Total bedtime refusal no matter what I try - 2-1 transition, please help!

[sherry lynn]

Yes, that would be the reason. Which is fine. At least you know the reason. I'm glad she went to bed fine. Hopefully you won't have too many NWs.

She must have needed the sleep.

[shresmummy]

Hi, just wanted to give you an update. So the past 2 days we've still done 2 naps. And our routine was sort of like before with Am nap from 10:35 - 11:20ish then PM nap from 2:45 - 4ish and then she finally fell asleep at bedtime anytime between 8:15 - 8:30 despite me trying from about 8. But her nights have been okayish. She has been sleeping through until about 4:45 or 5:45 in the morning and then with a few pats has been going back to sleep until about 7ish.


Anyway today were were forced to have a 1 nap day becuase of a Dr. appt in the morning and unfortunatley it got a bit late getting back home. So we did:

Wake - 7:20
nap - 12:35 - 2:05ish. She woke up and I tried to AP her back to sleep but she seemed pretty wide awake and happy? But that wasn't enough sleep was it?

I didn't bother with a late catnap and put her to bed early around 6:40ish.

Keeping my fingers crossed for a good night.

Should I try for 1 nap again tomorrow? obviously a bit earlier that today's nap!!

[sherry lynn]

I would see how the night and wake up goes. If she does fine, then yes, if it were me I would do the one nap a tad earlier. Maybe even just 15 min earlier. But, up to a half hour earlier.

How did she go down at bedtime?

Why do you think that 15 min to go to sleep is too long? I'm referring to the putting her down at 8 and going to sleep at 8:15. Most LO I know now take a little while to go to sleep. As they get older and more aware it just takes a little longer to unwind. If she's not crying or fussing I wouldn't really worry about how long it takes her to go down.

[shresmummy]

Well last night was not pretty She went down for bed at 6:45 no problems, in fact within about 5 mins. And then she slept up until about midnight and then the fun started. I have no idea whether it was OT or UT problem.s

She woke up at midnight then again 12:50 then 1:30, 3:30 and from 3:45 - about 4:30 she was up and rearing to go! she was chatting and then fussed to fall asleep so I had to sit and pat her back to sleep to make she she got some sleep! Then she slept from about 4:45 to 7:20 this morning and woke up perfectly happy, unlike me!

I put her down for her short AM nap around 10:40 but I'm not sure whether I made a mistake doing that or not. She fussed a bit to fall asleep and I thought becahse she had a bad night she might have been a bit fussy and tired? But looking back I'm wondering whether that was UT or not.

Anyway now that she's gone to sleep I'm going to wake her up around 11:25 and then put her down for the PM nap at around 2:40 or so. We'll see.

I guess I"m still used to her falling asleep like a few months ago, which was in just a few mins. You'r right she is taking longer now, but sometimes she fusses as in does her strange things before falling asleep even if she's not crying. so I always worry that she's OT and that's probably why I'm so stressed about the time she takes to fall asleep 15 mins I wouldn't worry normally but 30 mins then I start worrying!

What do you make of last night and this morning?

[sherry lynn]

30 I worry also, 30 is usually a sign of fun times to come   But 15-20 min I think starts becoming more normal around this age. Think about it, you don't fall straight to sleep when you go to bed either. You have to wind down a little bit.

Normally I would say UT, however, I'm going to say OT because she didn't do this nonsense with 2 naps

I would say then keep the 2 naps for a little longer. If you are happy with the way things are going, then fine keep that, otherwise you'll have to start cutting the first nap shorter to allow more time before bed and second nap, or what ever she seems to need

Good luck with the second nap and bedtime.

[shresmummy]

The trouble Sherry is I'm not sure what she really need!!

Today wasn't a good day by my standards but what do you think?

Wake - 7:20 after last night's fun!!

AM nap - 10:40 - 11:30ish (fussed a bit to fall asleep but did in about 10 mins and then woke up on her own, a bit unhappy but then was happy in a few mins)  was the fussing before the nap due to UT?

PM nap - 2:40 - 3:40 ( I was hoping for at least 1h20 min or 1.5h)

Bedtime - tried since 7:30 (I thought 4hr after a 1hr nap was ok and she has been doing so well after 4hr A time before bed)
She initially played around and I let her thinking she would settle. But around 7:50 nearly 8 she started whining a bit. So I had to go in and pat her. She finally fell asleep around 8:10  and I'm sure she must have been OT

I'm bracing myself for another rough night

I'd be happy to keep the 2 naps but she's not doing them as she used to either. But then again there were those few days before the teething that she did really well on 1 nap didn't she? So I am not sure what to try tomorrow.

[sherry lynn]

My gut just tells me that that routine is not appropriate for her anymore.

It is possible she was slightly OT before bed, but the nap was so late in the day and it wasn't quite 4 hours, but the nap was only an hour. So... it's anybodies guess.

My gut says she was UT for both naps.

If you are going to stick with 2 naps I think you really need to cut one of the naps again. I would also shy away from putting her down in the morning before 3.5 hours of A time. That is really the bare minimum I've seen at this age. Even from sleepy babies.

You also want to start stretching that time a little bit, so 3h20m isn't going to help you in that department. I know she had a rough night,  but..... you only want a shorter nap there anyways, so it's ok to push her just a tad. In fact pushing her there can help with the PM nap.

[JaspersMum]

Hi ladies, just been reading along this thread. 

I can see where you are coming from Sherry.  Priya I would agree that you need to cut your naps.  This is what we've been doing for the past 5-6 days and although it hasn't been perfect, we are definitely getting there and I'm feeling good about being consistent for once and for all!

Wake - 6.30/7am
Nap 1 - anywhere between 10am and 10.30am for max 40 minutes (1 sleep cycle)
Nap 2 - 3.25 - 3.5 hours from wake up - this nap max 1.5 hours
Bed - this is variable as DS doesn't need a long A time before bed but is at least 3.5 hours after wake up.
He is then sleeping for about 11 hours.

[shresmummy]

Hi ladies, so today I tried the following routine. But it still took DD over 30 mins to fall asleep at bedtime. This bedtime thing is what's really getting to me!! I have no idea where to start to fix it

Wake - 7:30 AM
AM nap - 11:10 - 11:40
PM nap - 2:40 - 3:50
Bedtime - Tried since 7:45 and finally she fell asleep around 8:15. Hmmm.

She fell asleep easily for the first nap, took a bit longer for the 2nd but it was within about 15 mins which I think is reasonable, but bedtime was annoying because at the end she just starts crying out for me.

Should I cut the Am nap some more? I used to do around 40 mins as you suggested Rachel but I tried to do 30 mins today because of the slightly later wake up this morning.

I don't know whether she slept longer than 1 hr for the PM nap today because of the cut Am nap to 30 mins?

[shresmummy]

Forgot to mention that for the past few days she's been doing a total of only about 1hr 40 mins total daytime sleep.

Doesn't that seem like not enough?

[JaspersMum]

I think your morning nap was fine.  If I were you I wouldn't have expected bedtime to be any earlier than 8.30 personally as she had a really late start to the day.  During this phase of the 2-1 I keep seeing daytime sleep getting shorter (1 hr 45m - 2 hours) and the day getting longer, so a 13 hour day.  Once they are consistently on one nap the day goes back to 12 hours and day sleep is 2-2.5 hours.

[shresmummy]

But that would have meant an A time of over 4.5hr after a 1hr 10 min nap. Wouldn't that have been too much though? Then again I have no idea what's too much or too little these days

I keep thinking that her PM nap is starting and finishing too late. Not sure how to get around that unless I shorten her Am nap some more? how much more should it be shortened I wonder.

I can never tell though if waking her up from her Am nap is ok or not. If I let her sleep for that Am nap she probably would still sleep for much longer. But then she might refuse her PM nap.

[sherry lynn]

I agree with Rachel.
The naps are just so late in the day that it's hard to expect a bedtime before 8.

However, I would not cut the nap anymore, for at least 3 days. You don't want her to get OT.

It's been awhile since you did the 40 min nap, hasn't it. I've been seeing 50 min morning naps

I'm curious to see how the night will go on today's naps.

I'm just curious, do you think you are becoming a prop since you've been so worried about OT? It's not a judgment, I've been a prop ever since DS went to the BBB. I have to sit outside of his bedroom. It just seems that almost every sleep you have to go in, at least for bedtime. ?

[JaspersMum]

I'm sure I've read somewhere that some babes can do a full A time after even a 1 hour nap!  Knowing what we know about your DD she needs a long A time before bed.

I think you should definitely stick to keeping that am nap at a max of 40 minutes.

[sherry lynn]

I was thinking more along the lines of having her in bed at 8 and asleep by 8:30 ish. But, that's past anyways.