Predictable Unpredictability - Please help us!

[becj86]

Could possibly do 2hrs, watching from 1hr50 if you think that might help?

I think that's reasonable given how she's gone the last few days.

1.5hr is restorative - 2 x sleep cycles, no more required than that. If she's napped >1:15, just get her up.

She sounds like she just like that long A to bed, then. Not a bad thing, just useful to know when making a routine. My DS preferred a really long first A and a short A to bed, every LO is different.

[labrodyk]

She sounds like she just like that long A to bed, then. Not a bad thing, just useful to know when making a routine. My DS preferred a really long first A and a short A to bed, every LO is different.

What would you suggest for this. Ideally bedtime would fall between 7 and 7.30. If it's just a catnap vs a sleep what would be a reasonable A?

The day has been a bit hit and miss but I think you're right about longer than normal A's. DS was similar (but he preferred short A to bed). I'm just so useless with A times, is fixed naps too early at this stage?

WU: 7.30 (woken)
E: 7.40 (140ml)
A:
S: 9.15, in bed at 9.20. Cried for 10 minutes until 9.29 and woke at 10.08.
Rs: ~10.30
S: 10.30-10.40
A: had to run an urgent errand
E: 11.30
S: 12.30; fell asleep in the car. Tried to transfer but woke and struggled to get back to sleep.
RS: Patting in my arms; put into bed at 1.15
S: 1.15-2.30 so far...

If she needs that long A to bed and I wake her at 2.5hrs sleep ending at 3.45; how do I fit in that catnap? Or do I miss it and push BT to 6.00pm? Eeek

[labrodyk]

I decided (maybe stupidly) not to end that nap and she woke at 4.00pm

S: 1.15-4.00
E: 4.05 (120ml)
A: bath. Yawned/rubbed eyes
E: 6.45 top-up (30ml)
S: 6.00; protesting for 40 minutes, of course I intervened but the more I comforted the more distressed she became. I lay my hand on her belly until she finally fell asleep at 6.40.

Tomorrow I have a funeral to attend and my MIL is watching her (and DS) so I doubt she'll have much sleep....

[becj86]

I reckon she may fall asleep more quickly if you give her 2.5hr to bed - seems to be a trend for her so far.

Some babies do get more upset f you help them - totally fine to leave her if she's happy, just thought she might have been having a bit of a hard time falling asleep but if you're distracting her or upsetting her, just leave her to it if she's fine.

Well, sorry to hear about the funeral. Hope MIL is able to get her a little sleep. Maybe do a 2hr A time  and assume a 1.5hr nap and just ask her to PD for naps at whatever times based on when she wakes. DYT that would work? eg. if she wakes at 7am, ask MIL to PD at 9 and 12:30...

That long nap could be a sign she's shaking off whatever OT buildup she had from the short naps and will be ready for a new attempt at the 2hr A time (watching from 1:50). FX for you that tomorrow isn't too bad.

[labrodyk]

2.5 A to bed - I can try that. She's woken at 7.20pm after 40 minutes crying (she went down at 6pm pretty distressed crying hard) I thought maybe OT rather than UT but you might be right. She's really struggling to get back to sleep now. I'm patting her, only for her to wake up every 5-10 mins crying.

Will leave instructions for MIL...

[becj86]

Yeah, it could well be OT, hard to tell :-/ Worst it can do is make her OT at BT (which she already is sometimes and not others) and we know and can reduce A to BT again.

[labrodyk]

Ok, so in order to keep A time at 2.5hrs by bedtime should I be nap capping through the day and should I be aiming for a 12hr day? If the catnap doesn't come and the last nap is too far from bedtime - what's the earliest I should put her down

Also; I'm trying to work out how to structure our after bath A. I do offer a feed but should this be done in the dark of her room, out in the lounge followed by books etc to break up the E and S or will that just be overstimulation. I found tonight that she was falling asleep on the bottle at 1hr45A with little lighting in her room but then when I read her a book (which is actually quite hard in the dark! Haha) she must have picked up a second wind and she was wide awake again. Just trying to find that sweet spot without creating a sleep association but also not revving her up.

[becj86]

Its ok to have her pretty relaxed before BT - your choice, really, what do you see yourself doing when she's 12 months? FWIW, books were too OS for DS until 2.5yo so we just read them during the day, usually straight after a feed so he could wind back down again enough for a nap

I think given how long she's taking to fall asleep, its probably worth keeping her calm and sleepy before BT.

12hr day isn't the be all and end all - 13hr day/11hr night is fine and I think manageable.

I'm imagining something like this:
7 - wake
9 - nap
10:30 - wake
12:30 - nap
2 - wake
4 - nap
5:30 - wake
7:30/8 - asleep in bed

OR

4:45 - wake
6:30/7 - asleep in bed

[labrodyk]

This is so helpful, thank you. Should I be waking her after 1.5hrs sleep during the day or perhaps no longer than 2hrs just so I can got enough sleep in that she's not OT by bedtime.

She's been rubbing her eyes from 1hr10 A this morning so I hope I'm doing the right thing with the longer 2hr A.

[becj86]

No, wake her after 2hr if she goes that long, not at 1.5 though. Fine to do a CN for nap 3 if she's had 2x2hr naps, yk?

[labrodyk]

Thanks Bec

Unfortunately she was unconsolable from 9am and went down crying at 9.08 until she fell asleep at 9.18 but has woken 30 minutes later at 9.50.

WU: 7.15
Nap: 9.08; absolutely hysterical crying I calmed enough to put her down. Protesting until asleep 9.18-9.50
RS: ~10.20
S: 10.20-11.10

We left for the funeral just before she woke so the rest of the day was whacky!
E
A
S: MIL attempted nap at 1.00pm. Apparently wouldn't settle so she got DD up.
A
S: 2.00pm - 3.30pm
E:
A:
E: 5.40pm. 110ml
S: 6.00pm; big cry but fell asleep at 6.13pm

I know today was off but I'm nervous that the A times are too long. Do you think it could just be an adjustment period or should I pull them back?

[labrodyk]

Good morning!

We had a good night last night;

DF: 10.30 (110ml)
NF: 3.25 (130ml)
WU: 6.50
E: 7.00 (110ml, took almost an hour to drink, wasn't interested)

It's only been an hour awake and she's started rubbing her eyes and whinging again...am I keeping her up a whole hour too long?

[becj86]

No, A time of 1hr is really that of a newborn and opens you up to long happy NWs and/or lots of NWs in the early hours of the morning. This is the hardest A time to push but its also the one that makes the biggest difference to routine and night sleep. You could stick with 1:45 if she's really struggling, that would be normal for her age but she was doing UT naps on that, hence the suggestion of 2hr.

Is she distractable? What happens if you have take her somewhere else or do something different when she is whining?

[labrodyk]

Hi Bec!!

She really is great and doesn't cry much, even when tired and can be distracted but her cues are getting quite obvious! When we enter my bedroom and she's tired she'll cry, rub eyes and yawn a lot during wind down in my arms or on the change table.

This was our day today! Her cues were so obvious each time I put her down...


WU: 6.50
E: 7.00 (120ml over an hour)
A: **tired signs at 8.00am, yawns x2 at 8.30.
S: 8.35; asleep 8.45 - 10.45
E: 11.00
A:
S: 12.45, asleep 12.53 - 1.34.
Rs: ~2.05. No luck
E: 2.15
A:
S: 3.30; asleep 3.40-4.20
E: 5.30
A:
E: 6.15
S: 6.30; asleep 6.50

[becj86]

Awesome, much less time stuck in a dark room resettling, much more sleep for her (though still 2 x UT CNs in there) and WOOHOO! to seeing cues, that's great. She may even be a LO who does well with a short 1st A, longer 2nd A and longer 3rd A. They do exist.

Note that the first A time was in reality 1:45, so its not a terrible thing to push that bit more than she looks like she can handle.

Generally if the whinging continues after you've moved to another activity, she's probably ready to go for a nap but if it abates for 5-10min then starts again, think about it being boredom rather than tiredness.

You've done really well, today was so much better than those first few. You're sounding more relaxed.