with the swaddle blanket and feed...say the calm phrase as much as you can.....hypnotism perhaps?   Anyway.....IF that works and he can go no swaddle - then try and get off the bottle (did I mention the whole process for me was SIXTY days) - I swear I keep mentioning that cause so often I read about and wanted a quick fix - not happenin'.    Anyhoo - Next get the bottle to be gone.  Now, I personally revisited the dream feed - and lots of people said it would wake her and disrupt her sleep (what sleep?) - and I did it.   Doing the DF gave me the confidence to stop feeding her - she was NOT hungry.     You can see that I recently made the decision not to feed her (10 days ago) when by situation, she had a bottle at 10:30ish and STILL woke at 5 - it told me for 100% sure, this was something else - my little monster I created.....so thats the day we stopped.     So I'd get rid of the swaddle and then the bottle.  I'd introdce a DF and maybe even sleep in his room a few nights.  If you have a calming phrase for him you can say it from the floor of his room...thats what I did with Quinn - I'd always say it, I say it now, all he time....and it is different that what I used to and still say to her at night.......lets get started on the swaddle and see wat happens....if that is already gone, lets go for the bottle.

I tell ya'  making the DECISION to stop doing all of the crazy stuff was the PEACEFUL turning point.  It all starts with confidence that we can do it and  they can tooo....he can do it.....you just have to help him bridge that place whenre the swaddle and the bottle were and WIWO/PUPD are not substitutes for a prop...they are good for sure, but not as substitutes for a warm swaddle and bottle......do that slow.....

ready set go.....post back

Stacey

[Gippie]

BTW - Rina - that last part about "Oh who knows" is the kiss of death....your second guessing will make a mess of all you have done so far - be SURE about what you are doing(it sounds like it is all going well).......I like what Pimento said, it really has a lot to do with US feeling well about decisions and schedules and THE LO's catchng on.     

Let me know what time nap #2 ends...as you think about the 2-1 - we did it at 13 m.....11m might seem a little early - but only time will tell.

Stacey

[rinajack]

Gippie - that is very interesting what you say about 2nd nap needing to start before 3:30 - rarely can we get that to happen, never at daycare, and only occasionally at home, only if her AM nap is 20mins....so she really is pretty close.

She ended waking this morning at, get this, 8:30AM!!

She will be doing one nap today, definitely no room for two.  If she continues to sleep til 7am or after, definitely one nap.  So I will keep working on the mornings, and the transition will probably then just happen on its own.

Thanks for reminding me to have a bit of confidence, I have been lacking that lately, and today has been particularly bad.  It was a very timely reminder

[Gippie]

The 3:30 bit was a BW thing I read, but a good point to work from with the 2-1 nap thing.    Quinn's slide to those LATE PM naps happened so slowly and each time I thought it was a fluke and then we had a mess of naps and nights.     Whay time is your DD's bedtime?    YOu seem to be getting later and later mornings?   Could there be a benefit to picking a time to have her up by to keep you feeling like you have a predictable schedule and then be able to create good nap times and maintain good nighttimes?    Just a thought?     Every once in a blue moon Quinn sleeps past 6am - maybe 6:30 and I have never had to truly wake her....I just re-read your AM's...they are strectching quite nicely.    If they stay OR you can set them at 7:30ih....you could probably do one nap at daycare AND home and have her in bed by 7 for a good nights sleep.
Just thinking out loud.   never had a sleep in - whats that like?

[rinajack]

I never got one either, trust her to sleep so late when I have to leave for work early!

I agree, we need a consistant time.  I am going to shoot for 7:30 - today we just let her sleep thinking surely she is going to wakeup any second now .  Honestly though, I won't mind if she does 6:30, I am an early riser, but 7:30 would be lovely when the new baby comes along.

So, from a 7:30 wakeup, I am going to observe her cues and see - will be one nap at daycare, but I will wait and see what the best decision is for home.  I really do think that one nap is pretty close, but don't want to rush her since things are going well right now.

We try to have her in bed by 7:30 - from there it depends how long it takes her to fall asleep - usually it is within minutes.  On bad nap days at daycare we bring it forward, but I don't like to bring it forward to much, cause that is part of how our mornings have ended up back at early so many times.

[Gippie]

7:30 sounds good - I am jealous...although we need and have 6 - so it works and it is what it is.    I agree, be HAPPY with the idea of one nap some days and 2 on others.  I bet some days she will need the 2 as she does transition.  I guess the key is being sure that it is OK and know all the important stuff is in place. 

Keep posting.    I am going to do w2s tonight at 4am - I really dont want to do it, BUT since it happened last night, I am one down, maybe 2 to go.   If it does not work, we will go back to her stirs and settles at 5....as long as it is not crying, I am still in the succes boat....but BOY OH BOY was it a joy to not hear those 5am yells. 

Stacey