Anyone Want To Talk About The 2-1 Transition? Thread #22

[trinity33]

Oh well don't know what happened at nursery today, asked them to do 20 min am nap and then pd for pm at at 12.30 and sleep as long as he liked, but they did the opposite! 

So wu 5.15
9.30-11.45 am
3.15-3.45 pm nap

Guess do a 7.30 bt and see what happens. He was looking tired by8 this morning so maybe it'll work out for best

[trinity33]

Hi ladies,

I couldn't try the 20 nap suggestion yesterday as we were out for the day and didn't think he would have an opportunity for long lunchtime nap so yesterday was

Wu 5.30
9.40-11.10 nap
3.00 tried to get him to have another nap but refused
5.45-6 fell asleep in buggy
7.30 bt

Today so far

5.30 wu
9.50 nap capped at 20 mins
1.00-2.30 nap, put him down at 12.35. He woke at 45 but resettled on his own, my feeling was he was ut... What do you think?

So, I'm not sure whether to go for normal bt at 7.30 or early 7 pm, what do you think?

Also do you think I should stick to the 20 min cn and pm nap straight after lunch for a few days, or do some adjustment. Also would you give a bottle before or after nap at this time.  He was really hungry when he woke at 2.30.

Thanks ladies 

[jingmommy]

I've been capping the am nap at 30mins followed by 3hr A time, and DD can take a decent 2hr pm nap!  Wow, the 3hr A time is really a magic!  Tks for Papaya's advice!!
But yesterday was a bit weird. Looks like this.
WU 7:15 (She cried out for mommy at this time, so I guess she woke up at 6:45am or 7am)
Nap 1 10:50am for 30mins (I put her down at 10:25, but she cried and cried and cried and didn't fall asleep till 10:50.  Could it be OT?)
Nap 2 2:25pm-4:10pm (Walked in to check and found her paci on the floor.  Not sure she couldn't put herself back to sleep because of the paci or this is a new sign of crying for longer A time.)
BT: 8pm (I put her down at 7:30pm, but she seemed UT and tossed over here and there.  Didn't fall asleep till 8pm).

So I'm going to see if she can still take 2hr pm nap today and keep the last A to BT at around 3hr45mins.  Any advice is welcome.

I'd also like to check with you ladies how long your LOs migrate the am nap from 30mins to 20mins?  And what's the sign?  Wake up earlier from pm nap?  How early? 

Tks ladies! ^^

Trinity, it seems a quite long day for your LO.  I'd go for an earlier BT, but I have no experience with 20mins nap yet.  So I think other ladies will have better ideas.

[trinity33]

Hiya, went for earlier bt.6.55heard him at 4.55 but think he went back to sleep til 5.20. so 10.25 sleep which is good to average for him.

[oliversmommy]

Kara,
I know it's been a few days, but you were right - I extended LO's 2nd A time from 3 hrs to 3 hrs 10 and got a 1.5 hr nap!  FINALLY - first long nap in over a week!  Thanks so much for your advice!!!  So the two days after that we got long AM/short PM naps; yesterday we got a 1 hr AM nap and a 1.25 hr PM nap (no capping and LO has been going down easy for all naps).  However LO is still waking up early (following 10-10.5 hr nights); and today we got a really early wu (5:25 am after only a 9.5 hr night).  I've also been hearing him cry out around 5 am the past few days which is new.  So I'm not sure if we are battling OT from a week of short naps, or if we are officially in the 2:1 transition.

I put him down at 9:25 this AM after 4 hrs A time (the past few days his first A time has been 3.75 hrs) so I'll probably get an OT nap; I'm planning to do a 3 hr 10 2nd A time and hope for a long PM nap.  I'm thinking with these EWs I should try a short AM/long PM nap routine, however I am REALLY nervous b/c LO has never consistently taken long naps, so I'm afraid we'll get a lot of days with 2 short naps.  (And EBT is usually hit or miss w/ him so I'm afraid our days will start earlier and earlier. . .)

Do you think I should just go for it and see what happens???  Okay, just checked the clock - he's been asleep for 35 min now - ugh I don't know what to do - wake him or let him sleep???  Okay, I'm sitting here and now it's been 40 min - I think I'm going to chicken out and let him sleep, although I'll probably pay for it tomorrow with another early wu.  If you think I should try short AM/long PM nap routine I need you to talk me into it!

[oliversmommy]

It's been an hour and he's still sleeping . . .

So should I cap the PM nap to limit his day sleep, or let him sleep to catch up from missed sleep from last night???

How do I know if his short nights/EWs are due to OT or the 2:1???

[trinity33]

Well done on getting a long nap Oliversmommy. The only way I ever got my LO to take a long afternoon nap was to cap his am. I spent so long trying to get a long am nap in the early days I was really reluctant to start capping it, but it did help with him take a good pm nap and therefore not be ot by bt.  It also meant he went from a 4.40 wu to a 5.30/5.45 wu for a couple of months - still a chronic ewaker, but hey a lot better than 4.40!  So I might not be the best person to persuade you ;-) but it really worked for us for a while.

I think we are running out a bit on that now but are trying dropping to 20 min am to preserve good pm and bring it early enough that he's not ut at bt. But it did work well for us for a while.

Good luck with whatever you decide - I'm sure Papaya or Kara will be along to give you more knowledgeable advice too :-)

JingMommy - Sorry for the short reply earlier - I was on my phone and LO was trying to bat it out of my hand! Yep is a really long day for him. Still trying to battle the ew....! He's been doing a 10/10.5 hour night for as long as I can remember though....well apart from a couple of weeks ago where we were doing pm naps too late and he had a couple of 9 hour ones! 

[jingmommy]

Just when I think we are about to have stable 30mins am nap and 2hr pm nap (which only last for 3 days), DD only took 50mis pm nap.   I though she'd be tired earlier with short pm nap and planned earlier BT at 7pm, but she fought quite a lot and played up and down in her crib.  Didn't fall asleep till 7:30pm and woke up once at 8:10pm.  Should be OT, right??? She woke up 6am today.  Not sure if all these mean she's ready for 20mins am nap.  Anyway, I'm going to give it a try today and see how it goes.

Trinity, right, so that's about the average night sleep he needs.  The early wake-up time is really a tough one to handle.  Looks like I'm heading to this area now.  Good luck to all of us!!

[trinity33]

Oops phone trouble with predictive text! Should read:


Our nursery suggested LO might be waking hungry as he has always been a hungry baby and is a big lad for 11 months. So last night we gave him a rusk before his bath and then 9 oz bottle before bed.

His naps weren't good yesterday:

9.45 20 mins (capped)
1.20 - 35 mins - he took a long time to settle for this one - hence the later than planned sleep time + possibly OT nap.
7.25 BT

BUT....He had the best night in months - no pre 12 pm nw! Heard him at 5.20  but went b2s til 6.30! So an 11 hour night - yeay! So is it down to a magic rusk? Or long afternoon A time, or just a fluke and mummy shouldn't get too excited??

[jingmommy]

Ah! I am totally lost again.  After 3 days of good 30mins am nap-3hr A time-2hr pm nap, DD cut her pm nap to 50mins and woke up earlier the next day.  So thought to revise the plan to 20mins am-2hr A time-hopefully 2hr pm nap today, but nanny through out the plan again and keep the 2nd A to 3hrs because she was having lunch?!    Turned out DD woke up within 30 mins and nanny resettled her to have 1hr20mins in total.  When I got home and saw the black circle under her eyes coming out already, I thought she' already OT and should give her earlier BT to recover the OT, but she fought for 40mins before she finally fell asleep. 
I am really upset about nanny's doing today and thinking to take one day off to do the 20mins am nap-2hr A-longer pm nap myself.  I'm not convinced that DD can handle 3hrs A after 20mins capped nap unless I see it myself.  I'm being a little bit extreme now.

[*Kara*]

Trinity - if it was a Baby MumMum brand rusk - it wasn't that... only about 8 calories in one rusk   As for the long quiet night - exhaustion   Crap naps and he just crashed hard, right into a deep sleep.

Hugs jingmommy - I would do 2.5 hrs after a 20 min CN... She likely fought BT as she was just so OT.

[oliversmommy]

Trinity - congrats on the long night and late wu!  FX it continues!   Wow, 4:30am wake-ups - you poor thing!  I think I would go insane.  Now a 5:40 am wu doesn't sound so bad!   Thanks for your feedback on the short AM/long PM nap routine - it's reassuring to know that it worked for you.  We get long naps so inconsistently here that it's hard to think about cutting the first nap short.  I like having 2 opportunities for a long nap every day . . . although I think we will eventually get to the point where we'll have to start that routine.  I also wonder if sometimes having a long AM nap and sometimes a long PM nap is confusing my LO - maybe he would be better off if he knew his long nap was always going to be in the PM.

DS ended up taking a 1 hr 40 min AM nap yesterday; I capped his PM nap to preserve BT and he slept over 10.5 hrs last night, waking up for the day at 6:10 am!  I was totally expecting another EW b/c of the long AM nap - he did cry out at 4:30 and 5:40 but stayed asleep until after 6, which was my goal. 

So today I gave him the same first A time as yesterday - 4 hrs - he played then fussed and fell asleep at 4 hr 15 A time and only slept for 35 min.  A few days ago I got a long PM nap after a 35 min AM nap on 3 hr 10 min second A time, so that was my plan for this afternoon.  However I lost track of time and put him down a little late, and he played then fussed and fell asleep after 3 hr 35 min A time.  So I thought great, another OT nap, but he slept for 1 hr 20 min!  He is so confusing!  I'm driving myself CRAZY trying to figure out these A times! 

Trinity and JingMommy - hang in there!  You gals are further along in this transition than we are, so I won't be much help, but it definitely helps me to read your posts to see where we are headed!

[jingmommy]

Oliversmommy, for my LO the short am long pm nap also helped her a lot to get rid of OT, NWs, and EWs.  I had double initially but then Papaya helped me figure out the right 2nd A time and we finally have longer pm nap!  Eh...the A time is really critical!  Now I cap the am nap at 20mins and 2nd A for 2.5hr which Kara suggested.  And it worked yesterday!  DD slept for 2hr10mins for pm.  I'm not sure if she woke up because of the poop or she just need that much.  Will see today's result.  What surprised me further is she STTN for 12hrs yesterday and I have to wake her up this morning.  She used to have 11hrs night sleep!  So I'm going to say the same thing to you.  Hang in there!  Bright future is waiting for you!
Well, hope this still works for DD today.  FX!  
I also continue to read the previous 2-1 transition threads to study the sign of dropping the 20mins am nap as a preparation cus I think this will happen pretty soon.

Kara, tks so much for your brilliant suggestion!

[trinity33]

Hiya

OliverMommy: lol you know it's bad when you think 5.30 was a good night! Hang in there with the A times. I've always found it really tricky to judge A time after an OT 35 min nap. How was your night?

Kara: yes probably right about it being more to do with crap naps rather than rusk, but I have decided to give him some supper of some description when we get home. As nursery do lunch at 4, so that's a long time until breakfast and he's always been a really hungry boy. He's been draining a 9oz bottle before bed each night for the last couple of weeks.
 
We've taken the plunge again on the one nap front again. So 1st nap after morning snack. Nursery have been putting him down about 10.30/45 and it's been taking him over half an hour to fall asleep - but he's just been playing and chatting in the crib rather than crying. He's then slept 2.15 hours the last 2 days. We haven't been able to cn or ebt. But his night sleep has been prettty good. I've heard him a few times in the early morning - but i'm pretty sure he's gone back to sleep as he hasn't got shouty until 6.30. So for example this morning I heard him at 4.55/5.20/5.45/6.15. I think the 6.15 was his proper wakeup one.

Just wish I could get back to sleep in between the wakeups rather than lieing there thinking - is he awake/has he gone back to sleep/if he is awkake how many hours night sleep has he had etc  DH thinks I'm insane!

Do you think we're heading in the right direction?

[rosiejones]

Hello! My LO is nearly 13 months now and we've been trying for a while to get from 2-1 naps. On days when we have had a good morning wake up and tried it shes done well and managed 1hr 50mins. I guess it will take a while for the 1 nap to extend longer or do some babies only seem to take approx 2 hours?
Also, is she ready for a longer A time before the 11.30 nap if she doesnt seem tired?

Thank you....