how do you define sleeping through the night?

[Mama2boys]

he takes the dummy. I know he wnats milk because i ahve tried offering water, wont work he will cry..i tried offering only a couple of oz to wenat the volume, and he will stay awake till he is full and cry , migt fall asleep for 10 min but will be up again.
more once the monkey falls asleep

[Mama2boys]

hello all...same thing yet again DS woke up at 4:30 lats nigt for a feed and then slept through to 7:15...and was starving by 8am for bfats, normally its at 8:30.

Have moved up his afternoon milk so its at 2:30 and his meal intake has improved...but not the night sleep

Today i skipped the yoghurt post dinner and he had 4oz of milk before bed..lets see how this night turns out..but please please let me know if you have any ideas on how to make this 4:30am feed a 6:30am feed....its killing me.

[Mama2boys]

Got worse last night....was asleep at 8:15..great but up at 2:45 and would not go back to sleep tried water, rocking PUPD patting everything...milk worked..4oz down the hatch and then was up again at 5:45..same routine and again3oz worked...

this is just unbearable now desperate for advise.

[andibig]

I would say (imho) that the milk is a prop for him to get back to sleep.If thats the only way he knows how to get back to sleep then other methods will not work unless you are 100% consistent with it (and he will protest a lot).
Everyone wakes at night esp kids the difference is that most of us go straight back to sleep etc.
You could try diluting his milk feed down at night rather than cutting the amt down until he is only getting water.

[mari]

I'd go for cold turkey on the milk during the night.  Alex was on 3 bottles a night at 18 months old.  It took a while but after consistency I realised that she didn't really need the milk because she was hungry, she needed it because it was the only way that she could fall asleep.

[Mama2boys]

thanks ladies.

Mari: so when you went cold turkey and your little one cried blue murder..what did you do? Did you rock her to sleep? or how did that go,

I am just so scare doff upsetting the rest of the routine..its taken me forever to settle him into the exitssing system and his eating and sleeping is very closely related..

Lats night for a change was a bit better he must have woken up every couple of hours, but i didn't go in and he went back to sleep and only woke up at 5:45 for a full bottle and had 7oz an absolute first...

I had been diluting for the lats 3 nights...so maybe thats working

But Mari pls do guide me on your cold turkey experience.

thanks,
Mukta

[Mama2boys]

ok ladies, I absolutely need your help to solve this issue.

So last night was miserable, DS woke up at 2:45 I tried diluted milk, did not work, he was up every 30 mins and finally at 5 I gave up gave him a full bottle and he slept peacefuly after that. But yesterday had been a bad nap day...do you think that is related to his NW?

he does not get to sleep before 8pm but starts his day at 7:30am...

[andibig]

More than likely the bad nap caused the NWs.if DD takes a short nap I always push bedtime earlier.
He may also be teething which can cause horrid naps and NWs.

[Mama2boys]

You migt be onto something Andrea...I will ahve to track the naps down a bit more closely ove rthe next few days nad see how it goes..thanks for reading my daily venting!
Mukta

[mari]

When I went cold turkey I first did Gradual Withdrawal.  I had a put up bed and slept with her until I was eventually near the door, then I did WIWO.  She was'nt really needing milk, it was the only way that she knew.  I realised that she had lots of sleep issues, mostly due to not being able to put herself to sleep and needing something, I changed the milk to 'my presence' then gradually withdrew myself, if that makes sense.

I also used the method for naps, bedtimes and nightwakings to obtain consistency

[Mama2boys]

makes sense but not sure how it will work for DS.

Since no amount of me, rocking or pacifier calm him he just needs his

how do you know she did not need milk?

[KellyC]

Hi there

I hope it's ok to join in at this late stage.  IMHO your LO is probably genuinely hungry in the night because his body has got used to having the calories at that time, so he isn't having them during the day iyswim.  It sounds like going cold turkey makes you nervous so I'd really slowly cut back or dilute the night-time bottle, say half an ounce or one ounce every couple of nights and give him that amount when he wakes for the day in the morning so that eventually that whole bottle is given to him on waking.  You may still have to do some sleep training, Walk In/Walk Out or Gradual Withdrawal - depending on what you think will work for you, but I wouldn't do it until you're sure he's not genuinely hungry in the night.

Kelly x

[mari]

Well, she was 18 months old and eating plenty during the day, they shouldn't need that amount of milk during the night, they should be able to sleep through by that age so I took the chance.  I ensured that she was full enough at bedtime with porridge.  My guess was that she was needing the milk to settle rather than to fill her up.  Also, she didn't want breakfast as she'd had enough to fill her during the night.

I ensured that she had enough sleep during the day, and at the right time, imperative as overtiredness is a major contribution to nightwakings. This was down to trial and error but I did work around 5.5 hours. ie wake up 7am nap 5.5 hours later, hopefully for 2 hours and then bedtime 5.5hours after waking from her nap.  Then I went to bed at the same time as her and stayed there and that way I coped better with the nightwakings.  When she woke I gently put my hand there to tell her it was ok and I was there.  She cried, lots and I just reassured her, eventually, after a good few nights, she started to respond and go back to sleep with my reassurance.  
It was hard, I was alone (DH was away in Boston) and there were nights when I thought I was going to crack, but with the help of the ladies here (Sarah (henry'smama was a godsend) I got through it.  DH was away for 6 weeks and although I hadn't got her completely sleeping through the transformation was a miracle in his eyes.

[KellyC]

Gosh Mari, I hope you don't think I was criticising you because that hadn't even entered my mind!  I'm more of an all or nothing cold turkey kind of gal too but I sensed Mukta might want to try an alternative.   

[Mama2boys]

Hi Kelly and Mari,

thanks for the advise. Ya going cold turkey scares me a bit...epsecially as he is tiny, just about 25th percentile, and I just fear that following all the standrads etc will push me into not giving him as much as he should have.

DS has a decent bfats after his milk in the night as well..so am really confused.

But you ladies are spot on, he probably does not need the milk but I am being a bit of a fraidy cat. The days he has slept through he wakes up and takes 7oz, which is what he basically takes if  I sum up the 2 and the 5am feeds.

Next week will be the week as DH is away to Chicago and I can pull together all my will power and get going.

Holding my breath....