15mo - routine disappeared - NW + SER!

[ZacsMumme]

Sorry sweetie, I haven't meant to ignore your thread. Lots of craziness in this house ATM

So I think you've of one SO well. Those days look great! I do think he's definitely caught up on the OT though and those chatty ENW are because he isn't tired. We get this a bit with T ATM too as teeth make him a bit OT (bad night or toe then catch up then hey I'm ok now and NOT tired )

I'd defiant eye keep the nap at 2 hrs, BT at 7 and accept anything past 6.30 as a reasonable WU. The 6 hrs A approx seems to be giving you a good nap so stick with that or you could set at around 1pm which is close to what your doing now anyway.

Did you give pain meds at 2.30? It may be worth trying them if you suspect pain and it could help prevent the next nw ie 5.66 screaming light sleep in early morning often wakes tom when he is teething.

Such great progress!

[labrodyk]

Thanks so much for responding Sara!! It is great progress and I've been doing what you say; days are like this

23/5
WU: 6.00
Nap: 12.45 - 2.45
Screaming, crying, tantrums all afternoon. Only calmed after dinner/before bath with an ice cube.
BT: 7.00
* nurofen and panadol

24/5
WU: 6.25 moan. 6.55 cot bang
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 12.45 - 2.45. Noises at 2.15/2.20 but quiet until 2.45 chatting.
BT: 7.00

25/5
WU: (?) 6.45. No monitor
Nap: 12.45 - 2.40 (legs banging on cot). Yawning from 11.30,tantrum before lunch after turning tv off.
BT: 7.20 (out for dinner)

26/5
WU: 6.20 chatting happily
OOB: 7.00
Nap attempt: put down at 12.45 but happily chatting and calling out "mum" still at 1.12. 5 mins later and he's really crying. Will do WI/WO.
Nap: 1.25 -
* was nodding off in car at 12! Was screaming his name and carrying on but very tired. Think he may have 'slept' for about 30-60 secs.


I'm having terrible battles, tantrums and excessive yawning from just before 12. It either extends into lunch where he just rubs his eyes and cries not eating but then is super happy after and runs around crazy before nap. OR, he's ok for lunch but then screams and cries all through pre-nap routine and into cot (although again, often running around or playing prior). I've been giving HEAPS of warning before the transition as was suggested and it is a lot better but I can't work out whether he is OT or UT at this point. it's a horrible part of the day I absolutely dread and would love to try and fix it...

[ZacsMumme]

His sleep looks really good, honestly. I wonder if not his behaviour is teething how is his mouth looking? Does giving pain meds help at all with his behaviour?

Certainly feel free to pd early if you think he needs extra sleep, you usually know pretty quick if you've made the wrong call lol

[Buttonbobs]

Is he still having a snack mid-morning? If so, what do you usually give at this point?

I agree with Sara that teething could be a major culprit xx

[labrodyk]

Thanks ladies!
He didn't fall asleep until 1.25 today and I woke him at 3. BT at 7.15. I swear he didn't close his eyes for more than a minute.

I can't see ANYTHING in his gums at all and he bites me hard the second I try and put a finger in to feel...it could be teething.

Mid morning snack is either a piece of fruit (pear), a plain biscuit or a rice cracker with cream cheese. Was thinking perhaps I should offer lunch earlier than 12 maybe to preempt crankiness?

Falling asleep in the car earlier than nap time - is that a sign of OT? I shouldn't be putting him down earlier?

Also; I'm heading into town tomorrow arriving at 11.30am for lunch. I was hoping to get through some lunch then pop in pram with comforters around 1? Is this wishful thinking? We're catching the bus in so for my transport OBSESSED 19mo I doubt he'll sleep around 10.30. Any other suggestions?

[Buttonbobs]

You could offer lunch earlier, it will help potentially with the crankiness and if you need to go for an earlier nap one day can help with it being less stressful. It's worth a try anyway.

Falling asleep in the car could be a sign of tiredness, but it might not be  caused by naps being too late. Remember OT can be caused by teething or sleep being too soon.

If you have a trip out tomorrow I'd go with the flow and hope for a buggy nap and if you don't get one go for a CN in the afternoon when you eh home?

[labrodyk]

Thanks Naomi!!

We ended up with a 45min nap in the pram at 12.50 (took 10mins to drift off) then just lay quietly for another 45 mins. He was an absolute mess the rest of the afternoon so put to bed at 6.30 but got an an EW of 6am then he chatted to himself for an hour. Will aim for usual nap time today.

Thanks,
Laura

[Buttonbobs]

That sounds alright considering you were out and about. Good luck for today xx

[labrodyk]

WU: 6.00
Nap: 12.45 (not asleep until 1) then woke crying after 1hr20min. I tried to resettle in cot but he was sitting up and handing back comforters to get out. Got him out and he wouldn't stop crying so into pram and went for a walk thinking he might drop off but didn't. After a drink and snack he perked up and we had a play in the garden.
BT: will aim for 7

I know I sound neurotic worried and upset after a bad day but can't understand the crap sleep after such a long A time? Normally he crashes right out in 5 mins. How can one 45 min nap and EBT mess up so much?

Should I just ride this out sticking to our discussed set times of;
Nap: 12.45 - 2.45
BT: 7

[ZacsMumme]

I'd personally pull BT earlier but my kids tend to tack on....

[labrodyk]

I did that last night after a 45min nap all day Sara and got an early wake of 6am. Bit scared to do that again....

[ZacsMumme]

But Hun he did 11.5 hrs that night, that's not an EW that's a fantastic night. It looks like one of the longest nights you have had and you have had EW anyway on normal BT YK.

Usually I find after a few EBT to let them CU then when you think they have you push the A time and/or cap that nap and adjust the day.

All that said, you know your LO best and I'm not trying to push you. What about along WD and see how he goes for 7 BT. If he WU at 6 again though you may need to look at a slightly shorter day if you then get a shorter than 1.5 hr nap otherwise he will get more OT YK...

[labrodyk]

That's why I come to you ladies because I have no idea what I'm doing.

I don't deny the length of the night is great, i just can't get OOB at that time. I'm really not a morning person.
Besides that, I find it excruciatingly hard to keep the 12.45 nap time as it adds a whole hour onto the morning and then we short nap. We then very quickly get stuck in an EW and EBT loop which i hate because DH then barely sees him.

I agree I should have done EBT of 6.30 again but DH hasn't been home for days and I only read your message as they were in the bath. He was definitely tired if not very OT but is quiet in bed at least. I'm ready for the NW and 6am start though...

How long is it acceptable to him in bed for in the am? This morning I didn't get him out until 7 so a whole hour - mainly because I'm suffering from severe back pain and couldn't actually move when I heard him wake up!

[Buttonbobs]

How long is it acceptable to him in bed for in the am? This morning I didn't get him out until 7 so a whole hour - mainly because I'm suffering from severe back pain and couldn't actually move when I heard him wake up!

To be honest I do agree with Sara that this was actually a really good day. You say he must have been OT, but you did get a really good night, with no OT NWs so really the complaint is that it is too early for you. I do sympathise with this as I'm not a morning person either. I have a couple of suggestions:

1. Accept the earlier mornings. Try and change your own body clock by going to bed earlier and learning to live with it. He may just be an earlier morning kind of person; or

2. Leave him in bed until you're ready to get up. When E went through a patch of 5.30WUs without crying I left her to it and although I couldn't properly sleep as I could hear her I did doze in and out and physically my body was still resting.

I can't choose for you which is the right one. It is for you to work out what works best for your family.

Now the next thing I have to say is a bit off topic and I hope you will take it in the caring way I mean this, but I am more concerned about you really than your DS's sleep. I have had a look back over the pages of this thread and to be honest if my DD had slept as well as your DS during those months of her life I would probably be happy. I think I have said it to you before sweetie, but at some point as parents we do need to accept that our children are people and we only have limited control over what they choose to do, and this includes how much sleep they are getting. Your lovely boy is very clearly not in need of more sleep than he is getting at the moment.

So, my thoughts then turn to how you are coping with it. I hope you don't see this in any way as critical as this is not how I mean it. When DD was tiny I suffered with some fairly major anxiety and I recognise similar feelings in your posts. Do you feel ok? I have asked before is there is anywhere you can get more support, and I mean practically and emotionally, but I can see my question on this was not answered. Do you think perhaps speaking to someone might help with your anxiety around DS's sleep?

I am happy to continue to support you here with queries about sleep, but I do feel you would benefit from some in real life support with coping with the lack of control that we parents have over our loveable but frustrating LOs.

What do you think sweetie?

Many many (((((hugs)))))

[labrodyk]

Thank you for your concern Naomi, much appreciated.

I have my mum for a few hours sporadically every few months and my husband but that's all.

I'd be happy with H's sleep too if I didn't bear witness to incessant crying, whinging, tantrums, breath holding spells all whilst rubbing eyes and yawning every 5 minutes. I don't care if he doesn't sleep at all so long as he's happy and I don't spend my entire day trying to keep him awake or happy - which is what I do since he won't play independently.

Ontop of the above I'm hit, bitten, scratched, pinched, objects thrown at, hit over the head without absolutely any provocation or reason (completely out of the blue) constantly. Not as a result of frustration just, "hi mum here's a massive chunk out of your thigh whilst you're sitting on the toilet". Couple this with the constant crankiness and my assumption is that he might seemingly have quantity but certainly not quality sleep. Just from peering through his door he lays awake for at least 45mins of a supposed 2 hour nap then starts chatting but is crying in a heap on the lounge room floor within 30 mins!
The socialisation board has definitely been of help here.

I understand I sound like a crazy lunatic and I don't want to waste any more of anyone's time! Thanks so much for all your help! Will just keep pushing on and hopefully one day he'll just be happy and have a rest, and if at the very least be happy!!!