15mo - routine disappeared - NW + SER!

[Buttonbobs]

((Hugs)) honey

Stick with it xxx

[labrodyk]

I can't believe this thread is 15 pages long and we've been at this for 4 months and only slight progress. Today has been really shocking and he was SO ready for nap at 11.30am! We was whinging non-stop then screamed through lunch until he could sit on a big chair. Ate well after that but was then in a totally OT happy mood. Ie. was happy to play but tantrumed the second I approached or told him not to do something. He then cried uncontrollably the second I said nappy change/nap time and was just inconsolable and kicking and flailing on the change table so put straight into bed. He kept crying for a few mins before falling asleep.

He's not protesting or chatting or anything at bedtime so I don't know if that could be an issue and whether to change things there. Last night he coughed after 50 mins of being put down but without the video monitor it's hard to know exactly when he falls asleep. Wakeup is the same issue. The garbage collector was here at 5.00am and I think he wakes and then lays quietly for hours.

Last two days have been;

14/5
WU: 6.18
Nap: 12.45 - 2.30 *moan*. Went in to dozing/awake Harry @ 2.45 as he hadn't started chatting yet.
BT: 7.00. Quiet but cough at 7.55

15/5
WU: 6.40. Crying and upset (massive nappy leak!)
Nap: 12.45

Do I just carry on? I assume so...but it's so incredibly draining and I feel like I'm constantly doing the wrong thing

[ZacsMumme]

I don't think the routine is wrong Hun. It's just what they do at this age YK? T sometimes wakes mid nap, or does a short one and usually it's teething, or an OS day or blocked nose. He EW some mornings with sore teeth, or because he's just having a bad morning.

I honestly think your worrying too much, it's what we do to ourselves unfortunately I worried SO much with Z all the time, but with T I realise that they're just like we are, good days, bad days, days they can't sleep, days they're just grumpy. Trust your doing ok Hun, because you are!

If he's really unhappy, I would try offering pain meds and see if he perks up. At this age teething causes most of our misery tbh.

[Buttonbobs]

I don't think the routine is wrong Hun. It's just what they do at this age YK?

I have to say, I do agree with this honey. I would say that unless you're getting EWs or long or difficult NWs then the routine is probably ok. Have you had a look at some of the threads on the discipline and socialisation board, it might help give you an idea of the sorts of things other parents are dealing with with their toddlers. It does all sound pretty normal to me, not that it's easy to deal with and it is exhausting as a parent, but perhaps it will help you to feel less worried about it.

[BeeAnn]

I just wanted to add that I think that his routine sounds quite good (it is pretty similar to my DD's and she is just a bit younger).  Her behaviour also goes through off periods and I just put it down to being a toddler!

I also know you have mentioned quite a few times that it is hard to know if he is asleep or not without a video monitor, and that you are concerned he is awake for ages in the morning without you knowing.  Is it worth you getting one just for peace of mind that he is sleeping and so that you aren't listening out for every little noise he is making?

We have a video monitor and you would be surprised at how much moaning, crying, coughing, fidgeting, bashing her head and arms against the cot etc that my DD makes without actually opening her eyes or being awake.  I think that they just do it in their sleep!  If you think about it a lot of adults are restless sleepers like that too.

Even if you do get a video monitor and you see his eyes are open then I wouldn't immediately panic as they do often open their eyes, fidget a bit and then go off to sleep!

[Miraclelim]

Hi I do agree with BeeAnn too. My dd is 17 mth in a few days. If u have read my post u would know I battle with EW and nws too. But your routine looks good very similar to ours too. She is currently teething molars so I think a lot of moods and grumpiness is down to them just being toddler and getting frustrated not able to tell u what they want. Teething causes a lot of tantrums and sleeplessness. I have just learnt to go with her flow as long as it's not everyday we have nws n I can cope with EW. Just let her lie in bed babbling to herself. Don't worry too much. I agree if u are so worried n constantly listening out have u thought of getting a video monitor. I have got one. I love it because even though she is awake at early morning she is happy in bed awake I don't have to rush in at every noise she makes. She does roll around a lot and cry in her sleep but not awake so I think it is a relieve I got a monitor otherwise I will have disturbed or woke her up if I have gone in.

[ZacsMumme]

Great advice and posts ladies! - funny how many of us there are with irritable 18-22 mth old toddlers aye

We toyed over getting a video monitor for T and decided not too as with Z I worried SO much, and then finally got over it and didn't want to go through it all again. Basically, if he's quiet in a dark room he is resting. Resting in the dark may not be sleep but it is not really full A time either. It also shows your LO can resettle himself and rest YK? I count naps from in the room quiet till I hear him, or if I have to resettle I put the two nap lengths together, often during resettling T isn't even awake fully anyway. So me with the morning. The odd noise at 5 then nothing till 6 IMO is still sleep.

Video monitors can be fantastic, but they can also be awful things for fostering anxiety about our babies/toddlers sleep.

[labrodyk]

You ladies are so lovely - thank you so much for the reassurance.

I think as you can all tell I'm already super anxious about sleep which is why DH and I didn't get a video monitor. I think it would just make me even worse, if that's possible.

I agree that H is really frustrated by his language barrier (although he is a really good little talker) but understands the word "nap" and "nappy change" and that when I say them he has to leave what he's doing (even if he's wrecked) and sleep! It's so frustrating and upsetting putting him down when he's screaming because at night it is completely opposite and such a lovely time with a cuddle, prayer, lullaby and into bed without a peep.

Here are our EAS carrying on from yesterday;
15/5
WU: 6.40. Crying and upset (due to nappy leak I think!)
Nap: 12.45 - 2.53
BT: 7.00

NW: 11.37 crying for a few minutes
NW: 12.37 a couple of secs crying
* was probably trying hard to go to back to sleep here but couldn't.

16/5
WU: 6.18

I'm trying really hard and reading some stickies and posts on the boards suggested. I just really need some help getting Harry to calm down and not tantrum before a nap.

[kaipooi]

Do you give him enough warning in advance? DS gets like that when I don't let him know beforehand. When he was much younger, I did the 5, 3, 2, 1 minute warning and then it was off to start our routine. Now that he is 27 months old, I tell him that once a song/tv program/activity ends, it is time for nap/bed time. A few times I had forgotten to give a warning and he threw a fit. See if it helps if you are not already doing it.

[Buttonbobs]

I agree with ^^^ absolutely. When are started becoming more aware we needed to give her advance notice of things changing, especially if she was enjoying herself playing.

Another thing is tantrums before nap time could mean he is a little UT still at the point you're trying to settle him. Maybe only a touch, so why not try a 15 min later nap time now your mornings have come up a bit later?

[labrodyk]

Thanks so much!!

I have been using advance warning but perhaps not as well as I should. Today I did 5,3,2,1 and he was so much better and even let me change him (car in hand!!).  Had a little fight in my arms but once I lay him down he was fine and asleep in 5ish minutes.

Nap was 12.45 - 2.30 and BT at 7 so was happy with that! He was also really happy tonight and obliging to brush teeth and hop into bed so that made me smile

He was really happy playing today so you're right, it could be slightly UT but most times when he's fought me before nap he's been cranky leading up to it and not happily playing so I thought that was more OT?

Mornings are chatting mostly from precisely 6.18 so I might try the additional notice before nap just for another day or so and see what happens.

ETA:
I have no idea what's going on but Harry keeps waking crying, twice now in less than an hour.
NW: 9.30
NW: 10.15
I haven't been in yet and hope he settles soon.

Poor little man has woken every 15 mins. I went in at 10.45 and gave nurofen, cuddle and cranked up the humidifier - I think he's sick

[Buttonbobs]

Oh poor sausage - I was going to say teething or illness. Sorry if he is sick, just go with the flow while he's ill and let him sleep as much as he needs to.

I would say crankiness up to fussing before naps and BT could be OT but if you're getting lots of crankiness anyway, it could well be UT with just a grumpy toddler behavior beforehand.

Sending get well vibes

[ZacsMumme]

Believe it or not teeth can cause a sleepless night but if not that he sounds sick sorry Hun. Lots of cuddles and just go ieth the flow till he's well

[labrodyk]

Hello ladies! Seems we all have a stuffy head cold here - DS, DH & I. After the restless night 2 nights ago, it was followed by a perfect night but last night was terrible!

17/5
WU: 6.30
Nap: 12.50 - 2.35
BT: 7.00

18/5
WU: 6.40
Nap: 12.50 - 2.35
BT: 7.00

NW: 12.30 - cried for a few mins but settled
NW: 2.00 - another little cry
NW: 2.15 - cried absolutely blue murder and I went in straight away to find his legs and gro bag completely stuck in the cot bars.
I moved him back and also gave him a dose of nurofen as he sounded congested. He wasn't happy when I left but settled after a few minutes. Well at least I thought he had.
He was still waking and crying off and on but by 3.30 I went in.
NW: 3.30. Screaming so gave him cuddles for about 15mins and then sat next to the cot where he was WIDE awake but left when he was calm. Crying started again.
The next hour or so he continued to lay quiet then cry every 10-15 mins but it didn't sound like a pain cry but rather an "I want to get back to sleep but can't" cry.

I fell asleep so not sure when he did but he woke and fell back asleep around 6.30am for another hour.

19/5
WU: 6.40 but fell back to sleep until 7.40
Nap: ??

Not sure what is happening - I assume just sickness & potentially teeth (although I can't see ANYTHING) rather than OT/UT? I might need to pull the nap back a bit today or should I just push through to 12.45/50?

Many thanks,
Laura

ETA
Nap: 12.45 - 2.25
BT: 7.00

[labrodyk]

Hello, me AGAIN!

We've been going really well despite sickness but after a great nap yesterday we got NW and early rising. Since I've been keeping BT at 7 our WU has also really improved. So should I cap the nap at 2hrs to start?
EAS below;


19/5
WU: 6.40. RS until 7.40 (catch up from shocking night I think)
Nap: 12.45 - 2.25
BT: 7.00

20/5
WU: 6.25. RS until 7
Nap: 12.45 - 3.00
BT: 7.00

NW: 10.53 & 2.30 call out cry

21/5
WU: 7.05
Nap: 12.45 - 2.35
BT: 7.05

22/5
WU: 6.45h
Nap: 12.40 - 2.58
BT: 7.05

NW: 11.10 call out. 11.23 whinging
NW: 2.30
NW: 5.55 screaming. Settled and chatting at 6.10, 6.30 & 6.53