Predictable Unpredictability - Please help us!

[becj86]

Still a lot of short naps in there and still such variation with feeds. I've offered everything that's currently in my toolbox :-/ I really don't know what to suggest

[labrodyk]

  thanks for everything Bec, I figured as much. Guess we'll just fudge our way through

[labrodyk]

Sorry Bec - quick question...

what would you consider this length of A time between first and second nap today and why again would she short nap?!

WU: 7.00am
E: 7.10 (180ml)
A:
E: 8.000 (solids)
A:
S: 9.05; 9.20-10.20 (awake earlier). chatting and rolling until 10.35 when she got upset. OOB at 10.40
E: 11.00 (180ml)
A
E: 12.15 (solids)
A:
S: 1.00; 1.05-1.45. Playing with her comforter for 5-10 minutes before getting agitated. Cried on and off for 40 minutes.
S: 2.20-3.00
E: 3.15 (150ml)
A:
S: 5.00. Protested for almost 30 minutes. Slept 5.28-5.58.  Is this UT or OT?
E: 5.15 (solids)
A:
E: 6.35
BT: 7.50; 8.30pm asleep after rolling around and protesting


Annoyingly the second nap was the first nap in ages she hasn't cried when I went to her bedroom, or changed her nappy, or put her down! I don't get it

[becj86]

Hi, sorry I didn't get back to you - we had a bereavement in the family 8 March, so I've been out of action for a bit.

I think I'd have called that 2.5hr A for that second A, hard to know with these bits of time spent in bed but not asleep, yk?

That 3rd nap would be OT I think, but could be habit if you'd been capping them short to preserve BT...

How is Miss Audrey going now?

[labrodyk]

Oh Bec, I'm terribly sorry for your loss. Absolutely no need to apologize.

I pushed the A times considerably to 2hr45 up to 3hrs again after advice on another thread and all that I was left with was a short napping (1hr15min MAX but mostly 30ish mins), overtired mess of a baby. We're sitting at around 2hrs20min into bed to bring total A to around 2.5hrs. Except for bedtime. Hubby's been putting Audrey into bed at the 2hr mark and she'd been drifting off quietly and within 10 minutes. Last night we pushed to 2.5hrs and she struggled a bit, whinging/moaning and taking a little over 20 minutes. Looked and sounded much like how she settled this morning but only after 2hrs20 minutes where she's woken crying after 30 minutes.

She's waking once in the night which I know is normal but she's not taking a big feed (anywhere from 90-180ml, major differences each night). Should I try and cut this feed out do you think? Perhaps this would adjust her appetite during the day which is ZILCH, with or without solids.

Tuesday 22/3
WU: 6.50, fell back asleep until 7.40. Hubby accidentally woke her.
E: 180ml
E: solids, a few tsp of apple and BLW (toast crust and a piece of orange)
Nap 1: 10.00; 10.05-12.13
E: 100ml (took over an hour).
A:
S: 2.38; 2.45-3.19.
S: 4.24-5.07
^^sleepy sound cries in my arms.
BT: 7.15; 7.27
NF: 2.40 (180ml)
S: 3.00-7.10

Wednesday 23/3
WU: 7.10
Nap: 9.33; 9.38-11.08
Nap 2: 1.32; 1.37-3.48
BT: 6.27; 6.47 asleep after whinging and moaning.
NF: 2.25; 2.35.
S: 2.45-6.55

Thursday 24/3
WU: 6.55
Nap 1: 9.25, 9.30-10.00. Woke crying and is now lying there awake, chatting and crying.

[becj86]

I guess you've probably tried it all... I wonder though if you'd tried feeding when she wakes instead of spacing feeds more, so she's a bit drowsy - DYT that might help her take more in the day? Maybe distraction is an issue? I just don't know wrt her feeding -  do know that 1 waking is still normal at this age, so she may just need it, and having that feed at varying times increases the likelihood its necessary rather than habitual.
Wednesday was good if slightly short.

1:15 is UT and 30min OT - I'm starting to think OS just because its so consistent with her even though the A times are ones we know she can cope with, yk? Have you tried some tight hugs as part of your wind down, just to help her let out some of that extra energy that comes from having big brother around?

[labrodyk]

I don't think 1hr15min is UT for us... When we pushed to 2hr45-3hr A she woke screaming tired and I was having to really really keep her happy during that time. Constant playing and holding.

We have cuddles as part of our wind down.

Nap 2: 1.20;1.25-1.55. Cried and struggled but resettled at 2.30-3.13.
Nap 3: trying for a nap at 5.30 but I don't think it's going to go well. I should just put down at 6.

ETA. She cried hysterically around 5.30 and crashed with a minute of shush/pat in my arms. Slept about 30 minutes having a cuddle.

A time back to being in bed at 2hrs and she didn't say a word! No moaning/whinging/rolling. Drifted off quietly after 5-10minutes.

Could I have this completely wrong and she's actually high sleep needs? I much prefer the happy, no-nonsense self settling than watching her struggle with a longer A time. Having a look at the average A times, I know she's late 5 months old but there's something going on with her and I can't pick it.

I also tried different bottle teat this afternoon and tonight and she actually drank a huge 210ml so will see if that has a positive or negative affect on her tonight. I have been feeding her when she wakes also, not holding her out. She hasn't wanted it then and will fuss with the bottle, push it away and just not drink. Will see how she goes in the night and tomorrow with this different bottle.

[becj86]

Maybe she is HSN - is she taking long naps on the shorter A time? It could just be what she's used to but if its not leaving her having long wakings in the early hours of the morning and she's happy and getting off to sleep well, stick with it, I say!

She's definitely hard to pick!

[labrodyk]

Sorry Bec! I was updating my post to add exactly what you wrote. HSN? She goes off to sleep far better on the lower A times but doesn't necessarily sleep as long but then there are days she does 1.5-2hrs at that morning sleep. No long chatty early morning wakings lately!

[becj86]

BW is really about listening to LO's needs - if she's happy and its not an issue to have shorter naps and she's still sleeping well at night, I'd stick with what's working.

She might not necessarily be HSN, she may be bang on average and just want her sleep in smaller chunks, yk? Most babies who are sleeping shorter naps are OT by the end of the day and not sleeping well through the early hours of the night and if there's also too short an A time first thing in the morning, some LOs will also have long happy NWs in the early hours of the morning.

[labrodyk]

Thanks Bec! Well we don't have long happy night wakings. At the 3hr mark before BT she was waking after 40 minutes screaming so we assumed this was too much and pulled back but since we've done that the 40 minute wakings have stopped.

Coincidentally last night's NW/NF was about 5 minutes different from the previous night at 2.18 and 2.25. This morning, after drinking 180ml in the night, she drank maybe 90ml of her morning bottle and that was it.

The day then followed on very poorly and Again, everything is just as unpredictable as always. Here I was thinking we had at least something right! She didn't appear very tired this morning before her nap but then when taken away from the stimulation she was showing tired signs. I thought maybe i could set some rhythm if I kept to the A time that was working but I give up!! Lol.

Thursday
BT: 8.00; 8.10-2.18
NF: 2.18; 2.30 fed.
S: 2.45-7.36

Friday
WU: 7.36
Nap 1: 10.10; 10.15-10.53.
Didn't get her out of bed until 11.40.
Nap 2: 1.50; 1.53-2.26. Then 3.11-3.45
BT: 6.00; 6.20 after a bit of a whinge. Woke after 40 minutes but rolled to her side and is quietly playing with her comforter.

[becj86]

Have you tried reducing that NF a bit to see if she'll feed better in the AM? I think you did with no change but could be wrong...

[labrodyk]

I'm going to start doing that. I did 180 last night, going to do 150 a few nights and keep going and see what happens.

[becj86]

Fingers crossed for you!

[labrodyk]

Thanks Bec!

Woke at 1.30 crying but must have fallen back asleep because I didn't hear from her for another hour at 2.30 (unless she was awake that whole time whilst I was asleep?). Woke exactly the same time as the last 2 nights (around 2.30). She drank the 150ml and fell straight back asleep, waking just after 7.30am.
I tried for a good hour and finally got her to finish her morning bottle but it takes much too long. Fussing, pushing it away, carrying on and just so distracted. Unfortunately when I put her down at 10.05 she was crying hysterically. I sat down with her in the chair and held her tight and she was falling asleep in my arms so quickly popped her in her cot. She cried for about 5 minutes before falling asleep, woke after 1hr15minutes crying but then started chatting. She's really windy today, that could be why.

Nap 1: 10.05; 10.11-11.26. Woke crying before chatting.
Nap 2: 1.40; 1.50-2.32.
Nap 3: 4.45; 4.55-5.26. cried for about 5 minutes going down.