Total bedtime refusal no matter what I try - 2-1 transition, please help!

[shresmummy]

Well, we had a horrible night last night. I'm not sure whether it was due to the OT from the bad napping day or whether it was perhaps teething. After going to bed at 6:30 she woke up at 8:30 then 9:20 then I heard her cry out at 10:30 but she settled herself. Then she woke around 3:15 and wouldn't go back to sleep until 4:30!!! She was chatting and then started fussing and I brought her to bed with me so we could get some sleep. She woke up bright and chirpy at 7AM!! what ?

Anyway at childcare today they said she was happy to keep on playing so I brought her home early and managed to get her for a nap by 12:20. But she woke up and cried briefly around 1:25 I put her back to sleep then she woke up at 2:40 whining again and I cuddled her until about 3. During that time she drifted in and out of sleep. But at 3 she woke happy.

That was at least better than yesterday right?

I put her to bed around 7:20 but she fell asleep only around 7:45. She woke up at 9:15 crying and then I had to settle her. Then I heard her just now around 11 but she seems to have gone back to sleep.

She's waking up at weird times. Makes me wonder whether it's OT or something else.

Tomorrow should I try for a 2 nap day or just see whether to do 1 nap again? If she's not cranky or tired around the 10:30 AM nap time should I push her out till about 4.5hr A time?

[sherry lynn]

I think she is probably OT. I would try for 2 naps I think.
Maybe try the 30 min am nap again

I think on 1 nap days try to aim for a 12 hour day. So bedtime at 7 yesterday. WDYT?

If she refuses the AM nap again, then yes, aim for about 4.5 hours, 4.75 hours of A time. For the one nap.

She might be nearing 5 hours A time given her age, but lets start with what we know worked before.

When Lyle first went to one nap it was common for him to wake during the nap, but I knew we were on the right track when he would go back to sleep during the nap. So I think today actually went ok for you guys. It is a step in the right direction.
Before that point he would wake at 1h10m and not go back to sleep

[shresmummy]

Gosh! I just spent the last 50 minutes trying to get her down for the night!! I feel like it's a no-win situation nowadays with my LO!! Grrrr!!

Well, we had a 2 nap day today, because after a really horrible night last night she woke up at 6:15AM today. Given she went to bed last night at 7:45 would you say that was an OK night if there was a 10.5hr night? But she woke up multiple times.

Anyway this was our routine today:

Wake - 6:15AM
AM nap - 10:15 - 11:20 she woke on her own, happy
PM nap - 3:15 - 4 (it got a bit late putting her down due to a Dr. appt. But even then she did fuss and I had to AP her. Do you think she was OT? Then I woke her up after 45 mins.

Bedtime - I tried putting her down at 7:30. Was that unreasonable after a 45 min nap? She took till 8:15 to fall asleep!! I tried calming her down for 10 mins so that she was sleepy and then put her in the cot. She got up and sat immediately then kept fidgeting, and tossing around. Eventually I had to AP her to sleep. She seemed UT.

So we ended up with a 14hr day! Goodness know what kind of night I have in store!!

It seems if we have 2 nap days the nighttime antics are in full-swing, no matter how long the PM nap ends up being.

[JaspersMum]

I think its time to take drastic action.  I think you need to jump straight to one nap, so do 4.5-5 hours A time and then a nap, and then 4.5-5 hours A time and then bed and follow this consistently for maybe a week OR do a 20-30 minute am nap and then a longer nap in the pm.

I don't think you can keep going on like you are . . you are going to go crazy.

[Shiv52]

Just catching up.  I'd make the jump too.  Unless you do, you are going to keep being caught in this cycle of not getting long enough nights as bed is too late by the time she gets too sleep as there isn't enough A time etc etc and so it goes on.

We went cold turkey as couldn't face all the to-ing and fro-ing and about a week later we were well settled then a few weeks later we started getting the longer naps.  Best decision I ever made.   

{{{hugs}}}  Its a tough transition.

[sherry lynn]

I agree with the two posts above.
You will drive yourself crazy if she keeps up this bedtime nonsense. She is now showing most of the signs that it is time to switch and I think she is def. old enough that you shouldn't suffer too many OT days and nights

[shresmummy]

Well ladies, I took your advice because I am just OVER this!! and am trying 1 nap today. We didn't have the best night last night, but hey who cares!! nothing's going great anyway!!

So she woke up this morning at 7, or at least I woke her up at 7.

I put her down for the nap at around 11:50, after about 4.75h A time which was the 1 time that she took a 2hr nap.

Just had a few questions about switching to 1 nap:

1. how long should I let her sleep for? I have read that ideally 2hrs. But if she is still sleeping past that should I wake her?

2. if she has just a one hour or, 1hr10 min or a 1.5hr nap should I try for a catnap later or just move bedtime up by 30 mins?

3. should I have a set wake up time of say 7AM? and then aim for bedtime by 7PM? But if she has a short nap during the day is it worth trying bedtime at 6:30??

and I stick to this for 3 days at least right??

[JaspersMum]

Good on you Priya - its a big step and you are brave for jumping in.  I'm no expert but here is what I would do:

1. Because this is all new, I'd let her sleep for max 2.5 hours, then perhaps do bed at 7.30.

2. If she only sleeps for less than 2 hours, I would make bedtime no more than 4.5/4.75 hours after that.

3. Wake up is up to you.  I think you have to start thinking in terms of a 12 hour day, like you've said, so if 7am wake up then 7pm bedtime.  Any later and OT creeps in.  I'd love a 7am wake up - I usually get 6.30am!

Definitely stick to it and see what happens.

Good luck!

[shresmummy]

Well, I don't know what to make of today. Here was our routine. I wonder if I let her sleep too long?

Wake - 7Am

Nap - 11:45 - 1:10 then 1:45 - 2:45 then 2:50 - 3:15/3:20ish

(she didn't look overly tired before then so I thought 11:45 was a good time to try. She slept until 1:10 then woke up and was sitting in her cot and called out for me. I went in and she looked ready to getup she didn't really but I could tell she was still tired.

So I tried to put her back to sleep and initially she was ok then resisted and started crying heaps. But she was still rubbing her eyes and I persisted, AP'd big time! She finally calmed down and fell asleep around 1:45 only! Then she slept till 2:45 and woke up crying. When I picked her up to comfort her she fell back asleep so I let her sleep till about 3:!5ish then tried to wake her. She kept wanting to go back to sleep and finally woke up around 3:25ish I think.

Then she was quite happy and ok after that.

I tried bedtime around 7:20 because I wasn't sure. I know this wasn't a really12hr day but then her nap was a bit wonky.

Anyway she took till about 7:45 to fall asleep. But she was calm thankfully.

What should I try tomorrow?

[JaspersMum]

Um yeah, I suspect she slept toooo long.  She was refreshed after her 1 hour 25 minutes and didn't want to go back to sleep.  I would have cut it there and just put her to bed early.

If you stick with this plan eventually her body will realise she's only getting one sleep now and that nap will slowly lengthen.

Tomorrow if you wake her at 7am, could you try pushing her nap til 12pm?  I'm just thinking that she might sleep longer than 1.5 hours.

[sherry lynn]

I agree she would probably do well on 5 hours A time.

[shresmummy]

I was worried because I thought sometimes a 1hr 25 min nap was a sign of OT.

Well today she woke up at 6:45 AM. So I was rather stuck. I put her down at 11:30ish. She slept 1hr 45 mins until 1:15.

But I find that a 1:15 PM wake up is so awkward. I might try bedtime at 6:30 what do you think?

[JaspersMum]

Definitely bedtime at 6.30pm . . although its probably past that now where you are . . let us know how it went.  A 1 hour 45 minute nap is excellent!

[shresmummy]

I don't want to speak too soon and jinx tonight...but today was reasonable I think.

Wake - 6:45
Nap - 11:30 - 1:15
bedtime - 6:30 and get this...she fell asleep in under 3 minutes!!

That short time for her to fall asleep at bed time made my day, wait... it made my whole week!!

But let's wait and see how the night goes.. it's these NWs that just cant' seem to shake. Although I think teething is sometimes also the culprit. She has really swollen lower gums. But then again with my DD you never know!

Perhaps tomorrow I should try 5hrs A time like you and Sherry suggested? Or is that too much too soon?

[JaspersMum]

That's a really good start Priya.  I'm so glad for you that she fell asleep quickly.  I'm finding if I get DS to bed not more than 12.5 hours from wake up he is sooo much happier.

I'd go with the 4.75 A time for maybe 2 more days?