Total bedtime refusal no matter what I try - 2-1 transition, please help!

[JaspersMum]

I had the same question about the length of nap . . it seems like if I let him sleep 2.5 hours I pay for it with an early waking.  Mostly we get 2 hr or 1hr 45m naps.  Wake ups have been great with around 7am but bedtime he screeches without fail.  We've got a new routine going which doesn't include boob and daddy puts him down to sleep so I think he's still getting used to it, or he's testing our patience.  I really think for DS an early bedtime is key . . 7pm at the latest, but then I have to make sure he's up from his nap by 2pm.

[sherry lynn]

Rachel - even for us sticking to a 12 hour day at this point seemed to be really key. And Lyle has never been a 12 hour routine guy. But, for a few months during the transition it was really really important. I think he almost never went to bed past seven at that point. So, I think you are right about the earlier bedtime. Lyle also needed 5 hours of A time in the evening, but his nap was often early, so it wasn't too hard for him to be up by 2.

[shresmummy]

We haven't been doing too well the past 2 days again

Sherry, before I get on with DD's issues, I did on a couple of days try to put her down to bed around 4hr 45 min A time but on those days she took about 30 mins to fall asleep!! So I did the 5 hr and on those days she fell asleep within 5 mins. But I don't know for sure because the past few days have been a bit unsettled.

Monday - wake 7Am, nap - 12-2 (woke on her own), then bedtime 7
But she woke up crying at 7:50PM. That's really weird!! She hasn't done that in ages..is it a sign of OT? but 50 mins is a weird time. or something else?

Then today similar routine but she woke from her nap at 1:20!! And I tried to put her to sleep up until 2 and she absolutely refused. So I gave up and brought her out. The funny thing is she was fine during her whole A time!!??

I tried an early bedtime around 6:20 and she fell asleep at 6:30. But she woke up crying again at 7:20 exactly 50 mins after going to sleep, like last night.

What's the deal I wonder?

Should I do a 2 nap day tomorrow? Or will that mess things up again?

She was doing so well last week and we even had 1 STTN. Oh well!!

[sherry lynn]

I'm stumped to be honest.

I think if it were me I would probably try 2 naps to see if it helps.

Sorry   She's like Lyle, she's always been a tricky LO.

[shresmummy]

Well I completely don't know what to make of my LO!!

So she didn't have the best night last night (Lots of NWs), but I expected that after a bad napping day. But she woke bright and chirpy at 7 AM so she had almost a 12 hr night., give/take 20 mins for the NW.

She was in quite an OK mood today so I took a chance and did a 1 nap day today as well. She slept really well??!! huh? not that I"m complaining!

She slept from 12:20 - 2:40ish when I woke her up. I got a bit late putting her down becuase just at 12 when I was getting ready to put her down we got a parcel delivered! Grrrr! But luckily it didn't affect her nap.

And I did bedtime around 7:20 because she was rubbing her eyes and I thought I"ll give it a go after around 4.5hr A time. Anyway she slept easily.

But she woke up again after 50 mins really distressed calling out for me, around 8:10!?? And it took almost 30 mins to get her back to sleep again. She would sleep then wake up again in 10 mins crying out for me. This happened 2 times.

I am beginning to doubt whether this is a result of A times/routines, because she had a good day right?? And I don't think she was OT at bedtime after just 4.5hr A time after such a good nap too. Perhaps it's a developmental thing? Sudden onset of SA? Teething? Finally got her to sleep around 8:40.

Wonder what kind of night we'll have. I am just baffled as to what this 50 mins wake up thing is all about. Just suddenly out of the blue!

[sherry lynn]

It could be any of those things.

Why don't you start a new post with that as the main question, I'm curious to see what people would say.

Are you waking her from nap to preserve the hours of night asleep and/or to make bedtime easier? I never woke Lyle at this age, and he did fine on night sleep and going down.

[shresmummy]

Hi Sherry, I don't have good news to report unfortunately We're a bit all over the place since friday.

Before I get onto that, to answer your questions, when things seemed to go along fine a few weeks ago I was waking her up from the nap after around 2hr 20 mins because I found that bedtime was easier if she definitely had 5hr of A time before I put her to bed. Also to preserve the hours of night sleep. If I didn't wake her I found I was back to doing more than 12hr days, which I thought I should try and avoid on 1 nap?

What would you recommend? What sort of hours/routine was Lyle doing at this age?

I think on the weekend I might have made a mistake!! She seemed so fussy/whingy and I thought she may be teething so I gave her 2 naps on Friday.

It's now Monday and I can't seem to get out of that rut again!! saturday she went back to fussing at night and did only 10hrs of sleep.

But sunday she didn't nap well (due to lunch at MILs) so I put her to bed at 7 (she went down easily and slept OK except for that 50 min wake up thing) and she woke at 6:50 today so I was hoping to get back on track today.

I thought that today when she started back up at childcare she wouldn't sleep in the AM but she cried there heaps apparently (must have not liked being there after a good break with mummy at home!) and got tired so she went to sleep at 10:30 and just woke up around 11:10 when I went to pick her up

I put her down for a PM nap today at 1:50 and am hoping if she sleeps till at least 2:50 or 3 then I'll do bedtime after 7:30 and hope she does 1 nap again tomorrow.
what do you think?

[sherry lynn]

At least now you sort of know what to expect, when she has one nap, versus two.

Don't beat yourself up.

There's nothing you can do about the day care situation, so you just sort of have to go with that.
With Lyle it was sort of easier, because he almost always woke earlier. The 12 hour nights only lasted a short while. So he was usually up at 6ish, so it was very very easy for us to fit in the 5 hours of A time at the end of the day.

If she needs those 5 hours then you are doing the right thing by waking her. Lyle typically napped 11-2 on good nap days.
So his day sort of looked like this
6am wake
nap 11-2
bedtime 7

Then he needed more A time so bedtime because 7:30.
Then he dropped nighttime sleep and he started waking closer to 5:30.
For awhile I didn't do anything about that. I just kept it as it was. Then when the wake up crept earlier  I started cutting his nap for awhile. Now, most of the time he wakes up himself by about 2 hours.

Sometimes I still let him sleep if he goes past two hours, and sometimes I pay for that, and sometimes I don't. He's just so not consistent, so with sickness in winter and teething, etc. I've just been letting him do his own thing a little more, and then just trying to roll with the consequences. Which sometimes means a very early waking.

If you have her tomorrow than I would try to do one nap I think.

[shresmummy]

Hi Sherry, sorry I couldnt' get back to you sooner. We had internet problems, again! So frustrating

Well, we've had an interesting couple of days. Today was great (thus far!), yesterday not so great.

Yesterday she didn't sleep at childcare, which was good I guess. Our routine was:

wake - 7Am
nap - 12:05 - 12:45, 12:50 - 1:30, then she slept until about 2:40 (not sure what the reason was. She kept waking every 40 mins but would resettle when I went in and patted her). OT? UT? who knows.

bedtime - I tried around 7:15, she fell asleep at 7:30. For once we didn't have the wake up after 50 mins but she did wake up exactly 2 hrs after (9:30). Then had another brief wake around 1-ish then woke up this morning at 6:40.

I think she woke up slightly earlier because she had quite a longish nap yesterday, despite the wakes???

Today was good:

Wake - 6:40
nap - 11:45 - 2:05 no wakings
bedtime - 7ish (fell asleep on her own, with me just sitting there). I heard her call out for her bunny at 2hrs around 9pm but I didn't have to do anything.

Hoping for a good night!

[sherry lynn]

Wow, that's great.

I think you have to decide.
Do you want a slightly longer nap (knowing she won't be OT then) or a longer night.

Honestly if it were me  I would just go with the 11 hour night and be happy.
It also seems that 5 hours of A time is perfect after an 11 hour night. So I'm going to guess that the day before she was just a tad (a tiny tad) UT for that nap, because she had a longer night the night before. So if you get longer nights maybe up the A time just a little bit before naps.
I think you learned so much by the last two days. I would guess that 5 hours A time is perfect in the afternoon also with a 2h20m nap
Curious to see how the night goes.
Hopefully she will comply over the next few days so you can finally figure out her A times

[shresmummy]

Yes, I too am absolutely contented with a 11hr night!

Last night was a bit odd though. I had expected her to have a good one, but around 11:20 she woke up, and then for the next hour or so kept waking up every 10 or 15 mins and didn't really get to sleep properly. Finally around 12:30ish she fell asleep and then had another very brief wake around 3:30ish. Then she woke up at 7:30.

Not sure what to make of it. weird don't you think?

Today also was odd. She was fussy around 12ish and I thought because she didn't have the best night I would put her down earlier than 5 hrs. so I put her for a nap at 12:15. She went to sleep very easily but then woke up at 1:50ish after that 1hr40 min mark.

I tried to see if would go back to sleep but she was happy to be up?!

Anyway I did bedtime around 6:50/7ish. So far no NWs. Let's see...

[sherry lynn]

Do you think there is any chance she is teething?

[shresmummy]

Hi, hope the weekend is going well

Sherry, she might well be teething, I honestly don't know what to think at the moment.

She's been doing some awfully strange things the past few days!

Friday
Wake - 6:30
Nap - 11:30 - 12:30 (brief wake) then 12:35 - 2 (I woke her)
Bedtime - 7:15
NWs - lots 1:45, then again 2:45 and slept on/off till 5:30, even chatted a bit in between!! Finally fell asleep properly then woke at 7:30

Saturday
Wake - 7:30
Nap - 12 - 12:35 (I thought she had a bad night so put her down when she started acting cranky, although it wasn't 5hr A time yet) UT nap?? or OT?
Nap - 2:50 - 3:40 woke crying then 3:45 - 4:15 (I AP'd her for this nap)
Bedtime - 8:25
NWs - again lots around 2, then again 3:15ish then woke up at 6:15 and refused to go back to sleep.

Sunday
Wake - 6:15
Nap - tried at 11:15 but she only fell asleep at 11:30ish, woke crying at 12:30 (I'm sure OT) then resettled but up happy at 1:15?? 
Tried to AP a short 20 min catnap around 3 but didn't want it. Obviously I guess it was only 2hr A time!?
Anyway I tried an early bedtime at 6:15.

I'm expecting another bad night. 

Even if she's had a bad night I find that she won't have a good nap unless it's been 5hr A time since she woke up. Have you had that experience? Is it worth just pushing her to around 5hr A time but risk OT?

[sherry lynn]

I would stick to the 5 hours. Because, when you do that, even if she wakes briefly you are able to get her right back to sleep.

I think I mentioned that we had fragmented naps for awhile when Lyle first went to one nap (actually, we still get them) but to me it's a successful nap as long as he goes back to sleep. Now a days he has to put himself back to sleep. If I go in there it's all over with. So I just sit staring at the monitor praying that he will go back to sleep.

Also, we are still trying to find the right A times. So, I would just try to stay consistent. My gut is telling me that honestly she might need a little more A time, but we won't figure that out until we stick to 5 hours for a little while. The only reason I say that is months and months ago she was handling more A time really well.

Although, having said that, I am completely shocked that you were able to get that second nap out of her the other day. Saturday. She she must have been tired. Maybe you still need to alternate a 2 nap day in there every now and then?

[shresmummy]

Hi Sherry, I had to really AP that second nap out of her. It was tough but we were going out that evening so I knew she would have a meltdown if I didn't get some sleep into her at least. But it was very very hard so you're right in being shocked I too was shocked!!

Well last night was still tough. She went to bed at 6:30 and woke up briefly around 9:15, then again at 11:15, took a bit longer to settle then. Again at 3:30ish, then 6 Am. But I got her back to sleep till 7Am when we both had to get up and get ready for work/childcare.

At nights i'm still doing what I mentioned to you earlier, regarding the resettling process. Should I change anything?