How long does lo's nap schedule last before it changes again?

[creations]

It looks like the earlier nap is because he's waking earlier in the morning. If he was awake at 6.30/7am then it makes sense he wants his nap earlier.  If he wakes at 7.30 he's good for the 12.15 nap.  I would really try to get to 12.15/12.30 to discourage the earlier waking.  Waking earlier is something LOs do when their first nap comes to early for them. Although your LO is an angel and does nap really well it seems he is quite sensitive to having the right first A time to ensure he doesn't start to wake earlier and earlier.
So, the thing is when you give an earlier nap it kind of reinforces to him that it's ok to wake earlier and can cause a cycle of early WU, early nap, and so on.
Try to breath through the unpredictability and push forward tomorrow. You'll get back on track

[centrestage88]

thanks for encouragement creations.
I'm hanging on. =)
he napped funny again today.

WU: 730am ( I woke him up)
he was sleepy at 1120am on the boob but i kept him up.
Nap 1: 1230-120pm ( woke up crying)

Sigh..why are babies so lovable yet so unpredictable.

[centrestage88]

Dear Creations
He fell asleep on the boob at 1120am today. I think he woke up early( guessing 645-7am? ) for the past two days. The thing is, I put him down for his nap at 1230pm so I don't understand why he is waking up earlier in the morning. He also wakes up after his nap crying and the nap doesnt last more than 1.5hrs. Do you have a possible explanation why?

At night, I put him down at 730pm and I don't check to see what time he sleeps. He doesn't protest so I assume that he sleeps at 730pm.

Day 1:730am ( I whu)
nap 1: 1230-120pm ( down happy, woke up crying)
nap 2: 430-515 ( carrier. capped. we were out)
bedtime: 730pm
1 night feed

yesterday
Wu: 645-7? ( i think i checked him at 7am and he was awake.)
nap 1: 1230-145pm ( down happy, woke up crying)
nap 2: 4:50-515pm ( carrier)
bedtime: 730pm

today:
WU: 645 am? ( I checked him at 715am and he was awake)
nap 1: 1130am- ( totally fell asleep on the boob and refused to wake up)

What should I do? I'm feeling quite lost.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Is he just crying while waking and then in a good mood after that? Or does he continue to be upset? Tbh if he is just unhappy right at wake up and ten finenI would not try to read too much into it so long as everything else is ticking along okay (nights going well?). I for one am horrid when I wake, no matter how well I slept!

Is he getting active at all? Crawling etc? My only other thought is if he is falling asleep at 11:30 he may be a bit ot or os due to other factors. I am much more of a winger with A times and naps so I never feel like I can give good advice regarding routine!

[centrestage88]

Thanks masynspencerelliotte,
Recently, He cries when he wakes up from his naps, but he becomes happy after some carrying and cuddling. The thing is, he usually wakes up happy from his naps ( when they are long) and will roll around in his cot on his own for up to 45 mins.

He's just started being able to sit up on his own so perhaps that may be a factor in him getting OT.

I wIll try to not get too anxious over his sleep and try to put him to nap at 1230pm again tomorrow.

[creations]

Lots of things can make him tired earlier than he 'should' be.  My guess would be some teething or developmental leaps or possibly that he has woken far too early in the morning, making him tired for his nap earlier.
On those naps where he wakes up before the 2hrs and he is crying my guess is he was UT for the nap and due to this has not transitioned into the next sleep cycle, however he cries because he is still tired.  This is not a strict science honey, and I cannot guarantee this is the reason but I did experience this with my own DS.  Most of the advice was to nap mine earlier because he sounded OT (waking crying rather than waking happy because often UT naps are happy wake ups) but I'd had one person think the opposite at some point and judging from my LOs history of liking a long first A time it never made sense to me to put him down for nap earlier...what worked was later, more tired, slept longer, was refreshed and woke happy again.

Sorry my response is not so well worded, I'm very short on time today, hope it makes sense.
I would continue to push that nap later, 12.30 and it's only a hunch but if you can get to 12.30 for a day or 2 and he does a proper 2hr nap like he used to then I would add another 5-10 mins on the next day.
I do think he is moving towards dropping to one nap, not this week perhaps, but his CN in the afternoon could be having an effect on reducing night length and he wakes earlier then tired earlier and can't get to his proper nap time...and another thought is that because he knows he is getting the CN later on he is perhaps not staying asleep for a proper full nap when he is supposed to.

another thing. If you get a good nap, 2hr, please try not to CN him too long. Can you reduce to 15 mins or 10 mins rather than 25-45. I know the temptation is to let him sleep because he lost sleep on his main nap but a long CN can be effecting the night and morning WU time.
sorry this is so jumbled!!
xxxx

[centrestage88]

Sorry my response is not so well worded, I'm very short on time today, hope it makes sense.

another thing. If you get a good nap, 2hr, please try not to CN him too long. Can you reduce to 15 mins or 10 mins rather than 25-45. I know the temptation is to let him sleep because he lost sleep on his main nap but a long CN can be effecting the night and morning WU time.
sorry this is so jumbled!!
xxxx

Dear creations
Thanks for taking the time to write even though you are rushing for time. I really appreciate it.

Do I keep his catnap v short even if his main nap is short? Like today, I put him down at 1230pm but he woke up at 145pm. (1hr 15 mins) So should catnap for today be 5-515pm?

His morning wake up and first nap time is getting a bit strange. He fell asleep on the boob yesterday at 1130am but it wasn't unexpected as he woke up early. But he woke up 730am today but fell asleep at the boob at 1120am. I kept him awake( he was miserable initially but perked up soon), put him down happy at 1230pm and he woke up at 115pm crying lightly. 
He started sitting up on his own yesterday and today is beginning to pull at the cot railings so perhaps it's a developmental change.

Yesterday:
Wu: 645 am
Nap1: 1130-115pm (fell asleep on the boob)
Nap 2: 445-515pm

Today:
Wu: 730am ( on his own)
Nap 1: 1230-115pm ( woke up crying)

I will continue to work at putting him down at 1230pm.

Thanks!

[creations]

Do I keep his catnap v short even if his main nap is short? Like today, I put him down at 1230pm but he woke up at 145pm. (1hr 15 mins) So should catnap for today be 5-515pm?

Yes I think so.  I am very aware of how young your LO still is and in part in makes me cautious to reduce is day sleep but if I put aside his age and look more at his sleep pattern it feels like the afternoon CN is getting in the way of his full night and full nap.  Or even that the micro nap when he nods on the breast at 11.20 is compromising his proper nap.
Heidi I wonder if you have any thoughts on this?

Just thinking out loud here - I wonder how things would be if we let him have that little CN at 11.30 (or 11.20am whenever the feed is where he nods off) and then moved his proper nap much later, so no CN at 5pm?
It is not something I am familiar with and the timings would be a bit of a guess but as a starting suggestion maybe something like:
"the 10 min CN routine"
WU 6.30/7.30 (not capped just he seems to be varying WU time)
(A roughly 4hr)
CN 11.20 -11.30 (10 mins enough?)
(A roughly 2.5hr)
Nap (1.5-2hrs) 2.00 - 3.30/4.00 (or perhaps 1.30 is better??)
(A roughly 4hr)
BT 7.30

another option would be to look at a more standard routine for 8-9 months something like:
"the 3.5hr A routine"
WU 6.30 (capped, you would need to start the day at this time)
A 3.5
nap 10.00 - 10.30 (30 min capped) (the 11/11.20 feed then comes after nap and you don't need to worry about him being hungry as he is only going to sleep 30 mins and not miss a feed)
A 3.5
nap 2.00 - 3.30 (1.5hr restorative sleep)
A 3.5
BT 7.30 (allows 11hr night instead of 12)

I've just given them names so we can refer to them more easily.
Either of you have any thoughts on these suggestions? Any gut instinct?

[centrestage88]

Dear Creations

Thanks for the suggested routines. They make sense but I'm very hesitant to try them as its such a big change in routine. Do you think trying to get him to continue napping at 1230pm will work out?

He's sleeping funny. Went to bed very tired last night ( he was hurrying me to put him to bed, didnt even want his bedtime song), but woke up around 330am lightly protesting. He sat up, rolled around and continued mildly protesting. It was not a 'hungry' cry and I left him alone. Not sure if he went back to bed. 430am he was hungry, so night feed it was. I don't know what time he woke up, think it was early, as he was up when I got him at 730am.  He got tired around 1030am, but I kept him awake and pushed his feed back 15 mins as I knew he would fall asleep on the boob. 1145am fell asleep very tired on the boob.

yesterday:
WU: 730am
1120am ( sleepy on the boob but I woke/kept him up)
Nap 1: 1230am-115pm ( down happy, up crying midly)
nap 2: 5-515pm ( carrier. happy down, happy up)
bedtime: 730pm (sleepy)
330am woke up but didnt protest much, don't know whether he went back to bed
430am, hungry, so fed him

today:
WU: ( guessing 630-7am?)
Nap 1: 1145am (sleepy fr 1030am, kept him up, pushed his feed back 15 mins as I knew he would fall asleep on the boob. Fell asleep on the boob)

What do you think?

[centrestage88]

Can I ask on another thing?
Just thinking ahead as I'm a bit of a worry wart. Lo will be starting playschool when he's 18 months. ( 10 months from now)
 I've a few schools in mind, but the one that I would most like to send him only has classes from 12-3pm.

Just wondering how do 18 months old attend school between 12-3pm. Isnt that approximately around their usual nap time if they only take 1 nap a day?

I'm thinking of sending him to my second choice of playschool because its in the morning 9-12pm.  Does it make sense to not send lo to the choice school simply because it coincides with his nap time?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

That is strange to have playschool for 18 month olds at that time! Personally I would go for a morning time as with an already lower sleep needs kid a fun filled morning will help with napping!

Creations I tend to agree with the micro naps getting in the way of the good midday nap (also developmental stuff too, sounds like he is raring to get moving!) and overnight sleep. Swapping a morning catnap and longer later nap was one thing I never tried with DD3 as we had to be out for the school run at 8:30 & 3:00 so I organized the day based on that. But I really think it could work! I personally always liked an apop catnap so keeping at feed time and using the prop to your advantage (so long as it did not become a habit for all sleeps - babies are smart cookies, DD3 always expected to be held at certain times and slept independently at other times). So the 10 min catnap one creations has laid out appeals to me!

[creations]

Do you think trying to get him to continue napping at 1230pm will work out?

If he was *only* napping at 12.30 then yes I do think it could work out, but my main concern is that he keeps nodding off for a micro nap on the boob. I know you are trying to avoid it but it's almost impossible and if he's anything like mine then a 2 min nap and he will think he's had a proper full nap and end up messing his other sleeps up.
It's also on my mind that the late CN may be effecting his night sleep, and that by nodding off each day around 11.30 he seems to be telling us he would like a little doze there instead.  Whilst I'm not there with him I am trying to interpret his 'requests' as best I can, but only you know him best honey and no matter what we advise here, the final call is yours.

That is strange to have playschool for 18 month olds at that time!

I also think it strange.  Whilst mine did not go to a play school at that age we did sign up for mum and toddler groups and it amazed me just how many were put on for toddlers in the afternoon when he was sleeping.
I made all of our arrangements around naps and chose only morning classes/groups to go to.  Eventually at just over 2yo he was showing signs to drop his afternoon nap (2-4pm) and so I signed up for a ballet class to distract us both from nap time. The class was 1-2 I think...well he just went to sleep after it! It was only once per week.
I reserved a place at nursery (reserved at age 2, started age 3) doing mornings only so that I could bring him home to nap after it, but by the time he started he had totally dropped his nap so we switched the days around and he stayed there for lunch and into the afternoon instead.

I'm thinking of sending him to my second choice of playschool because its in the morning 9-12pm.  Does it make sense to not send lo to the choice school simply because it coincides with his nap time?

Time wise I would go for the morning class even if I thought the class was not quite as good as another. However if I felt there was a *huge* difference in the offering I would probably look for a third option.  You need to have a good gut feeling about the place and the staff IMO, I looked for good vibe from staff, outside play available as much as possible, and healthy food if staying for lunch.  I minded far less about what toys they had as I think kids can play with anything, the place needs to be relatively clean but not brand new and old toys/equipment don't really bother me so long as they are safe.  some places look great because they are all sparkly new but the staff might not be as friendly for example.
Some places make the kids sleep at a set nap time - have you checked if this is part of the programme?  I wouldn’t really want to sign up to a place where they just go to sleep for 2 hours unless it was because I had to have childcare so I could work for example.  Everyone has different needs so it is very individual.

[centrestage88]

Thanks Creations and MasynSpencerElliotte

The second choice of school is pretty good too, except its a tad further, so I'll most probably put him there instead. Naps are part of the full day program, but lo will only be there the play sessions. Thanks for the head up for what to look for when choosing a school. Its pretty easy to get attracted by spanking new facilities. I know, its so strange for playschool to be running between 12-3pm.

Did your ds enjoy the ballet class Creations? Its unusual for little boys to attend ballet ( sorry for sounding so gender stereotype). How did you know that he would enjoy ballet? When do they start showing an interest in things? My lo currently simply enjoys chewing tissue paper.

Back to sleep talk.
Yup, he fell asleep on the boob again at 1130am. ( but he woke up 730am  and slept well last night)

 Any idea why he's getting sleepy here? I was pushing his nap back as he wasnt sleeping well at 1130am previously. Shouldnt his A times be increasing instead of decreasing?

 Do you think that its because I pushed his feed later? (I used to feed him at 1030am for his nap at 1130am.  Now because the aim for naptime is 1230pm, i feed him at 1130am). Would feeding him at 11am prevent him from sleeping at 1130am, and I can keep him up till 1230pm?

He was so sleepy that I just let him sleep and did not keep him up. ( yikes, hopefully boobies dont become a prop for him. He's been sleeping on the boob for the past 3 days!)

Do you think that I could continue letting him sleep at 1130am ( uncapped nap), then a very short 10-15min cat nap then bedtime? OR will that encourage EW and short naps? Ohhh I don't know.

 day before yesterday:
WU: 730am
1120am ( sleepy on the boob but I woke/kept him up)
Nap 1: 1230am-115pm ( down happy, up crying midly)
nap 2: 5-515pm ( carrier. happy down, happy up)
bedtime: 730pm (sleepy)
330am woke up but didnt protest much, don't know whether he went back to bed
430am, hungry, so fed him

Yesterday:
WU: ( guessing 630-7am?)
Nap 1: 1145am- 130pm (sleepy fr 1030am, kept him up, pushed his feed back 15 mins as I knew he would fall asleep on the boob. Fell asleep on the boob. woke up happy)
Nap 2: 445-515pm ( he was very sleepy as family came over to play with him. slept in the cot)
Bedtime: 730pm

Today:
WU: 730am ( woke up himself)
Nap1: 1140-115pm ( fell asleep on the boob, woke up happy at 115pm)

Will give him a cat nap 5-15pm then regular bedtime.

[creations]

Do you think that I could continue letting him sleep at 1130am ( uncapped nap), then a very short 10-15min cat nap then bedtime?

Do you know what - if this is your gut feeling then go for it.  There is no harm in trying it and seeing how it pans out.
I mean it's totally possible that he had some sort of blip making us all think he needed a later nap when he was just having a blip and is great on the 11.30 nap.
Sorry that it is not so cut and dry as you'd like, I know we all keep telling you, this is babies, and you do already know that.  You really are doing great though, the anxiety may be raised for you with these less predictable days but you have done magnificently to see to his needs.
And by the way if I felt going back to a nap at 11.30 was a terrible idea I would try to politely tell you. I don't think it's a terrible idea and I do think if your gut is telling you this then we really ought to try it.
From tomorrow then (or rather from today as you did it today)

Did your ds enjoy the ballet class Creations?

To begin with he liked to watch, that was his way when he was young, I didn't force him to join in but he chose when he was ready.  Honestly I only chose the class because it was on at our local childrens centre and I basically signed up for anything we could possibly go to. He did enjoy it though, at that age the kids have no idea of gender stereotypes so tend not to question why a boy is there, anyway I told DS the truth that male ballet dancers have to be super strong and muscular.

My lo currently simply enjoys chewing tissue paper.

Ha ha, maybe some kids cooking classes when he's up on his feet?  We did a cooking class too, very simple stuff, fun.

[centrestage88]

Thanks!

Lo sTTN last night!

He's been getting drowsy and sleepy on the boob at 1130am n I've been letting him zzzz. He sleeps abt 1.5-1.45hrs and wakes up pretty happy. Gets tired ard 445pm so it's catnap from there till 515pm. The nights have been going good. Hope it continues.

So it's been:
Wu: 730am
Nap 1: 1145-145pm (uncapped)
Nap 2: 445-515pm ( uncapped)
Bedtime: 730pm

A question abt props. He gets drowsy on the boob but I wake him up before putting him in the crib. Has been so for quite a number of days. Will lo start associating the boob with sleeping? I do ensure that he is awake before I put him down though. Or should I push his feed earlier? ( but his feeds are already quite close in the morning)

I'm looking forward to taking little one to classes when he's a little older. Cooking, dancing sounds fun!