Longer and confusing NW

[trimbler]

Hi there, hope you enjoy the trip and manage not to worry too much - I'll try to follow that advice next weekend

Asked around for the link, was broken, now fixed, so here it is The first link on the page has stuff specific to changing time zones, but you may find other bits useful, sorry if it's a bit late now

Travel tips and activities for a baby/toddler - BY AIR

[JennVanessa1083]

Thank you Timbler!

I checked out the links briefly before I left. Thankfully I loosely followed the EASY. We weren't there long enough for DS to wake later than 6 am but I figure it will make the transition easier (hopefully!). He is OT of course but handled it rather well while away. We traveled back today which was harder on him since we went 3 hours forward this time. I am bracing myself for a very rough night!

I'm going to follow the routine we agreed on before the trip and reevaluate after a week.

I am wondering how to get back on track in terms of SS. I did a loads of APOP on the trip which lasted a week. I nursed to sleep for naps and bedtime, tons of car naps, and holding to sleep as well as co-sleeping (which has been going on for months but on the trip became more cumbersome for me). I just tried setting him down at my parents house and he wasn't having it lol to be fair he's jet lagged and we are still not home. Any tips?

I hope you enjoyed your trip as well!

[trimbler]

Hi there and welcome back Glad to hear he handled it all well, despite the OT, hope you enjoyed it too? We're actually leaving on Friday, back late Monday, so won't be around here during that time. No time changes involved for us, thankfully, just the usual disruptive travel (neither of mine were any good at sleeping on the go ) and all being in the same room, etc.

Tbh I'd try to get back on top of SS as soon as you can, if you're too exhausted the first night back I don't blame you, but certainly after that, iiwm I'd try to be consistent and yes it might be a rough day or two, but then it probably would be anyway - you should find that he'll catch on much quicker this time so even if it's a rough start, things should improve soon if you don't cave in You'll probably need to give him a few EBTs whilst he catches up with the OT though.

[JennVanessa1083]

Well it's great you don't have to worry about time differences! I hope you all enjoy yourselves!

As for me, I tried to put him down for a nap in the crib and it was an utter fail. I aimed for the 3.5 first A. He cried and screamed a very high pitched cry like in pain rolling around and tugging his ear. I PU until he was calm and drowsy then put back down but he reacted the same. I do notice his two lateral incisors are about to cut through now so looks like that could be factoring into it. I gave him teething tablets but perhaps it's not enough. Perfect timing with us being back and me trying to get him back to the crib and SS 

So now what? Do I try a gradual withdrawal or just plow on?

If it's not one thing it's another with these babes!

[trimbler]

Aw poor thing have you tried pain meds, eg ibuprofen? If the teeth are really bothering him then I wouldn't worry about using medication, I'd positively encourage it! I just wonder about the high pitched scream on PD... Do you think that lying flat is causing him pain? That could be due to reflux (tends to flare with teething) or even an ear infection (any other symptoms of that, other than ear tugging, which apparently is usually associated with teething rather than ear infection?). Or do you think he's just protesting the change in routine from the last week?

I've asked others to look out for you whilst I'm away

[JennVanessa1083]

I haven't used meds for naps only nighttime which definitely helps. Poor thing is on a biting rampage to help his gums. He's fussy and tugs his ear or hair but no other symptoms that would indicate an ear infection. He's also very clingy which is the norm when he's about to cut teeth or he may be clingy from the trip too. Maybe the plane ride did something? Maybe I should call the doctor?

I think it's a mix of teething and clinginess that is making him cry so hard and high pitch bc when I picked him up he somewhat calmed down. I also think he may be jet lagged too. I let him sleep and he woke up after about 1.25; I just got him down after a 4 hr A. Our time is so off due to the time difference. He woke up at 9 today! Hoping to get him back to a 7:30 wake up time soon.

I also plan on doing a gradual withdrawal for sleep. Tomorrow I want to put him in the crib asleep and work my way backwards from there.

I appreciate vouching for support while you're gone. I so appreciate this! I feel like things are all over the place routine wise. I am trying to remind myself that it will take some time to get back on track.

[JennVanessa1083]

Well today he played and played in his crib after crying a little after I set him down. I tried at about 3.25 bc he was acting as though he was tired at about 3 hrs A. I figured well he is teething and it's bothering him loads where he woke up 4 times last night despite giving him meds, so maybe he's just more tired. But that was a total fail! Finally  at about 3:40A, he  started crying I tried PD and it made him angrier and cry harder. He screamed and cried very high pitch until I picked him up He finally fell asleep in my arms at about 3.75A then I put down in crib. He woke up 32 minutes later ugh.

 I don't know if it's because he needs a jump in A despite me doing a short am/long pm? Or is it because he's still on a 3 hour time difference routine where his wake up is now 10am?! So his body is all out of whack in terms of sleep readiness?or is his teeth bothering him so much that he's extra clingy and unable to get comfortable?  All of a sudden he hates his crib!

I know we just got back and maybe I need to be patient with getting back on track but wondering if any thoughts or tips on this type of situation?

I'm about to start medicating for naps too if it isn't a routine thing. Right now I'm using tablets and Camila before naps.

Update: last night he was up every 2 hours! Not sure if it's teething or OT or UT/OT?! Ahhhhh we were making such amazing progress before the trip !

[JennVanessa1083]

I could really use a little help on DS's routine.

Yesterday he did a 2 hr am nap and 30 minute pm nap. Usually he does a short am/long pm nap but yesterday passed out after nursing. He is teething really badly and despite me cutting his first A by 15 minutes hoping for a UT nap he was still pretty exhausted. Anyways last night I got a long playful NW between 5-6 despite feeding him; he was WIDE awake and chatty. Then he woke up early, only after 9 hours of sleep! I assume he had too much day sleep and/or not enough A?

Since getting back from our trip, I can't figure out his A times anymore!

This is where we were beforehand:

WU 7:30
S 11-11:45 am
S 3:30-5pm
BT 8:30 pm

Now its all over the place where he will give me an OT nap of 30 minutes and I will resettle and let him go for an hour then he fights his pm nap until around 4 hrs A and give me a 40-45 minute nap. I'll do BT 3.25 hrs later and he is restless. Tossing and turning then waking up 1.5 hrs after BT. After that, he will wake two more times.

Anyone have any thoughts? Should I just maintain the same routine from before the trip in hopes that this will pass or should I tweak somewhere? DS is about to be 11 months in two days.

Thank you!

[ginger428]

Hi Jenn, many hugs! I know how awful nws are and the broken sleep is so hard! I haven't read through the entire thread, but please remind me when you returned from your trip? (Nm! Found it! 4/27!)

So what was his EAS yesterday? I see that you've posted in naps and are getting support with the teething. That was also a huge deal for us during this time as well... tons of unsettled sleep.

I think you're seeing a combo of too much day sleep and adjusting to time change like you said (but should take 2-5 days depending on the child to reset with enough light exposure), teething, then consequently OT from the unsettled sleep.  I know... all answers so it's like no answer. It's so hard when so much is going on. At this point, would you be willing to try set WU time, nap times and morning nap length (with teething meds/support and/or resettles) and see how he does after 3-4 days?

[JennVanessa1083]

Hi Ginger!

Thank you so much for your response. I feel I'm kinda in the dark with his sleep. Truthfully he has always been a tough nut to crack and seems to be affected by anything and everything lol

Anyways, thankfully today he started his day at 8 which is a half hour later than his usual WU prior to the trip. So I guess the short UT/OT night was a blessing in disguise. I was kinda hoping for a later WU since I too am still adjusting lol

So this has been his EASY for yesterday:

NW 11:31 pm, 5 am (fed)

Total 11.5

WU 8:43 am
S 11:56- 12:28 pm (A 3:14; biting a lot and irritable but tired)
S 12:36-1:55 pm (after nursing which is very unusual )
S 6:05-6:38 (A 4/10; fighting sleep and not tired)
BT 10:01 pm (A 3:24; was not going to sleep; restless and stirred at 1.5 hrs)

NW for last night were 2:48 am (fed since he was rooting and crying), 5:30-6:20ish (fed; but wide awake and chatty)

Today thus far:

Total ~9.25

WU 7:58 am
S 11:21-11:54 am (A 3:22; fighting sleep beforehand but yawning)

I am willing to do a set WU for 7:30. He seems to do around an 11 hour night unless he is catching up on sleep or just really tired from say illness or teething then he does a 12 hour night.

I'm wondering where to start with naps to actually set them. I like the short am/long pm bc whenever he does a long am, he can go over 4hrsA and still fight the nap so I think it would make the day too long?

[ginger428]

I guess he's adjusting to morning wake up faster than you. and Happy 11 months!

That was a short night for him wasn't it? For a shorter pm nap like that I would put down for bed a little earlier. When did you actually out him down and when did he fall asleep?

For naps, Maybe aim for the routine you had before if it was working before the trip. If the morning nap is 30 mins, bring the afternoon nap slightly earlier if DS seems tired and keep bedtime the same so that he's tired for it. If naps don't fall into place in a few days, we can add to your post jn Naps to get eyes there.

Has his NWs reduced to 2 from more? How are you putting him back down after feeds? Are you trying to wean the night feedings?

[JennVanessa1083]

Hi Ginger!

Thank you! Yes he's quite the character at 11 months 

Yes anything less than 10.5 night sleep is short for him. The A times I listed are the times he actually falls asleep. It usually takes him 5-10 minutes to drift off unless he's fighting sleep then it tends to be more. I aim for the routine we had but the pm nap is beginning to be a fight at 3.75 A so not sure if it means he's OT (from teething) or UT bc he's been on this routine for a bit. So confusing isn't it?

This was yesterday's EASY:

WU 7:58 am
S 11:21-11:54 am (A 3:22; fighting sleep beforehand but yawning;
S 3:36- 5:29 pm (A 3:42; fought sleep a little biting my sleeves; PD in crib; woke up at 38 and again briefly at 48 fussy took 4 minutes to resettle. Maybe slightly UT or OT)
BT 9:11 pm (A 3:42; fought bedtime)

NW 12:35, 1:20 (fed), 5:20 (fed),

Woke up at 8:12 I nursed him then he fell back asleep until 9 

Today he did a 30 minute am (I woke) after a 3.25 which he didn't put up a fight which was nice; then the pm he fought a bit and went down close to 4 hrs A then wakes up at 26 minutes crying He just plays and plays until windown. Then fights sleep at 3:75. Again not sure if it's teething related, OT or just not tired enough.

Last night he had 4 NW but slept in so had a 12 hour night! He usually does an 11 hour night. I admit I didn't set my alarm clock so we slept in.

Before the trip and the teething business, he was self weaning and I was encouraging it by resettling in other ways if he woke before 6 hours after a feed. He was down to 1 or 2 NF. I was working on eliminating one NF to then to ultimately wean completely. With the teething he just wants to nurse so I. Feel like we are back to square one. Last night he nursed 3 times despite my efforts to resettle him without a feed.

So I'm overall confused about the pm nap and bedtime. I'm ok with a short am nap but then it has gotten mucky with the A after the am nap then the A after the pm.

So I'm thinking while he's teething putting him down for the am at 3.25A for a 30-45 minute nap. After that I'm clueless bc he's giving me a mixed bag.

[ginger428]

Truthfully he has always been a tough nut to crack and seems to be affected by anything and everything lol

Sounds like my DS! And all your efforts, very similar to my struggles around that time.  Dropped to 1 NF, then with holidays and new surroundings, etc... added a comfort feed. Became a habit and had to sleep train, unfortunately. And naps were on and off for us... crazy bad or pretty good, which also required some gentle training.  He might be extending his A's but hard to tell... and this period is hard because with 3-4 A times, it's hard to fit in the naps!

S 3:36- 5:29 pm (A 3:42; fought sleep a little biting my sleeves; PD in crib; woke up at 38 and again briefly at 48 fussy took 4 minutes to resettle. Maybe slightly UT or OT)BT 9:11 pm (A 3:42; fought bedtime)

I can't seem to find when you start your bt routine after the last pm nap... sorry if I missed it. I gather he is uncomfortable with teeth and wants comfort, but he may still be OT with all the unsettled sleep... especially if he woke in the first part of the night (within 3 hours). Is he showing any signs of being tired around 7:30/8pm?

[JennVanessa1083]

Haha oh man so you feel my pain and struggles! Right now I'm actually doing a gradual withdrawal method with naps bc when we first got back he refused to sleep in the crib. On our trip he was mostly sleeping in the car or on rare occasions in my arms. Anyways, I plan to go back to gentle weaning. Should I start even though he's teething. Last night he only woke up twice to eat but stirred 1.5 hrs after bedtime. He took an hour pm nap but I guess 3.5A before sleeping was too much and he was still OT I imagine from the bad nights.

Today the am nap was 36 minutes which is fine but the pm nap he woke up at 28 minutes (I resettled) but then he only slept about 1:13 before waking up fussy before falling asleep agin on my shoulder after waking up fussy ugh. So do I cut his A time a bit and start windown at 3.5 to be asleep by 3.75? can waking up again like this mean OT? Maybe laying down is too painful?

I think a major problem is A. Teething B. Too late of bedtime. I notice that he's so much more unsettled when he goes to bed past 8:30 pm which is why I had him on a 7:30-8:30 EASY. He doesn't show signs around 7:30-8 bc he's waking up later. Usually he's playing like crazy after dinner but then cries during most of our routine except for baths and when I'm nursing. Maybe OT? 

I'm going to aim for a 3.25A before bed tonight and see if that helps. It used to be if he napped for over an hour in the afternoon he would be fine with a 3.5A before sleep.

You're right it's hard to tell if he's trying to expand A times or he's just OT and teething sigh!

So this is what I'm doing tomorrow:

WU 8 am
S 11:15-11:45ish (3.25)
S 3:30-5ish pm (3.75)
BT 8:15-8:30 pm (3.5)

Does that sound ok? Only issue is that makes him have an 11.5 hour night. It may be too much for him right now. Last night he did a 10.5 night but his bedtime pushed to 10 so that's definitely a major reason.

[trimbler]

Hey Jenn so sorry, I'm back now but kind of hit the ground running and can't keep up! But just wanted you to know I haven't forgotten you, send more (((hugs))) and let Ginger continue with her fresh eyes and btdt, whilst I pop on when I can