I'm unsure can someone take a look?

[babyrose]

Morning, after such a terrible afternoon yesterday with hardly any sleep an early b/time was needed! Everyone was upset. They both had a very disturbed sleep. I fed lewis just after 1am as I know Leo would wu first this morning, which he did just before 6 but easily went back to sleep and woke up at 7:30. I changed both their nappies and left them at 8:15 upstairs and went back up at 8:25 and they were both sleeping. So maybe I will start off with 50 mins and just try and extend that time.

[creations]

Morning

It is a very short first A time isn't it?
Two things pop  in my head
- that some LOs do just like a short first A and do well on it, although it is quite short for age maybe it is what they need, with the other A times being longer
alternatively
- that they are both trying to get a longer night, in effect even the 7.30 E is a NF for them despite us all thinking that 7.30 is a very reasonable time to start the day. If this is the case I wonder if an earlier BT would be helpful, it would bring the 7.30 E earlier which then makes it more of a NF and perhaps less comfortable for you...but then it makes their WU time (still around 7.30) a proper start to the day, with them being more well rested and ready to 'do' something.  the result could be a longer first A (in effect it would be the current second A if that makes sense).

Just throwing ideas out there to see what you think, maybe trigger some further ideas etc.

Hope you have a good day xx

[babyrose]

Yes that's makes sense to me, I think from what I've been doing is a b/time of 7/7:30 perhaps this Is a bit late for them?

Super short A times for these guys, Leo slept for a whole 2hrs with I think 2 dummy re plugs and not hysterical for a change. Lewis slept ok awake I think for a bit longer than sleeping. Hoping it will be a bit more of a settled day for them both now I'm understanding sleep and awake times a bit better!

[creations]

How about 7pm BT at the latest for now and reassess in a few days?

Great nap for Leo
I really don't know how you manage the A times and S times (or E times for that matter) with two boys, but you are doing amazingly well.  I really admire you 

[babyrose]

Aww thanks  They keep me on my toes! I just try juggle things about as much I can really, sometimes it can get a bit mad

So with their short A times it's pretty much looking like 50-60 then a 2 hour nap which I have to wake them from, but at least it's a starting point and u think the first A should be longer? (correct me if I'm wrong) 7pm sounds a good time to me.

[creations]

If the first A being shorter (whether treated as the first A or treated as NF) works then do that - yes it looks like 50-60mins and a 2hr nap.
Then a longer A more like 1hr 15 because I think you had some 1hr 15 and 1hr 30.  It may be that 1hr 30 would be too much if you cap the nap at 2hr, see what you think from their cues if possible.

The only thing is that, just now, if they keep doing 2 hr naps through the day you run into 3hrlys E and some difficulty with when BT comes, eg:

NF or WU/E 7.30
50 min (either dim light and straight back to bed or light on if counting as first A)
S 8.20 - 10.20 (2hr)
E 10.30 (only 3hr E but this helps to keep the rest of the day on track)
A 1hr 15
S 11.35 - 1.35 (2hr)
E 2.30 (careful not to feed to sleep)
A 1hr 15
S 2.50 - 4.50 (2hr)
E 5.30 (again 3hr E)
A 1hr 15
S 6.05 () CN or EBT

You might need to wing it a bit and judge based on nap lengths and where you get up to in the day whilst a routine settles into place.
Considering they like to sleep I'd see no harm in a 6 or 6.30 BT so long as they get enough E times, yk?

[Buttonbobs]

This sounds like a good idea. I don't know how you do it either, but you seem to be keeping on top of their different needs really well lovely

Xx

[babyrose]

Yes I see swym about the times, eating etc. maybe just see how things go and see how I can juggle things about for them running into any problems.

But yesterday was so good in the morning but went a bit rubbish in the afternoon.

Leo

07:30 wu (he fed at 6:30 (6oz and went back to sleep until 7:30)
08:20 sleep (2hrs)
10:30 feed (6oz)
11:20 sleep 2hrs 10)
13:30 (7oz) early as we were going out
14:00 sleep about an he or so in the car and out and about
17:00 sleep maybe 30 mins
18:00 feed (4oz)
18:30 sleep
Nw's 02:45 (7oz) wu 07:00 happy!

Lewis
0730 wu (fed earlier that morning 6:10)
08:20 sleep 1:55
10:15 feed (7oz)
11:05 sleep (2hrs)
13:15 feed (4oz going out early feed)
14:00 (2hrs)
17:50 feed (7oz)
18:30 sleep
Nw's 02:45 wu this morning 07:15 happy!

As you were saying in your last post b/times are a bit off but maybe as the the A times get extended maybe b/time will be early for a while. The nw's are back what they used to be before and they 12 didn't happen last night either, so perhaps a short A time in the morning is what they need maybe.

[creations]

Glad you had a good morning! Yes it really looks like those short A times are working!

I wonder though, how were they in the afternoon, you can't help being out and about that's not what I mean, but they both had a long A time in there (or typo?).
Leo - A from 3pm to 5pm?? 2hr?
Lewis - A from 4pm to 6.30pm?? 2.5hr?

I wonder if it's possible that these two will always like short A's in the day and long A to BT?  It will be interesting to see as they get older hey?

[babyrose]

Yes we were out from just before 2 til 4 when we got home, afternoons during the wk are tough as ds gets home from nursery and df leaves for work. I really didn't want those long A times. Oh they were both distraught! I beginning to think they can't handle long A times any time of the day, I'm going to have a look at the way today is heading and see what will happen for this afternoons nap and b/time.

[babyrose]

This is what I came up with but includes longer sleeping times.

07:00 wu & feed
8:00 sleep 2.5 hrs
11:00 eat
12:00 sleep 2.5
15:00 eat
15:30 sleep 2.5
18:30 eat
19:00 bed

0715 wu & feed
08:00 sleep 2.5
11:15 eat
11:45 sleep 2.5
15:00 eat
15:15 sleep
19:00 eat
19:15 bed

What do you think? I have no idea how what this will result in.

[creations]

Oh they were both distraught!

Oh I'm sorry to hear that   Do keep reminding yourself you are doing the very best you can, you are putting in so much care, attention and effort with them, they know that even when they are crying.

afternoons during the wk are tough as ds gets home from nursery and df leaves for work.

Very hard.  It looks like your planned EASY helps to avoid this difficult period of the day so it looks in theory to be a great idea! My only concern is that if you don't get the full 2.5hrs the day gets thrown off, but that can happen with any LO and any EASY can't it.

I think it's worth giving it a go anyway - see how it pans out.  You know we are here to share ideas and hold your hand whilst you try it xx

[babyrose]

Thanks you have been a great help Hopefully things will work out but as you say it doesn't always workout the way you expect but it's definitely worth a try. Afternoons are tough but I always manage it somehow.

And I'm sure I will be back at some point Will let you know in a few days how things are going.
Thanks really appreciate it. Xx

[babyrose]

Hi, just a an update on their progress. a time is 1hr 15 just now and they are little unsettled to begin with but they settle into the sleep eventually. Nights have been quite good, they were unsettled again to begin with but they slept through when I woke them for a feed at 5am and wu  was later which was quite nice! I think we may be able to push them to a longer A time soon, hopefully that will help me not rushing around so much.

Just wondering if we were to do a cat nap how late/long to let them sleep?

[creations]

Good to hear things have settled a little.
Do you mean a CN to push BT later?
What does the day look like now?