Just - why? So frustrated!

[becj86]

Does that make sense?

Totally makes sense. I just am quite over-rational I guess - need an explanation for everything... you're her mum, you know what's going on with her much better than I can from the other side of the world.

[essexlemon]

Have you tried PU/PD?  I couldn't see anything about it earlier in the thread.  I know you are experienced with ST (you coached me through getting my DS1 sleeping at 13 months - before he got complicated) and it's not for all LO's but if you've tried everything else could it be worth a look?  Sorry if this has already been covered.

[anna*]

Have you tried PU/PD?  I couldn't see anything about it earlier in the thread.  I know you are experienced with ST (you coached me through getting my DS1 sleeping at 13 months - before he got complicated) and it's not for all LO's but if you've tried everything else could it be worth a look?  Sorry if this has already been covered.

I hadn't done so because of the dummy, but now when I do it she gets furious at being put down! So I give her a just a quick reassuring cuddle if she is really upset - which doesn't happen very often tbh.

[clazzat]

I had a bed in her room and I slept in it with her. I decided that I wasn't going to stress about whether she was asleep or not, I just made sure she was never on her own and unhappy. It didn't actually take very long for her to get into the habit of falling asleep when I got into bed with her, so we definitely both got more sleep that way. I was always very clear that it was night time, though, so there was no interaction or a time with me between the hours of 6.30-6.

[anna*]

Hm, I'm thinking ahead in case all this doesn't work... I can't fit a third bed in their room (there is already a cot and a bed in there) so it would mean her coming into our bed. So sometimes you would be in the bed and she would sit or lie with you and cry? See to me, if she wakes up but will go straight back to sleep if she's in bed with me, that means she DOES need the sleep overnight. If she was routinely awake for a couple of hours in the middle of the night every night... that seems to fit in more with the theory about night sleep being broken up with a chunk of awake time in the middle being more normal/natural.

[ENMS]

I can't fit a third bed in their room (there is already a cot and a bed in there) so it would mean her coming into our bed.

can you fit a playpen in your room maybe so she would sleep in your room,but not necessarily in bed with you?

[anna*]

We really can't... we live in a small house and there is only about 18" between my side of the bed and the wall, and the same at the end between the bed and the dresser, and if we put something on DHs side then we can't open our wardrobes...

Our choices are, either sleeping in her cot (with or without Stan there, with or without me sleeping on the floor), or in our bed.

[anna*]

I've called the sleep consultant to ask, what if after 4-6 weeks there's no improvement. If they say that has NEVER happened, I guess that is reassuring because surely some babies have far worse sleep troubles. I am waiting for a call back from the main advisor. I just want to explain that we have been sleep training for weeks and all the things we have tried etc before putting any £ down.

[squeakersmum]

Anna DS has never ever slept in our bed with us - not through want of trying on our part when he was smaller and bot sleeping!

He just could not settle there with us.

What does she do if you don't go in straight away? We had all sorts of problems because Ben's mantra cry went from a kind of moan when he was smaller to a much louder and more distressing (for me) cry. But actually he didn't WANT me there 'messing' with him.  In the end I would have to go in to him when he first woke and reassure him with a hand and a few words and then stand halfway between his bed and the door. If I left, he got more upset, if I was too close to him he wanted out.

He STILL doesn't sleep through the night, but at 3 and a half it doesn't really disturb us any more. He wakes up, goes to the toilet and goes back to lie in bed for goodness know how long until he fall asleep again. I know that he comes into really light sleep and anything can wake him. He WANTS to be asleep but it takes him an age to go back off again. Actually, I'm the same.

[anna*]

What does she do if you don't go in straight away? We had all sorts of problems because Ben's mantra cry went from a kind of moan when he was smaller to a much louder and more distressing (for me) cry. But actually he didn't WANT me there 'messing' with him.  In the end I would have to go in to him when he first woke and reassure him with a hand and a few words and then stand halfway between his bed and the door. If I left, he got more upset, if I was too close to him he wanted out.

She just cries and cries. Not desperately hard - it may be a mantra cry but it seems I don't make matters worse by being there - it is the same cry whether we are there or not. It goes between what I 'know' as her mantra cry, then escalates, then back to mantra again, then escalates again.

When I've been not sure I sit on the nursing chair in the bedroom which is a couple of feet from the foot of the cot - so she could only see me if she sat up or turned 180 degrees - and she can just keep going. For hours, literally, she has cried for two hours and often takes 1.5hrs to settle at a NW.

When she does eventually stop, she is doing it 'herself' because nothing we do seems to make much difference.

[*Becky*]

I can't fit a third bed in their room (there is already a cot and a bed in there) so it would mean her coming into our bed.

We can't fit a bed in m's room either so if it is a long one I make a bed on the floor and for EWings I get into her cot bed!!! I know crazy but needs must. It is cosy to say the least.

[anna*]

Yeh, last night I was on sofa cushions on the floor in there - can't sleep in Stan's toddler bed it is torture for my hips if I can't straighten my legs. She's just got a normal cot - not a larger cot bed - don't think I could fit in there!

[clazzat]

I think my point about the chunk in the middle being more natural was not so much that you would be expecting to be up with her for that length of time (ie she wouldn't be able to go back to sleep until the end of that time) but rather that she becomes fully awake at some point in the night and that is why she is so difficult to settle. I think that with e we just conditioned her to know that it was still night time, so she adjusted to going straight back to sleep when we got into bed with her. But, yes, there were many nights - probably 3 months or so - when I would lie there with her and she would be awake, sometimes crying but not always. If she was very upset, we would sometimes bring her downstairs to watch tv for a bit to calm her down and let her settle back to sleep.

What would she do if you sat in the chair with her? We did that with m when she was about 6 months as she started waking in the night and it was the only way to settle her.

[anna*]

What would she do if you sat in the chair with her? We did that with m when she was about 6 months as she started waking in the night and it was the only way to settle her.

She goes back to sleep fairly quickly, but wakes up again half an hour later when she realises I've sneakily put her back in her cot and she's not being cuddled any more   we had several runs of this last night when I was cuddling her back to sleep because of Stan being unwell and not wanting him to be disturbed by her crying. This was all in the early part of the evening so looked just like OT, but then she did have good naps yesterday. So, as usual, I'm clueless!

[clazzat]

With m we would just rinse and repeat until she was sufficiently asleep to not realise that she was back in her cot. For her, it was an absolute maximum of 2h that she could stay awake, so we would sit with her until she seemed asleep, put her back with our fingers crossed and leave the room. If she woke up again, we would do the whole thing again, but if it had taken 1h55 then we knew that she would be asleep in 5 minutes!