Gentle Weaning Plan

[BetsyAnh]

i have also added some more ideas to my first post....

jennifer- i agree with sandra, and think that if your husband can stick to a routine (pu/pd is my advice in this matter) and you both give it a real go, your little one might  be on his way to a better night's sleep- just explain to your husband that if your LO is going to cry ANYWAYS, atleast comfort him and let him know that he has to let his ds know that he hasn't done anything wrong, and for that reason really shouldn't be left to cry while he just reads a book. you mentioned he wanted to be involved in the bedtime routine, well, he's about to be thrown into the deepend! good luck!

[joaquinsmom]

I hope you all won't think I'm a quitter... 
Last night, I decided to go back to the method that helped us once before. It just seems like ds is getting more and more attached to the idea of nursing to sleep instead of learning to sleep on his own. I know this is probably my fault for not sticking to his bedtime every night, and not doing the routine consistently, but the holidays are just killing us here, and we need to get some results before jan 10th so sadly I am giving up the no crying thing...
Last night I bf and after like 10 tries of the gentle removal, I just decided no more. I sat with him and held him with his back to me and kind of rocked him and sang to him until he pretty much fell asleep. Then I put him in his crib, and he woke up, so I picked him up and walked around the room with him slowly, singing to him. He whined and pushed me away, and tried to look at every little thing in his room, until he finally got really really sleepy, almost completely asleep, and I put him in his crib. He opened his eyes a little, but after a few minutes of pat/sh he went back to sleep. He woke up a couple more times after that, but only needed pat/sh.
At around 1:30 he woke up and I bf. He woke up again at 3:30 and since he couldn't be hungry again I just walked with him again until he fell asleep and put him in his crib. And when he woke up at 5:30 dh brought him to our bed and I bf and he slept until around 7.
I know walking with him is probably another prop, but I think I can handle this one a little better that bf as a prop. I was really getting to the point they talk about in the pages of the book BetsyAnh posted. I was starting to resent my little precious and then hate myself for it  :oops:
This method worked for us pre-teething disaster, I had almost gotten to the point where I only had to walk with him for like a minute before I put him in his crib. So I will give it a shot.
Please don't think I am trying to discourage anyone from doing the no cry solution, it's just that for us, right now, it wasn't the best way. If we had had more time, or if it was another time of the year, it might have worked, who knows...
Thanks for all the great advice and good luck with your los!!!

[BetsyAnh]

jennifer- YOU ARE NOT A QUITTER! don't worry, the whole idea of this post is to help people find THEIR OWN way that best suits BOTH the parents and baby- just one peice of advice- i think that what you are doing is great especially becauese you said it worked for you once before.. the only thing i want to add is that i don't think your LO needs the first bf at 1:30 (unless you clearly see he is exhibiting hungary signals, or the walking/pat/shh is upsetting either of you too much) and that walking with him sometimes, and bf sometimes might not be as effective as just keeping him in his cot/your lap/your arms for EVERY waking- i think if you can stick to what you are doing to settle him, and keep it consistent with every waking, you will see results MUCH sooner- what do you think? good luck, and i hope that you will be seeing a good nights sleep by the new year!

[katie6579]

I'm going to jump in here too because I've been reading the book and following your posts occasionally. You ladies are dedicated! The holidays are difficult for sure, and dh's don't seem very helpful. Mine loves road trips, and ds is at an age where he dislikes the carseat; routines go out the window on the weekends.  :x I love the part in the book where she says "baby doesn't know what day it is and doesn't care"- too bad dh doesn't realize this. Anyway! We are (I am) attempting gentle removal with ds (he slowly but surely got addicted to the breast!) but I can't seem to get over the first phase. After a few weeks, he still seems unable to fall asleep any other way. Maybe I am being TOO gentle? I'm ok with slow progress, but I have to see some!! I'm also worried that the sixth month growth spurt is about to wreak havoc on the little progress we've made so far. Well trying to be brief and hoping this isn't a rhetorical question, but what do I do now? I'm stuck, even after those pages Betsy (nice idea BTW!) I feel like we will be stuck with 30 minute naps and sleep on the boob forever! And I feel like quitting too Jennifer, that's easy to relate to. It's so nice not hearing ds cry about it that I almost can't let him anymore!  :oops: Oh well. I got us into this mess. Any comments are very welcome. Best wishes to you all. 

[joaquinsmom]

Thanks BetsyAnh, I think you are totally right. If I bf sometimes but not others he will be very confused. So last night I made sure ds ate before we started the bedtime routine so I wouldn't worry that he was crying out of hunger.
I tried reading him a book while he was in his crib but he got all fussy so I took him out and started walking in his room with him and singing. He cried a little harder than last time, but I think less than 10 minutes later he was fast asleep  So I put him in his crib and left the room. I think he woke up a couple more times within the next hour, but all he needed was some pat/sh.
At 11:30 (just 30 minutes after I had gone to bed  :roll: ) he woke up again and wanted to bf. I knew he couldn't be hungry (although I still felt like the worst mother in the world) so I walked with him again, and it took less than 5 minutes to get him back to sleep. Did that again at 2:30 (I think). After that I felt so very guilty about not feeding him that I just looked at the clock and wished with all my heart that 5:00 would come so I could feed him!! (I know, it doesn't make any sense, but I figured that was a long enough strech of time for ds to go without eating). So at 4:45 he woke up again and dh brought him to our bed and he bf . But I did realize that he wasn't hungry the other times because it didn't take much for him to go back to sleep.
We'll see how tonight goes, but I think this is going to work for us (hope hope hope hope).

Katie, Good luck getting your lo to sleep better!! The problem with us and the gentle removal method was the timing I think. Because of the holidays we haven't been doing bedtime at the same time everyday, or even getting all our routine done (sometimes he falls asleep in the car on the way home). On top of that, I start school soon and ds and dh will have to get through bedtime on their own, so I couldn't keep nursing ds to sleep. We were making some progress with the gentle removal, the removals were a little easier, but I would recommend having something else as part of the routine, like reading a book or something so that when you take away the nursing he still has some other things left that remind him that it's bedtime. I didn't do that, so our whole routine was nursing to sleep  :roll:

So thanks for the support and good luck with your los!

[BetsyAnh]

katie- what are the removals like? it took me about a month to see progress, but i did, and only had to cuddle my LO upon most wakings... until that tooth decided to cut through! i'm back to square one at the moment, but i'v had one regression (tooth coming up) a few weeks back, and itdidn't seem to take TOO long to get back to where i was... as far as 30 min naps are concerned, the 'pantley' way to extend naps isn't working? what's happening when u try? i have actuallly been doin that before i read her book, and although it DID extend her naps, it wasn't until i saw progress at night (needing boob less for wakings) that my LO learned a LITTLE bit more how to sooth herself, and i no longer had to go in halfway through the nap and bf her.. again, until the tooth came (FINALLY!!!!! almost 10 months.. been teething for 4.. ugh!)

jennifer- i sounds like, and i hope that things will be gettin easier for you and crying times shorter- back when i was seeing progresss with my LO, it seemed that the 5am waking wasn't going w/out a bf with mine as well. see how it goes for you, and if he begins sleeping longer, maybe try eliminating that one in a few weeks too?

sandra & frosty- how are things going with you?

good luck everyone- pleasant dreams!

[Frosty]

It's interesting how everyone seems to go through things at the same time.  Although I am relatively new to Pantley's method (having been trying to implement it purely from your advice), we have also taken a break from it for the past few days.

Up until now my dh has been following my lead on trying to solve these problems.  I had a minor meltdown Wednesday as I think the pressure of finding a solution got to me. So we took the last few days to regroup, taking whatever measures were necessary for us both to get some sleep. We also bought Pantley's book and dh is also reading it so we can come up with a plan together.  This is important for us - we live in Canada and luckily have a system where parents can take up to a year off of work to be with a new baby.  DH has just started his portion of the leave and will be at home with ds for the next seven months (and I am back to work in the new year after five months off).

So we are starting from scratch.  Starting tonight, an earlier bedtime (8 versus 9) and a more stringent awake time (7 am versus whenever we can get him to sleep until).  We are also working on naps (as ds is a short napper).  Later in the week, we will recommence the Pantley Pull Out to start to rid him of the soother.

I can completely understand the need to go back to what works - especially this time of year. One thing that shocked my husband was the statistic in Pantlyey's book on success rates.  42% of her test cases achieved success (defined as sleeping for five hour stretches) in ten days; 53% in twenty days; 92% in sixty days. Although we all hope for the best, this could be a long haul!

[DakotasMama]

Hi there!  I'm on night 2 of Phase 1 with Pantleys Gentle Removal method and have some questions.  I have an 8 month old who I just got back to her own crib after co-sleeping for 3 weeks ( me needing sleep which turned into a habit that wasn't at all working as she woke every few hours).  Anyway, I have been nursing her when she wakes in my bed and than putting her back in her crib but that has not been working well so now I am nursing her in her rocking chair and putting her back in her crib.  She generally goes down for naps and bed without too much of a fuss on her own but the middle of the night is different, especially between 1 and 3 am.  After reading the info on gentle removal and the No crying sleep solution I have some questions.  After the removal (of the breast works) and I put her back to bed, she woke and I tried pu/pd for 45 mins and pat/shh but she didn't settle so I eventually picked her up and left the room for 10 minutes and she fell asleep in my arms.  The posting says to start the whole process all over again, from the bf or just the comforting?  I also did a dream feed for the first time before bed and her schedule (she wakes like clockwork) seemed to get thrown off a bit.  Anyone try this at 8 months?  Also, after I put her down after the gentle removal, do I leave the room and let her cry at all?  She would seem to almost settle and than look up at me and start all over again, not into a full cry, just an unsettled cry.  I am at the last resort, not wanting to let her cry it out (as we have already been through this and as much as it worked, it sucked!)  Any advice would be more than appreciated.  Thanks.
Dakota's sleep deprived MOM!

[katie6579]

katie- what are the removals like?

They are very very gentle, as in when the sucking is slow and relaxed then I carefully pull him off, but I think I'm still letting him fall asleep on the boob, it's so hard to tell that fine line between falling asleep and being asleep. He is very touchy so if I move him the wrong way or something those eyes pop open and we have to start over. 

as far as 30 min naps are concerned, the 'pantley' way to extend naps isn't working? what's happening when u try?

he wakes up pretty regularly after 30 min... I've tried staying until he wakes, I've tried going back in, and the second he stirs, I put a boob in his mouth. After about 10-15 min of that, he'll go back to sleep but for no more than 10 min.  :?
I'm doing the first 10-day log right now. He did have a nearly 2-hour nap yesterday, yay!! But i don't know why or how to replicate that. He still wakes 1-3 times at night, that has improved greatly since he's been in his crib, but I'm still bf-ing him back to sleep mostly and I'm wiped out.

Dakota's mom- you are so not alone. We are in phase 1 as well. (We had the same co-sleeping experience.) My understanding of the book is that there doesn't have to be any crying involved. Once she starts crying, you should go back to the previous phase, but since you're still on phase 1, just do whatever you were doing before to stop it. (obviously not CIO though...) Then do gentle removal again.

Isn't this fun? 

[costinhas]

Hi Ladies!

Was I the only one that couldn’t access to this site the last days?! :shock: I could’t accede the forums last week and I also didn’t get any information about your posts in my email account! I’ve just received advertisements to Tracy’s new book... :x  So I’m sorry for disappearing but it wasn’t my fault!

About me and my dd... well what can I say... we lost it for a tooth! In my last posts she was going through a teething phase that ended with flu. If you add xmas preps and your tiredness from this all what do you get?! Not good night sleep for sure!

Well I also made a few changes to our routine. As I want to end bf as gently as possible so I decided to stop night bf. I took dd’s crib to our room so it would be easier to get to her and because it’s winter I don’t have to get out to the cold hallway.

But how would I convince dd that she couldn’t bf during night?!  :roll: First I tried to tell her that when it was dark I couldn’t bf her. That didn’t work because at 6am she is hungry and it’s still dark so I needed to bf and that confused her. So one night I got the answer! First the schedule:

Bedtime it’s between 7 and 8pm (still bf with gentle removal).  0am (first waking) but it’s just pat/shh. 3 or 4am (second waking) instead of bf I take her to my lap and just sat with her in my bed, talking and cuddling her. When she asks to bf I say why I can’t and give her some water instead. She eventually goes back to sleep but this can take between 15 minutes to 1 hour! She will wake up again around 6 and then I bf her immediately. Wake up time around 8:15

 :idea: The excuse that I use is this: she usually sees cartoons when she wakes in the morning while my dh dresses himself and the channel as a panda bear as a mascot. During night there are no cartoons so it’s just a still image of the panda bear. When she wakes up and asks to bf I turn on the tv and say to her “see? Panda is sleeping so I can’t bf you” believe it or not that works! At 5am the cartoons start again so when she wakes up around 6 I show her again and say “see? Panda woke up so mummy will bf”. The solution may not be perfect but works!

I won’t make this any longer.

Merry Christmas everyone!

[DakotasMama]

Hello, Merry Christmas!
Well, I just ordered the NO Crying Sleep Solution and waiting for it to come in the mail.  Things seem to be going better, 3 times a night now, using the gentle removal at each feed, and she goes back in her crib awake and puts herself back to sleep.  In the book, does it say to target one feeding at a time with the gentle removal or all at once?  I've been given some advice that I may have to pu/pd for each waking as she is 8 months old and probaly getting up out of habit but I am really hoping to avoid that.  I take care of all the sleeping stuff in my house as I am a stay at home Mom so that will be alot to do on my own but we'll see, it may come down to that if this removal plan doesn't work.  Hope you are all getting lots of sleep with the holidays and all!
Sherri-Lee

[BetsyAnh]

i haven't gotten anything either, and just wanted to wish everyone happy holidays, and new year!

sandra- so glad to hear everything is going fairly smooth for you, and i hope you can end the with the slow weaning of bf from nighttime!

dakotasmom- in response to your last post, you are to do it at every waking (naps too if you can- if too much for you LO and naps are getting erratic and/or shorter, keep doing what you originaly did) and if she doesn't need a bf and you can get her down with just a cuddle (phase 2, i think.. little hazy n tired) then try that- you're one step closer that way!

short n sweet (for once) goin to bed- another tooth tryin to come up, and am TOO tired!!

sweet dreams everyone!

[DakotasMama]

Hey there Mommies!
My 8 1/2 month old is teething, she already has her bottom 2 but I think she is actually cutting her eye teeth, they are hurting her alot more than the first 2.  Do I continue with pu/pd even though she is in this much pain?  Also, why I am having so much trouble putting her down to sleep and everyone else seems to be able to do it so much quicker (my husband, her grandparents).  Anyone else having trouble with this?  We've been up LOTS, every few hours since she's been cutting, poor little girl.  Hope your little ones are sleeping.
Dakota's Mom

[BetsyAnh]

dakota's mom- i think that during the teething (or colds, separation anxiety, etc) you should give as much comfort as needed without too much upset to make it easier for your baby to get through and understand- once the 'hiccough' has passed, go back to original method and it shouldn't take too long to get back on track.  if you continue w/ pupd, why not make the pickups a little bit longer for extra comfort and decrease the time after the teeth have cut? might make things less stressful for both of you    good luck- i''m in same boat at the moment!

[DakotasMama]

Thanks for your support.  Wow, it seems now that the middle of the night has gotten worse, I hope I don't have to start pu/pd after feeding her at night as she was more than happy to go back to her crib after each feeding but since doing pu/pd with her for her naps, I don't know.  Fun, fun!  Well, hope you have a happy new year.
Sherri-Lee
Dakota's Mom