15mo - routine disappeared - NW + SER!

[labrodyk]

hello lovely ladies!!

I had a lengthy thread on here previously but i thought I'd start again in the hope there might be some fresh eyes.

My son Harry is 15mo today and we are in complete chaos. We have SUPER early rising of 4/4.30 where just my presence in his room means it's time to get up; taking a very early morning nap of 1-1.5 hours then 3.5 hours later isn't interested in a nap and either refusing or by the time he falls asleep it's so late that we miss 7pm bedtime and then the cycle continues...

He is teething and is being medicated but it's not doing much (and I don't want to keep him medicated for more than a few days!). He also has a head cold which I think is related to the teething. He's eating and drinking well though.

Today I tried limiting the first nap to 1 hour but he was so grumpy when he got up and whinged until i put him down at 1.30 but then didn't want to fall asleep but did so by 2 but then he woke at 2.20pm. I managed to pat him back to sleep (first time this has ever worked) but woke at 3pm.

Before this refusal our routine was:

W/U - 5-6 but out of bed no earlier than 6
E
A
S - 9.30 - 11
E
A
S - 2.30 - 4
E
A
BT - 7

He started taking hours to fall asleep at 7pm so we capped the arvo to 3.30 but he again took until 8.30pm to fall asleep. After completely refusing his afternoon sleep yesterday he was awake from 11.30-5.45. He fell asleep easily but woke crying from 4. After a cuddle at 5 he was quiet for 30 mins between 5.15-5.45 and then was chatting again. Out of bed from 6 but extremely grumpy.

I guess I just have no idea where to start or what to do with him? Last time we tried to transition to 1 sleep (around 12-13 months) he was so incredibly overtired that he was throwing tantrums ALL day and again was NW and ER so because of that I'm scared.

If someone can please give me some advice I'd be most grateful.

Regards,
Laura
x

[Buttonbobs]

Hi hun, last time you posted I think you were trying for a short CN in the morning, followed by a longer afternoon nap. From what you've posted above am I right in seeing that you're going for a longer morning nap now and a shorter CN in the afternoon?

If that is the case, you will really need to push that morning nap out later to reduce the EWs. An early morning nap is ok at this age if it is short as you want him to be UT going down for it so he's not too grumpy on WU. You also want to limit the CN first to one sleep cycle - so 45 mins. If he's gone through the 45 mins to an hour, he would probably be grumpy on WU as he was tired enough to take a full nap and woke mid-cycle if that makes sense.

It sounds like he is now quite OT, but the way of this is (although counter-intuitive) to push that nap out later. If he takes a CN in the afternoon great, if not, go for EBT. What do you think?

[labrodyk]

Hello again Naomi!

Thanks for replying.

I actually have no idea what I'm doing in regards to short/long am/pm. I stopped trying to cap or offer catnaps because he was an overtired mess and since I don't have a video monitor it was incredibly hard to effectively cap. I was finding that he'd be laying there awake but silent for 30 of the 45 mins which meant he was incredibly grumpy all the time.  I therefore offered 2 completely uncapped sleeps.

I was only trying to cut off the afternoon so he'd go to sleep at 7 but it's becoming very hard to cap a 30 min sleep because either he won't go down for it at all (and I can't apop him in any way) or takes ages to fall asleep and then it's for the same reason as above.

How much later do I need to push the nap and how do I then fit in a catnap or longer sleep. He loves a long morning sleep but it means the afternoon is stuffed. He won't go down any earlier than 3.5 hours after that first nap (even with only an hour yesterday morning). He also won't go to bed any earlier than 4 hours (MAX 4).

I can't seem to fit it all (capped or not capped) into a day but at the same time he can barely keep his eyes open by 10 and then has a crap sleep so there is no way he can make it to BT.

Thanks,
Laura.

[Buttonbobs]

We did hit a point like this with E. She coped pretty well with the OT. The only thing that really fixed it was moving the nap later (noon really) and sticking with it - like a set nap. To begin with she took some short naps and think really she wasn't quite ready for one nap truely. The benefits were the OT was no worse than it had been, we knew where we were each day, and after a few weeks the naps started to lengthen and she slept more in24 hours than she had in months.

Something worth considering?

Whatever you decide to do, you will need to decide and stick with it, I think any inconsistency at all will be your enemy now x

[labrodyk]

I 100% agree with you Naomi regarding inconsistency! We have a sleep school here and I have an appointment with them next week. I rang one of their hotlines today and they suggested trying a nap from 11 for 5 days. Well would you believe that he slept 2.5 hours? I couldn't believe it. he's never slept that long in his ENTIRE life. I really hope things turn around now but at the very least I'm just going to push through and maintain 11am and either 6/6:30 bedtime depending on nap length for at least 5 days and then re-evaluate.

Today was:

WU: 5ish (i think even before  )
GU: 6am
Nap:11-1.34!!!
BT: 6:30

He had a crazy tantrum though at bath time. Aa full on, tummy on the ground screaming, arching back when I tried to pick him up tantrum.  I'm not sure if it was from OT or something else entirely but boy was it crazy. No idea what was going on there...

May I also ask if it's possible to do middle of the day/lunch time activities on 1 nap? Randomly can there be 2 naps or does that confuse them? We've been invited out on Sydney Harbour in a boat for the day/lunch. I could put him down in the pram at 11 but he'll only sleep 40 minutes in there so just wondering if you had any suggestions?

Thanks,
Laura
x

[labrodyk]

well that was interesting. We popped him down at 6:30 and my husband was near his room just before 7 and hadn't heard anything. Then I turned on the monitor at 7:30 and he was crying! I have no idea how long he'd been crying for but I went in and patted the mattress for 15 mins until he was asleep.

It's ridiculously hot here and I think he's just really hot. Or could it be OT from today?

[Buttonbobs]

Well done him! What a good nap. I agree that this later nap is the way forward and sticking with it definitely for 5 days to a week at least.

Randomly can there be 2 naps or does that confuse them? We've been invited out on Sydney Harbour in a boat for the day/lunch. I could put him down in the pram at 11 but he'll only sleep 40 minutes in there so just wondering if you had any suggestions?

Obviously life continues and if you have a lovely thing like this to do then personally I would go for it. My DD deals well with OT and would manage at that age with a short sleep on the go. I would probably do EBT later on though. I would say while you are trying to get him back on track though try and stick to the one nap a day until he gets used to the idea that's how it will be. One day off isn't going to ruin everything, but it may be a little more confusing.

t's ridiculously hot here and I think he's just really hot. Or could it be OT from today?

Heat could be a factor - it certainly stops me sleeping. If it goes on for longer than the heat or you can't call him down it may just be adjusting to the new pattern.

[labrodyk]

Hi Naomi!

We're on day 3 today and yesterday and last night did not go well

WU: 5.53
GU: 6.00
Nap: 11-12.38
I tried to resettle with patting for 45 mins but just lay there awake sucking finger with comforter.
BT: 6.0
NW: 10.48 and then between 2 or 3 times between 2-4 for about 10-20 mins each time crying. I didn't go to him.

Then this morning was;
WU:5.15 chatting and again I spent 45 mins patting trying to resettle but to no avail
GU: 6.00

Do I just push on despite OT and try to resettle or what?

[Buttonbobs]

It doesn't sound just like OT to me hun, perhaps discomfort from the heat? Or teething? NWs after midnight for us are always discomfort or sometimes UT if very long and happy but I don't think that applies here.

I know you guys have lots of heat there at the moment. What is he wearing at night? Is he likely too hot? If you suspect teething, could you offer a dream med at around 2am to get you through those early hours.

[labrodyk]

Well it definitely could be both I guess but he's clearly tired too and I don't know how to fix that...

Heat. The temp in his room is about 27 degrees so I'm following the sleep bag recommendations and he has a short sleeved suit that does up under his nappy and a 0.5 tog sleep bag.

Teeth. I'm sure we are due some eye teeth and he's been really drooling and biting me. They seem a little swollen (not that he lets me in his mouth!) but they could be moving /hurting. I just don't like giving meds unnecessarily.

[Buttonbobs]

I think you're doing everything you can routine wise re his OT, hold tight for a few more days and see what it brings.

I'm sure you're already doing everything you can for heat. Clothing and sleeping bag sound good - although it was less hot than that last summer and are was too hot in anything so I put her to bed in just a nappy with a loose cotton sheet over her. That was goodbye to the bag for us and it was the right time. We also had a fan in her room which helped a little and the added white noise that made can't have been a negative thing.

For teeth, it is a personal parent decision and I can't tell you when meds are or are not necessary. Perhaps give them a go and if it makes a difference then you know it's necessary right? I had a toothache after some dental work recently and I couldn't manage to sleep without meds for over two weeks. I really needed them to stay comfortable at night far more than anything in the day.

Hugs and here for you whatever you decide xx

[labrodyk]

Hi Naomi!

Thanks so much for your help.  The last 2 days have been so different again;

Saturday
WU: 5.15 - tried to resettle but couldn't!
GU: 6.00
E
A
S: 11.00-1.20
E
A
BT: 6.00 asleep in 20 mins

Sunday
WU: 5.43
GU: 6.00
E
A
S: 11.00-12.50 (I think by the time he went to sleep this was quite a short nap). I tried to APOP but no luck.
E
A
BT: 6.00. Was quiet but took at least 30 mins to fall asleep.

Today (Sunday) he was visibly reall tired and wanted to fall asleep at 9.30 in the pram so pretty sure sleeps today were OT and he was upset at bath and into bed time.

should I just continue?

[Buttonbobs]

I do think you have some OT built up but still think it has come from a UT/OT cycle. You had a really good nap on Saturday and possibly an UT nap on Sunday. I what about pushing BT slightly later - say 6.15 rather than 6 when you get a good nap. And maybe 11.15 for the nap itself, let's see if we can start dragging that morning a little later.

[labrodyk]

I could try a later bedtime on a good nap but I thought that since he never pushed the morning out that I should be giving him more rest to catch up. How do I know when to push the morning to 11.15 or should I do that from tomorrow? Today was only 4th day of transition.

[Buttonbobs]

In which case hold again today and if the pattern stay much the same then maybe push out a little more tomorrow x