WEANING thread #2... Come share experiences and offer support

[inoella]

Aylien -  Thanks so much for your helpful reply! We had an awful night last night and it was just really helpful to hear your success and tips. She does have a nurse-to-sleep association and besides the NW naps have been awful - pretty much refusing the p.m. nap. So she's to bed by 5:30 or 6 lately so it's hard to know if she's getting enough BM calories during they day. I found it interesting, tho, that last night she only got one oz in a bottle (that's all I had left!) and she didn't even want to nurse right away when she woke up at 6 - 12 hours after her BT nursing. I thot she would be starving! And she did eat more solids today but was so tired by evening... we'll see how tonight goes.
And I did get DH to help out at night - so I think that will help a lot. I think I won't even give him a bottle - just the sippy -s o we don't have to "re-wean"...
One question - when did you cut down to 3 bottles/feedings a day? I feel like we need to do that to get her to eat solids but I'm afraid to do it while I'm weaning the NF, ykwim?
Today I just kinda went with the flow to get a feel for things but tomorrow I'm starting with PD for naps - we'll see how it goes. I'm dreading it!!!! She was so clingy today and seeming unsure about things - I think weaning the night feeds and learning to fall asleep on her own is best for her in the long run, but I feel bad I've let things go so long as they are and that she's paying for it!
Anyone else still following? Good luck to you!

[aylien]

Sending hugs to you, girl. Sleep training and night weaning are really rough on the heart (and body), I know. You have the right idea, though, I think it WILL be better for her in the long run if she knows how to fall asleep on her own and stay asleep on her own.  Don't beat yourself up for waiting to sleep train until now.  You've done the best you can and are continuing to do so.  Also, for what it's worth, I didn't teach independent sleep until 9/10 months and although in some ways it was harder because Kira had such a strong nurse-to-sleep association, in some ways it was easier for me because I felt like she understood what was going on better at 10 months.  I mean, at 4 or 5 months I remember her being so much more helpless and I felt like she needed my reassurance much more back then than at 10 months.  So in a way it was easier for me to sit next to her while she cried at 10 months than it might have been at 4 months.  Not sure if that made any sense to you.  Just a way to look on the bright side of things.

Be consistent and things WILL get better, I promise.  I know this is easier said than done, especially when it's 3am and it's your third time awake for an hour listening to your baby beg you to pick her up and nurse her.  I'm glad you got DH to help, it makes all the difference.

I think we cut down to 3 BM feedings a day at around 10 or 11 months, and it kind of coincided with her starting to eat more solids.But those were tiny feedings (3 oz each) because I can't pump more than that. Kira was slow to warm up to solids, too.  Refused most solids til about 10 months, and it wasn't until I night weaned her that she really started to eat solids properly.

Keep us posted on how you get along.  Sleep training is incredibly hard, and I know I could never have done it without all the support from this site.  There are so many incredible, amazing women with good advice here - be sure to check out the Sleep board for info on PD if you haven't already.  I'll be happy to give you my input, too, but I'm not as confident with the whole sleep thing as some others here.  (Kira has yet to sleep through a whole night.)

[inoella]

Aylien - I needed those hugs today! And I appreciate your thots on the sleep training timing - I have thot that too. At least it's true for me if not for her.
She only had 1 NW!!! It lasted 1.5 hours    but DH was a champ! And the other great thing is she initially went from 6p.m.-4a.m. then back to sleep 5:30 - 6:45 - not bad!  So technically it was an EW I guess. She is extra clingy and needy these days so I'm spending lots of time on the couch and floor giving snuggles.
I'm a little confused about the nursing schedule for the day - and I"m wondering if she is too?  I think she must have such a strong nurse-to-sleep association that she seems to not ask to nurse until she's super tired. Or it could be that of all the BW things I have stuck to lately it's been nursing every 4 hours so she it used to that... Anyway, if I offer on schedule but before she's "exhausted" she will take it, but today after the a.m. nurse she never really asked. I made sure she had a snack before the a.m. nap and she did OK for that one. But the p.m. nap attempt was awful (also gave snack then)- 50 minutes of the worst crying I have ever heard. And she kept pulling at my shirt. I gave up after 50 min cuz it was 4 hours after her last feed and I thot maybe she really was hungry? But once I took her out of the room she busied herself with other things and by the time she started acting hungry (45 min. later - so nearly 5 hours after the mid-day feeding) it was time for an early dinner (since she needed an early BT again with no p.m. nap). So this is the second day of only 3 BFs - and she is eating some better but still so little compared to "everyone else"...  I'm still producing a lot of milk so I think 3 BF a day is good since I'm pretty sure she gets 5-6 oz. and that's just one side... If that's the case I'm guessing it's still keeping her very full, what do you think?
Sorry  - that got long...

[aylien]

Inoella- sorry, I've been away for a long weekend.  Only 1NW, and an EW at that - that is fantastic!  And it sounds like your DH is doing wonders to help, so good to hear.  My guess is the clinginess is due to the weaning process - from your posts it sounds like she is still a huge nurser, in general, not just for sleep.  I think you're right about her being confused about the changes in day BF sessions, especially since it's a change from what's been such a consistent thing for her whole life until now. 

How are things going now?  Has she adjusted any to the 3 day BF sessions?  Are you actually trying to wean a little during the day as well?  If yes, and it sounds like you have a great supply, so I'm wondering if you could pump and offer her a bottle of BM when she pulls at your shirt (if you're trying to wean).  That way, if she refuses the bottle you know it's because what she really wants is to nurse, not to eat.  Also, I wouldn't worry about how much she's eating compared to "everyone else".  For one, with your supply, it sounds like she probably is getting a lot of what she needs from you, even in just 3 sessions a day.  Also, I think the best gauge of whether she's getting enough is how her weight is coming along -- what does the doctor say?  I've always worried about Kira not getting enough because I have such a low supply AND she doesn't eat much compared to everyone else, but her weight gains have held steady and the pediatrician says she's plenty chubby, so I stopped worrying.  It's hard not to compare your baby to others, but I think everything with babies' growth and development is so individualized that you'll just drive yourself crazy if you start the comparision game.

Anyway, just my two cents.  Hope things are coming along well.

[momtokennedy]

I'm still with you and I think you're doing a great job! Sleep training and night weaning is brutally hard but you will both get through it. I did it at 8 mths and it was really tough for us because up to that point DD (13mths) coslept with us. the key is to stay consistent and stick with the process you have chosen. If you allow a little bit of wiggle room, the little ones will know it and sneak their way through! I would suggest that although it is hard don't give in once you have started ie: after 50 min, because then she'll just start crying for X amount of time because that's what you have taught her. I'm telling myself that too by the way because I have been toying with weaning altogether but then when she isn't settling in for a nap or has an EW I think "Screw it" it's easier to just BF her for 5 min! It's soooooo hard!

My DD is very clingy right now also. Just started daycare but try to take it as a complement! I'm still dealing with EW and BF to VERY sleepy but not quite ready to change. Reading your experiences is about as far as I've gotten and thinking about ways of an easier transition. I have read to try to change the routine first like nurse her BEFORE the bath etc so we are really away from BF to Sleep first. We'll see.

Anyway, keep up the good work!

[inoella]

Oh dear - I knew sooner or later I'd have to return to the scene of the crime and confess - I kinda gave up. 
Last week I was at the end of my rope and DD started taking 30 min. naps and then just one 30 min. nap - all day! Needless to say the NW got worse and I just felt like it wasn't right to try to tackle weaning when she isn't getting enough sleep.

I don't know what to think. Today she fell asleep in the car and I parked under a tree and opened the windows and she took a 1 hour 15 min. nap! then another 30 min. in afternoon and now it's after 7 p.m. and she's still going... Spirited and chronically OT is just about more than I can handle...

So, good luck to the rest of you - but I just can't do it right now...

[b_weezy22]

Since friday, I've been weaning my 10 month old son (cold turkey), pumping only when engorged. I got him used to the bottle (with breast milk only) for 1 full day. After that, I've been slowly adding little bits of formula to the breast milk. Yesterday, he suddenly realized that the bottles weren't pure with breastmilk or something and went on a strike. Took very little. Now he's doing ok, having taken bottles at 10:30pm, 3am, 8am, and now noon.

One problem I've encountered, though, is that each day I've woken up with really bad clogged ducts. I wake in the morning, pump a little, and still have a really hard sore spot on one side. So far I've been able to massage most of it out, but I end up having to have the baby nurse a little to get the milk to let down and release where it's been clogged. Is there any possible way to avoid nursing him and getting rid of the blockages still?

[LucysMommy]

just tagging along... I'm weaning my 14 month old VERY slowly.

[inoella]

hi lucysmommy - how are you tackling the weaning? after one failed attempt (see pp) my DD is napping ever so much better, so i'm thinking about tackling the day time nursing.

b_weezy22 - this is a pretty slow board - maybe you would get more help on the breastfeeding thread? wish i had advice but i've been going at it pretty slowly so I haven't had that trouble.

[LucysMommy]

I dropped her daytime feed a few days ago, so just feeding at wake up and bedtime.  By bedtime she is practically climbing up me wanting to bf.  I give her goats milk during the day, I try to get her to take about 8 oz.
I am torn with the weaning because I want to do the best thing for her, I enjoy breastfeeding and the closeness with my DD, but I also am feeling that I want more freedom to go away for the evening or even for a night or two. 

[inoella]

that's great that she took the daytime change so well! my dd still wants to bf before naps - even tho she doesn't fall asleep bfing. i know, bad habit...
i'm sure you've thot of this already, but just wondering if your dd takes goat milk during the day do you think she would take it at bt if you're out? or ebm in a bottle? for a while my dd would take the bottle from dh for bt but lately she has refused... going to try to get her used to it again this weekend.

[LucysMommy]

I haven't tried to give it to her yet... many people have told me that she probably will take it as long as I am not there.  I'll have to try it one of these days when DH is watching her.  I haven't been able to pump in many months, just don't get anything.

[inoella]

that's odd about pumping - i haven't done it in a while either & now i'm curious!
 i've heard the same thing about los taking the bottle when you're not there - they just seem to know!
i'm working on weaning dd from nursing before her naps - today i nursed a little early, did stories, went up stairs to see dh - then he took her into the room for a diaper change and sleep bag wd - she kept pointing to the rocking chair and then the door and whining and after he put her in the crib she fussed for 15 min. i feel bad but she was just complaining not crying and i do feel like this will help with the nw - after 12 months of feeding mostly on demand - even tho it was pretty routine - it's just a little tough to cut it out when i know she wants to. but i guess as long as i offer plenty of comfort in other ways she'll get used to it.

[LucysMommy]

Last night grandma put DD to bed, with a sippy cup of milk and all was well. :-)

When I was cutting out the before-nap feeds, I always made sure DD was good and full before I put her down, that way no chance of her crying out of hunger.  Have you tried to give a snack before nap?  I also offer DD a sippy cup of her goat's milk while we are in the rocking chair reading stories (where I used to nurse her before nap).  Sometimes she guzzles it, sometimes not interested. 

[inoella]

thanks again lucysmommy - i did just about that today. the first nap was only 30 min. after breakfast and i offered the sippy. the afternoon nap was more than hour after lunch so i bfed but then read stories, went upstairs to see the cat, changed diaper... so she was full but not nearly the same experience as nursing in the rocking chair in her sleep bag, iyswim?
wish i had advice about being gone - i think it's likely that your body will simply adjust as needed. pumping really isn't the same/as effective as nursing anyway - but i hope some of the other ladies have more experience to share.