5 week old - can't get to sleep or stay asleep

[labrodyk]

I'll try the white noise for her naps, I should have mentioned that we do have a fan on in her room so that blocks out a little noise but the house is SO small so noise travels regardless. I tried elevating the mattress but it made no difference. She also seemed more upset in the bassinet/portable cot thingo hence why we moved her to the cot.

Yes, she is self settling once the dummy is in but she drops it out a dozen times before actually keeping it in and then she falls asleep. Once that 30/40 min mark comes and she hasn't spat the dummy already she's awake. If the dummy has already fallen out, she'll still wake. I do try to replug her fairly quickly when I see her stir on the monitor but probably to my detriment in teaching her how to resettle as she knows I'll come running with the dummy...

I was trying to keep feed times at set intervals but she's so unsettled i ended up chopping and changing and offering food at the 3hr mark if she's awake otherwise i just let her sleep. I wouldn't even know where to start with her at the moment. I'm sticking to A time of 1hr15/30 and no later but that is the time outside of bed and doesn't include the time she actually takes to settle post wind down (which isn't long - I just change nappy, wrap, cuddle briefly and put into bed).

Today has been a crap-shoot all over too... I tried for a sling nap at a friend's house and it was SOOOO restless she was off and on awake again for only about 1.5hrs but the amount she slept may have been 50-60 minutes MAX. She was really windy too, squirming around and farting a lot and crying even though she had the dummy in her mouth and was on my chest...

EASY:

After taking so long to settle last night the rest of the night/day went like this:

S: 7.20, asleep by 7.30 but woke at 8.00pm and we spent another 45-60 minutes replugging and settling (leaving the room to see what she'd do) until she finally went to sleep again.
NF: 11.30
NF: 3.30
NW: 6.15 - replugged and I think she resettled and dozed but I fell asleep so she musn't have been too loud.
WU: 7.00

E: 7.30 - minimal
A:
S: 8.20. She dropped her dummy and was grizzling and I was going to go in and replug settle but she managed to self settle without it!!! Of course woke at 9.10am
A:
E: 10.30
A:
S: 11.15 in sling. Slept fitfully and woke constantly despite me walking around. took her out at 1.40
E: 1.40
A:
S: 2.40 - into the car and was asleep just before 3pm but woke at 3.20
A:
S: 3.50 into bed but still trying to settle her now at 4.20. She starts drifting off with her dummy and then wakes crying slept 4.45-6.25

E: 6.30pm
A:
S: 7.45; dropped dummy and whinged for 5 minutes before I gave it back and she was asleep around 8 but continually spat her dummy out and cried for it back for an HOUR!! I was honestly about to throw them in the bin. When I go to give it back there is saliva everywhere, the sheets are wet so she must be trying to soothe her throat or something. Finally asleep aslee at 9pm!

NF: 11.30pm. Thought she might have slept a bit longer than 2.5hrs here...
NF: 3.15pm. Didn't settle until 4.30am after doing a poo shortly after being put back to bed and dropped her dummy continuously

Fri 18-Dec
WU: 7.30am
E:  7.40am
A: 1hr30min
S: into bed at 9am. Self settled with dummy. I put on the moderate white noise/womb sounds from the 'Happiest Baby on the Block' CD. Unfortunately she woke at 9.35 and I was having success stroking her head to get her back to sleep but she kept pulling her legs up to her tummy and waking bright eyed and spitting dummy out so now she's wide awake laying in bed...
S: 10.00am - 10.53am
A:
S: into bed at 12.20pm

Where should I go from here dget buy think? I'd love to try a medical route but is that what's wrong or do I just have a settling/sleeping/prop issue. My gut says discomfort but what that discomfort is and whether there is a way to alleviate it, I have no idea.

[grace annes mommy]

Where should I go from here dget buy think? I'd love to try a medical route but is that what's wrong or do I just have a settling/sleeping/prop issue. My gut says discomfort but what that discomfort is and whether there is a way to alleviate it, I have no idea.

My gut is saying discomfort too.  Yes, there may be some temperment mixed in, but from everything you've said about the feeding, etc, I'm still thinking discomfort.  I do think she's trying to get comfort from the paci.  It could be her reflux is not managed.  Or have you considered a dairy allergy?

I would go ahead and incline her mattress.  You may not see a dramatic difference, but it should help her feel a bit more comfortable.

I know you're replugging the dummy a lot, but it does sound like she's doing pretty well with working towards independent sleep.  One day she'll be able to replug herself.  When she's falling asleep, do you stay with her and replug as needed? Or do you leave and come back when she fusses for her dummy?  With getting over that 40 minute mark, you can come in at 30 minutes and shh/pat or replug to help get her thru the transition.  The idea is to do this with each sleep for 3 days and it will teach them to get thru on their own.  I personally haven't had the time to do this for a full 3 days...  I do think part of the stirring at the 40 minute mark is developmental tho.

From your last couple EASYs, it looks like she just really has a hard time sleeping on the go and ends up OT and crashing late in the day.  This makes bt tricky and might disrupt her night sleep some too.  Of course you can't stay home all day.  But can you plan some days at home to let her catch up?  Or get home earlier so she can have a longer afternoon nap?

I don't know if this will be helpful, but here's what I've been doing lately.  Keep in mind that I am far from a perfect BWer.  In fact, my LO is being rocked to sleep far more than she's self settling these days...  I'll cross that bridge later, though.  Here was today and more or less what has been working for us for a couple weeks:

NF 12:45am
NF 3am
NF 6:30 dozed in bed with me
WU 6:55
A
S 8:30 to 9:10 (almost always a short nap, up to 1hr max.  I've given up trying to extend)
E 9:15
A I've been going out right after this E, or sometimes before and feeding when we get there.  My DD1 is off school for winter break and getting out for the morning is keeping us all sane!
S 11-12 in the ergo (I can usually get about 1.5hrs in the ergo. Today, she woke at 40 mins, then dozed til a bit after 12 so not the best nap)
E 12:30
A screamed all the way home around 1:30  Does not like the car when she's tired!
S at home 2pm to 4 (resettled at 2:40 by rocking  )
E 4pm
A
S 5:15 to 5:50 in ergo
A
E 6:45
S 7pm fell asleep with bottle.

So, certainly not the perfect EASy, but it's working for our family for now.  I think the nap from 2 to 4pm plus the catnap has been crucial in curbing the OT before bed. Having her up around 4/4:30 seems to be a good time that doesn't disrupt bedtime.

HTH a bit..

[labrodyk]

Thank you so much for you EASY and your support. I've been home all day today and still she's a mess...

I don't stay with her until she's asleep - I go in and give back paci and comfort her with a head rub over the eyes and then leave... I tried to go in at 30 minutes today but she spat her dummy and then woke a few minutes later and that was at the 25 minute mark!!

12.25, dropped dummy 12.53. Woke crying at 12.55
tried to resettle until 1.03
Spat dummy as soon as I left the room.
Tried to resettle from 1.05-1.50 but without the dummy she just cried and didn't even pause with me patting and shushing.
I put her on her side and gave the dummy back after she brought up milk despite being fed 3 hours before!

I feel like no health professional is listening to me other than a few saying it's reflux although the meds really aren't working. I'll elevate her mattress again.

[grace annes mommy]

Waking at the 25 min. mark may have been pain.  Hard to know for sure, but with routine issues or OT you get those 30 or 40 min wakeups.  Pain can pull them out of sleep anytime.

Have you posted on the reflux boards yet?  I know there are lots of mamas who have been in your position.  Where your instinct is saying reflux or something is amiss, but you second guess yourself bc of what the health professionals are saying.  They may have advice about different meds to ask for or what to tell the dr.s so they listen.

Hugs, hun!

[labrodyk]

Ok, so every night is a wakeup after 30-40 mins sometimes less and we spend an hour getting her back down. The last day or two has been like the below;

BT: 6.30; woke at 7.15 took until 8.15 to settle and fall asleep
NF: 12.00am
NF: 4.15am
WU: 7.35am.
E: 7.45am
A:
S: 9.00am; woke at 9.40 and I held her body and replugged dummy off and on until 10.00am where she drifted off herself and didn't wake until just after 12.00pm!! (Insane)
E: 12.00
A:
S: 1.30pm - roughly 20 mins and wouldn't go back to sleep
A:
E: feed
S: 4.15 - another 20/30 mins and wouldn't resettle to sleep
A: bath
E: top up feed
BT: 6.30pm but took until 7.00/7.15pm to finally settle to sleep. Just waiting now for her first NF.


The day prior to this was exactly the same with the super long morning nap and then catnaps in the pram all day. DH had both kids after that long nap for the first time by himself so I thought she might short an for him.
What should I do? I'm going to try and extend the other naps tomorrow and see what happens but she'll highly likely not want a bar of it! Starting to get really confused and annoyed that there's no predictability to do anything or get out with my DS because even in the sling she cries.

[grace annes mommy]

Yay for a long morning nap!  Gotta hold on to those successes, right!

I wonder after a nap that long, she could handle a touch more A time?

I think the wakings right after bed are just OT.  So annoying!

[labrodyk]

Yay is right! I'll take that long nap as a win even if it never happens again! Lol.

I think you might be right about A times after a good nap but so hard to adjust and know what's what. Especially if she starts showing tired signs.

Damn, another 45 minute nap this morning she's not resettling for...I knew it was too good to be true. She finally resettled in the swing at 11.20. I never know after getting her back to sleep whether to wake her or not and if so, when. She fell asleep 10 mins before 4 hrs between feeds.

So our naps yesterday were;

WU: 7.35am
S: 9.00am-9.45am
S: 11.20-11.40am in the swing.
S: PD at 12.40pm in bed but slept 1.00pm-1.45pm. Managed to resettle her with dummy and gentle face rubbing around 2pm.
S: 2.00pm-4.50pm! (Kept dummy in!)
S: 6.35pm; asleep 6.40pm - 6.50pm; 7.00pm - 10.30pm (kept dummy in But woke when it fell out. I just fed her...)
NF: 10.30pm
NF: 2.30am
NW: 5.00am (replugged)
NW: 6.30am (replugged)
WU: 7.35am

Talk about all over the place. I'm just trying to stick to 4hrs feeding at the moment and winging the rest of it but always following EAS. Probably making more problems for myself but I don't know how to fix things. Even the night wakings, because she loses the dummy, I don't know whether she wakes hungry or for her dummy so that's making things confusing too.
Any thoughts?

How are you going too? Any patterns emerging or more structure.

[grace annes mommy]

So how long were you trying to resettle before she fell asleep at the 4hr mark?  I probably would have fed her at 3hrs even if resettling.

[labrodyk]

I was trying for about 20 minutes in her bed and then just put her in the swing in the living room with. DS and I.... I did offer milk but she spat it out and only took about 20-30ml

This morning she only drank about 80ml and was really tired after barely an hour. After I put her swaddle on she was practically asleep as I lay her down which is so odd but of course woke at the 40minute mark. But her sleep was;
8.50-9.30
9.45-10.00
10.12-11.37

E: 11.37
A: she was quite whingy so I put her in the ergo and at 1hr15A she was falling asleep so I transferred he to her bed so wasn't exactly 'awake'. Oops.
S: 12.50-3.30. No resettling and kept her dummy in the whole sleep!
**HAPPY DANCE**

[grace annes mommy]

Hooray! Much better! Sounds like she's going to catch up on a bit of sleep for you!

Good for you, reading her cues.  I just remembered with my DD1, her tired cues were very hard to read, so towards the end of her A time, I used to put her in the sling and wait til her eyes glazed over and started shutting.  Then I'd pop her in bed.  Almost like a long pre-WD, with a quick WD to bed.

I wouldn't worry at all about putting her in bed asleep already.  She's already got a good start on IS and she's still itty bitty.

[labrodyk]

Thanks so much Hun, really pleased she got some more shut eye this morning! I might try the ergo trick tomorrow too.

I managed to get a bit of catnap sleep out of her this afternoon from 5-5.37pm but it was a struggle and she was quite upset from around 4.30 - grizzly and cranky so thought she was ready for bed.
I also misjudged bedtime because of her grizzliness and tried to get her down at 6.40. She took until 7.00 to fall asleep but for for the first time in weeks she didn't wake after 40 minutes.

She's already woken for a feed at 10.00pm. Should she be going longer now - I'm still doing 3 sometimes 4 NF.... She also woke for her dummy back at 11.45pm this paci run is getting old very quickly! Lol

Thanks so much

[grace annes mommy]

Sounds like a much better day overall!  The waking after 40 mins at bed sounds like the lack of naps catching up with her and causing OT so sounds like the better naps helped!

I think at this stage it's normal to still have a few NFs.  Especially if she doesn't always eat well during the day.

It does sound like the paci is crossing over into prop territory...  But it's really a question of whether it's worth it or not to remove it considering discomfort is a possibility and she's hard to settle in general, yk? Do keep in mind that she will eventually be able to plug herself if it's not something you want to get rid of yet.

FX for a decent night!

[labrodyk]

You're right about the waking after 40 mins - I agree it's built up OT. My DS used to be the same!

I only fed her twice last night and paci'd her the rest but we've definitely passed into prop territory. She woke pretty much every hour!!! I'm just not sure how in the world I will settle her if she doesn't have it and I know she'll be able to put it back in herself (6 months old?). Just don't want her to be super OT from all the wakings but might have to grin and bear it!

[labrodyk]

Oh wow. Last night and today have been absolutely SHOCKING! I don't know what's happening but it's horrible. I think the paci has to go but I'm too scared especially so close to Chistmas...

S: 8.57 in bed
9.07-9.36
9.45-9.50
10.15-10.20
I kept putting the dummy back in and calming her before leaving the room but she wouldn't have a BAR of going back to sleep.

E: 10.30 - 80ml
S: 11.15 in bed, 11.20-1.07
E: 1.30
***soooo grumpy and fussy

S: 2.02. Heaps of rocking and patting and putting dummy back in. Slept 2.30-2.55.
Tried to resettle for 30 mins but no luck.

E: 3.30 - not interested at all.
A:
S: 4.20 - tried to settle without the dummy. Took me ages and she only slept from 5.00-5.15pm and would not resettle at all.
E: 5.30 - again really fussy and drank 100ml

[grace annes mommy]

Is Audrey 11 weeks now?  There's a WW at 11-12 weeks that was really rough for us but only lasted a few days thankfully.  DD2 was up every hour or 2 for like 3 nights and then it just magically stopped.  So hopefully you've just hit that WW here!

With the paci - it's a hard call to make.  Because of her reflux and feeding stuff, sleep training may be really hard and just not that effective at this point until she's more settled, yk?  But, she is so young that she'll be easier to 'reprogram' if you're ready to ditch the paci now.  It will be a few days of super consistent shh/pat but then it will be gone.  I guess I'm saying, it still might not guarantee the best sleep, yk?