Anyone Want To Talk About The 2-1 Transition? Thread #18

[ZacsMumme]

Carried on from here........

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=215904.0

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[choc]

Hi Kara, I have tried everything!  I was doing a 10.30 nap for a while but was getting 30min naps.  It is like he lost the ability to transition through sleep cycles.  Todays 1hr nap was rare, usually they are 30 to 40 mins only.  When I tried to extend his first A I stuck with it a few days but when he goes to the childminder she puts him down around 10 as she says he is really tired then.  I feel bad saying please keep him up, especially if he really is acting very tired.  She doesn't seem very impressed when I say she has to keep him up. 

I am just coping with the short naps at the moment, some days he is fine, others grumpy. 

[ZacsMumme]

I feel bad saying please keep him up, especially if he really is acting very tired.  She doesn't seem very impressed when I say she has to keep him up.

What if you explain that if you PD early he will short nap and get OT, but if you keep him up a bit then he will nap longer??? - That said its hard when he 'isn't' napping longer yet  ((HUGS))

Well we have pretty much made the jump to 1 nap now. Z gets an optional CN ~4hour A in the AM or after 4.5hour A in the PM if I think he needs either just by going out for a drive or coming back from an outing around then. Poor thing though isn't 100% at the moment so each days is played by ear a bit. We are getting 11-12 hour nights (12hours in the cot though) and usually 2+ hour naps between 11-2.30 depending on WU and nap length. His A time seems to have jumped from 4.5hrs to 4.75hrs too which is helping prevent OT as his days fit better.

[lily528]

Choc I have to disagree on average maybe that IS a short A time for his age but you got the longest nap in months. Its not that he was use to being tired at that time of day cause that wasn't even the norm for him.  IMO you did right by following him as you and I stated before not everyday is the same and today that is what he needed and look at the nap you got! even if that was just catch up then obviously he needed that today.   Congrats on the longer nap.

As for my dd those short naps were with my mom and I am not so sure she is as good at telling her tired signs but also due to an appt I needed to take my gma too her first nap HAD to be at a certain time.  I hate that but on occassion it can't be avoided you know?  Today she did 1hr a.m. and 1hr pm.  She was up  at 5:50 this morning as I said ugh hope that isn't the start of something

[choc]

Thanks for all the advice.  I continued to be cues again this morning and he did a 4hr10 A today!  He had really good night and full 12 hrs sleep again so think he was ready for the longer A today.  Still reckon I'll get a 40 min nap though which is any minute so we will see!

I will talk to his childminder again, thanks Sara.  I think the problem is more me than her as I am worried that she will think badly of me, if to her he is clearly tired but I am not letting her put him down.  I will explain the tired signs could be habit.

[choc]

Got 55 mins 11.05am - 12.   How will I ever get him to sleep long enough to have 1 nap?

[new mummy]

Hi Mums,

Im another mum who has now joined this conversation as I think my DD is ready for 2-1 transition. Waking all hours at night, playing sometimes, or wakes early morning. 11months, 2 weeks old. Thanks ZacsMummie for showing me this post!!

This is what I'm doing so far (or hope to this week), please just give me a thumbs up if this is ok.

1. Extending his A time in the morning and afternoon by to 3.5 hours (before he was going 3hrs before a nap). A time in the evening may be longer.

2. Allowing him to take 1.5 hour naps each time. No longer than this. A total of 3 hrs of nap a day. Should I interefer with how long he sleeps in the day or no??

3. What would be my next step after this and also should I continue to expect nightwakings still and early mornings?>

[lily528]

so we had sttn of 12 hrs and 1.5 hr a.m. nap following a 3hr 45 min A...following cues still seem to be working for us..yesterday was 1.5 hr a.m. and a 1 hr pm followed by the sttn as i said...so that was a GREAT day!   

hoping it continues...she even woke at around 6:40 this morning as opposed to those earlier wakings at 6! I definitely hope THAT continues...

New Mummy....first off welcome!  2nd you asked about capping naps...how long of a nap do you normally get?  two 1.5 hr naps sound great to me..perhaps its the bt that is affecting nw's?  could you post your routine?  I think at his age anywhere from 2-3 hrs day sleep is about right.  how long of a night do you get?  you said waking all hours...how often?  do you have to intervene or does he self settle?

[new mummy]

He wakes every 2 hours at night, sometimes even more than this. Sometimes he plays and talks, bt most times I have to intervene, he stands up and cries until I go to him and put him back down. If it gets really bad I BF for a few seconds and then put him back whilst he is still awake (this usually upsets him bt dont want to go back down the BF to sleep route). Its been about two weeks since I've stopped BF to sleep, no change in the NW though. Just much better naps during the day.

So I thought it must be his days, that he's napping too long (he's always slept less than usual. bt recently because I've stopped BF him to sleep, his naps have become LONG for him and he sleeps really well during the day. Up to this point, he only took 25min naps.)

A: 7.30 (usually, bt past two days 5.30am starts)
S: 10.00/10.30 - 11.30
A: 11.30 - 2.30
S: 2.30 - 3.30/4.00
A: 4.00 - 7.30
S: 7.30

I dont know how to transition him. Do I shorten the 1st nap of the day, ie put him to sleep later and wake him early and keep the 2nd nap at the same time and same duration? Does this mean, the time between his naps, the A time, will start becoming shorter and may have an OT baby on my hands until he gets his 2nd nap? REALLY REALLY CONFUSED. Am so exhausted, just cant do it anymore. He's 11months and has NEVER slept through the night. The best time was between 2-6months when he would just wake up once for a milk feed. From 6months-till present he just wakes up all the time. I used to BF back to sleep until 2 weeks back when I had enough and slowly just kept putting him back into the crib without a BF.

BIG SIGH!

[lily528]

awe I feel for you that is definitely A LOT of waking....my dd is 13 mos and still wakes for one feed during the night most nights... I have contemplated stopping the feed but have not tried to yet...hers is usually at 4-4:30 a.m. and I am afraid to creat an early waking if i don't get her right back to sleep with a feed...we went through something similar as well where she went back to frequent wakings...i know you must be so exhausted I am so sorry...however IMO and I am no pro but I don't think you need to transition to 1 nap you are getting great naps out of him..however I do think you could definitely push his A times..I would start there and see how it effects his nights...seems like he needs more wake time and stretching the A's may inturn shorten his naps a bit...if it were me if anything maybe cap the pm nap if you got a good a.m. nap and by stretching the A's your pm nap would be later in the day and closer to BT so you wouldn't want him to sleep too long..maybe an hour?  also if it were me I would switch to an earlier bedtime...maybe 6:30-7...

[lily528]

also I find the days we have EW my dd does a shorter A time in the a.m....are you doing this?  This would also work well with that earlier BT so you don't fall too deep into OT...like maybe do a 2.5-3 hr A after an out of the norm EW..usually pulls a good nap then shoot for a regular A to the pm nap then bedtime at around 6-6:30...let him catch up a bit then you will prob start seeing his normal wake up time and go from there with stretching the A's a bit...

[choc]

Love your new pic Melissa!
New mummy, my first thought was too much day sleep, so I would cap a nap.

Aidan had a EW at 5am today!  We haven't had a 5am start for as long as I can remember.  I'm not sure if it was teeth as I think he has 2 on the way, or because he had more day sleep than normal yesterday.  He had 1hr10 min am which is the longest in months, then half an hour pm as usual but he had it early as we had to travel in the car.  Then he had another 20mins in the car on the way back. Usually we have 40min am nap and 30 min pm nap, so he had quite a bit more?  What do you think?  Teeth or too much day sleep?  I know its not too much day sleep really but for him it is a lot and we usually get a 6.45 wake up!

Today at childminders he had 1hr15 am and 1hr pm!  Loads of sleep again!

[lily528]

choc first off thank you on the pic comment   and 2nd definitely not too much day sleep IMO...even if its a lot for him it is not too much as far as i am concerned...that's only 2 hrs total...my guess is its teeth...or he just wanted to get up early :0...I think its possible there is no real reason sometimes...we don't always wake the same time every day either right? naps sound great today too !  wahoo!   be excited..doesn't sound like to much sleep to me at all

[choc]

Ok cool, probably teeth then!  Yes great naps today, think he may be catching up from some OT or its the teeth, either way at least I know he can still sleep longer than 40mins!

How is your day going after your 'perfect' day yesterday!

[ZacsMumme]

new mummy welcome to the dreaded 2-1..

With those EW you can deal with them in 2 ways and this depends on your LO. As Melissa said you can offer the first nap of the day a touch earlier. However, you need to be careful with this as a lot of LOs will tack on their lost night sleep to their first AM nap if it is close to WU. If this happens you encourage the EW IYKWIM. We were in the EW boat for months and had this problem. If I offered a nap too close to WU it reinforced the EW.

If you are going to give the AM nap early then this needs to be the one you cap at 45mins or so, and then offer the PM for as long as he wants to nap.

I don't think you need to transition to 1 nap you are getting great naps out of him

This is true...but the frequent NW some of which are up to an hour playing (is that right?) indicate he is getting too much day sleep, or not enough A time. You certainly don't want to 'jump' to 1 nap, but I do think you need to start capping one of these naps so that your day is shorter. It is so long because of the long naps, and possibly you are in an UT/OT loop.

Generally the AM nap is capped as it is easier to transition. We went the other way for various reasons but I think before anything else you need to work out which nap you will want to cap in the long term and focus on weaning this nap out while other nap will become your 1 Nap of the day and hopefully gradually get longer and closer to midday

So we are officially onto 1 nap days now...Z gets the option of a CN in the car, but never takes it anymore Our days are looking like this (touch wood they dont come crashing down now I write this)
WU 7
Nap 11.45ish for 2-2.5hours
BT 6.30-7ish.

We are getting STTN most nights but teeth are messing with Z a bit