1-0 no idea need help

[Straffles]

Kcal pool, you said capping further will make it worse if he's ot from too short a nap ie if I cut to 1hr erroneously, right?

But everyone is saying stay where I am for a week. That sounds like a plan. Even though my partner says no out him to bed at 6.45 then stay with that for a week.

You say it just gets worse? Can it get wirse than 8hr45 nights??

X

[mycatmonet]

Still holding your hand xx I don't think a set 6.45pm pd is unreasonable. We have a set 7pm bt, regardless of wu. Sometimes dd is asleep immediately, sometimes it takes up to 30min to go to sleep. Infrequently up to an hour! But she is happy and quiet which makes all the difference.

Hugs straffles, you must be exhausted.  Can you get your partner to handle any nws at all to give you a break and a longer stretch of uninterrupted sleep?

[creations]

First off - many hugs xx  It's super hard for you, you're tired. I know.

Sunday 9th November
Wu 6.37 - Sleep 1.55-3.55 - Bt 7.20 - Nws 9.15; 5.05, awake 5.15
Night length 9hrs 55

I've had a look at all your times.  Can you clarify this day. Is this a typo or did he have a 2hr nap?

PS I;m really worried it IS possible I capped too early to the 1hr nap, and that those shorter nights meant OT not UT. At the same time, he'd been sleeping1hr 15 nap for almost 2 months and every few days did a 9 hour night.

Try not to worry.  What's done is done whether 'right' or 'wrong'. No matter what happened or what time he had a nap or how long his night the point is you are doing the best you can do. These LOs are hard to figure out and sometimes we just have to try something and see. I want to try to help you feel better by telling you that when I gave my DS a NND (on advice when our night had dropped to less than 9hrs and I really really had to do something to try to help him) it was only a one off, I had no intention of it being every day, the plan was one NND per week.  The first week after no nap he ran across a car park, didn't hold my hand, didn't stop when I shouted him - he had NEVER done this before. He was SO tired he could not control himself and was incapable of remembering normal rules and safety.  The second week he was just standing still and fell, his legs crumpled beneath him (about 4pm, no where near BT) and he hit his head on the bookshelf. Over a year later he still has a scar on his head - how bad do I feel??? Wracked with guilt every time I see that scar, but beyond the guilt I know deep down I was doing my best, I was trying to help him.  From there on we no longer did NNDs regardless of any advice given.  This is what we mean when we say only you are there with your LO, advice may (and does) vary, as hard as it is try to listen to your instinct, and know you are doing your best no matter what.

I agree with pps that it is best to pick a plan and keep going for a week (or even longer) to see results, that might be the 45 min nap and early or regular BT or your gut might be telling you this is not the way.

you can do a nap:

1. Either at the time you are currently doing in nap - but cutting it shorter like some above have suggested. This should be a bit like a CN and will help you get through to BT at a reasonable time: or

2. Make the nap later and keep it at full length, and make BT later. You can make this shift slowly or quickly, as some have suggested.

Personally given that you are dealing with early wakings, I would want to go for option two, as keeping the nap at the earlier time is likely to perpetuate EWs. I would always rather deal with a later BT than an earlier morning,

I also prefer option 2.  A later nap may help with the EW, it may also allow him to be tired enough for a longer nap so overall he sleeps better even though nights are shorter. After a more restful nap he will be less OT for his night sleep.

I haven't mentioned that 90% of the time on waking from a 1hr nap, Benji has tantrumed/cried for anything from 10 mins to 30 mins. Today most of the afternoon. Was happier by 5pm.

Lots of LOs cope with the capped nap, lots are grumpy and you'll see many examples of LOs pacified with cuddles, snack, TV etc and recover relatively well, well enough for parents to be happy this is the right route. Mine was awful on a capped nap, really awful, like the world was coming to an end and he stayed miserable until 1hr before BT.  Again this is where you need to try to listen to your gut. Do you feel from his behaviour/mood that capped naps are acceptable or that it's too too hard for him? What's your feeling on it?

FWIW too, looking at all your times he seems to be getting 11-12 hrs sleep in 24 which is fine, it's just that he is disturbed in his sleep so not fully rested.

[mycatmonet]

Just a thought straffles and pardon me if I am ignorant here, but have you seen a paed to rule out food allergies and maybe check that any behavioural issues (you mention hitting, tantrums etc) are all just developmental or ot related? I only say this because my cousin's kid had and has issues relating to his diet and he reacted to certain foods/components of food. His behavior (and this includes sleep) improved when taking his dietary needs into consideration. Xx

[becj86]

Hi

If you want to, you could go to what you were doing before all the changes were made. I think that was 1:15nap and 6:45 PD for BT. Anyway, whatever it was, do that for a week. (Or knowing Benji, 2 weeks) You should then see either that it's still working and the changes were chasing improvement when there was just a blip in the routine or you'll see something with which to make a change. It has the benefit of being something you're both used to, so not so stressful for you.

Agree with Creations too, sleep totals in the main are fine.

[Straffles]

Creations, thank you - that was a typo, just a 1 hr nap.

My sense was that sleep totals are less than 11hr on a fairly regular basis...

I don't like that second scenario with the later nap so much as you two! I guess befcasue we are currently at one time and think we should now stay with it.

Mind you, advice has been to get to NNDs from my friend. She thinlks naps are no longer the way to go.

I thought the waking from naps miserable was to do wtih being woken in the middle of a cycle. Until today's 45min one. I need to see what happens a second time I guess

Got to sleep now but: Tomorrow?!?!

6.45 BT cd make him seriously OT I think. The last time I did 45 min nap and 6.45 pd, he slept 8.10-5am

[Straffles]

Got our first nw at 10.15

Doesn't bode well and he's not settling easily even this early.

[kaipooi]

Oh Straffles, since today was with a 45min nap, then run with it for a week. Consistency over anything else now, this would be my advice.

Now from DS history, even horrendously OT, he does not go less than 8hr30min at the moment.So, perhaps you are right, it can't get worse than 8hr45min with your DS. Now, this is just to let you know how I deallt with his last 8hr30min night 3 weeks ago,

WU: 7:30
Nap: 15:00 - 17:00
BT: 00:30 (we were at a wedding banquet)

WU: 9:00
Nap: 15:00 - 18:00 (much shorter morning A time, had to wake him from nap!)
BT: 21:20

WU: 8:20
He recovered with the 3hr nap and 11hr night. We are doing option 2 at the moment. That is, late but full nap and shorter night. I don't know if this gets us the most total sleep but we are in a predictable OT/UT loop. Kinda like predictable chaos he does 3-4 shorts nights (9.5 - 10.5hr) and then a longer night (10.5 - 11hr). His naps are between 1.5 - 2hr. I will keep doing this until I can make a better guess at his nap length and start capping. I tried capping to 1hr15 a couple of weeks ago and it still gave short nights. So I figured he might as well have a full nap at least the sleep total is higher!

We have always stuck to a 9:00 put down in cot though. So we have kind set BT. This is what our routine look like with option 2.

WU: anything from 7:00 - 8:30
Nap: anytime from 14:30 - 15:00. Wakes between 16:30 - 17:00
BT: put down at 21:00, asleep from 21:15 - 21:45

Again, my advise would be to stick to what you are doing. Cos consistency is really more important now. If one needs to troubleshoot a problem, one needs to have a place to start. So let's start with 45min nap. I put our routine down just for you to have a look.

[Buttonbobs]

More hugs honey.

I don't want to swamp you with more advice about timings of things, but this statement you made really stuck out at me. It may well be the right thing for your friend's LO, but not all LOs are the same, so like creations and others have said, we can be here and support you, but you are there and you know Benji, and can watch him and follow your mummy instinct. we can make suggestions, but you need to trust yourself. You are doing a fab job lovely, listen to your gut

Xxx

[Straffles]

Hi everyone.

I decided to stick with 45 min nap from 1.45 with 6.30pd for bt.

Decided to stick with it for at least a week.

The problem is a 45 minute tantrum on waking. Awful. And I feel like it's my fault. He is never like that.

I think we will try again tomorrow but idiots the same again, I feel like it's almost child abuse, he's so confused and distressed yk?

So I need to think about my other options.

Not sure what they wd be given I don't want to keep messing his routine up all the time. Maybe that's what's causing the distress?

[Buttonbobs]

Hey honey, here with you, I think you've made the right decision to stick with it. After a week or two if it's still not working for you both we can look at something else. Can you keep posting how it goes so we can review after the week is up (I.e. Posting your EAS each day)?

Sometimes this behaviour on WU from a capped nap can just be a LO getting used to the change, so let's give him a chance to get used to it if it doesn't work and doesn't suit you both then we can reassess after the week.

Hugs xxx

[creations]

Stopping by with a hug today x

[Straffles]

Thank you for your continued support, thank you.

The tantruming lasted 45 mins. He was happy all the rest of the afternoon. Still did not settle easily at BT. BT 7.10.

I will keep posting, most definitely.

Off to sleep myself now. BT 8.10

[creations]

Sweet dreams Straffles x

[jessmum46]

Well done for sticking with it, sleep well hun x